Confused. Please Advice.

Here you may share how the words Eckhart Tolle have affected your life.

Re: Confused. Please Advice.

Postby Onceler » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:09 pm

Lunchbox,

Nice post on emotional investment. Talking about it in the context of work really makes sense to me. We are following a role and doing our job. I'm thinking that this may transfer outside of work as well. The rude guy on the sidewalk is maybe just following the "rude guy" role.....etc.

I don't remember where I read it, but it's stuck with me.....in the context of being offended by rude/aggressive behavior, a teacher asked if we would feel offended by a bear attacking us in the woods.....scared to death, of course, but we wouldn't hold it against the bear for being a bear, right?
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Re: Confused. Please Advice.

Postby Sighclone » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:57 am

Fore -

Nice kind words. (Threads have subtopics and little bunny-trails which meander around. Just like conversation...no blame.) Of course all traditions must contain a kernel of truth.

in accord with the laws of nature


Would these laws include the neurophysiology of the brain? If so, could a person "shortcut" the path with alternative techniques? You might be interested to view the work of Judson Brewer at Yale -- he used ten Theravadan Buddhists in a special study of brain function and fMRI...very impressive results: http://www.pnas.org/gca?submit=Go&gca=p ... 254&allch=
They are working on a neuro-feedback machine to signal when the mind is still.

some theoretical blanks.


The mind will want all theoretical blanks to be filled. The mind will then want enlightenment to happen to it. But there are an infinite number of theoretical blanks. Waiting and hoping for the final theoretical blank to appear and be filled is like waiting for the final current of all the water on the planet to be still. Like waiting for the final leaf to fall to the ground. I can assure you that the mind does not awaken. The mind is only the thinking machine. Sometimes it is whirring away, sometimes it is silent. When it is silent, where are you?

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Confused. Please Advice.

Postby smiileyjen101 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:34 am

I can't remember where or when I read it, but I recall ET discussing a crisis occurring when a lecturer, that ET admired greatly for his intellect, suicided. Having been raised to admire and pursue experiences using his intellect ET's shock and grief threw him into a confused panic - he had 'thought' that great intellect and striving for it = ... well, whatever he thought he would acquire through intellect and what he had invested in that relationship with the lecturer.

His line of questioning followed realising that something was erroneous in his calculation that x = y. That something other than intellect IS.

Just as he experienced utilising his great mind he also found not utilising his great mind. Now he balances using and not using it.

Just as he experienced no money and eventually awareness that it didn't define him, he also experienced lots of money, which some criticise, but he knows it does not define him either.


You are the answer to your question and confusion.
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Re: Confused. Please Advice.

Postby Fore » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:25 pm

Sighclone wrote: (Threads have subtopics and little bunny-trails which meander around. Just like conversation...no blame.)


I share your opinion, and as this seems a diversely intimate group, some topics can go off on different tangents and stir up emotions. The moderation here appears quite balanced.


Sighclone wrote: Would these laws include the neurophysiology of the brain? If so, could a person "shortcut" the path with alternative techniques?


The studies seem to be on merely Samadhi(mastery of the mind/concentration), this is not enough to break free from ignorance. Insight(seeing things clearly) is not about reaching some state of mind but purifying mind with the wisdom of experience. Mind is not contained solely in the brain. Mind exists in every sub-atomic particle.

I agree that mere theoretical knowledge is not enough, but I do find this subject of interest.

I saw a video just yesterday where Eckhart explained that after his "experience of enlightenment" 80% of his thinking stopped, huge gaps of awareness were available opposed to thinking. His "experience" must have been powerful enough to break the dam of Ignorance. Some individuals "experience" merely cracks the dam, no force can prevent the dam from eventually breaking but at the moment one cannot drink the water, although they know for certain the water is there.

Another analogy is a flash of lightening, one sees the gem on the path knows it is there but the light is now gone. Some defilements have been destroyed but some remain to veil the individual. Partial awakening.
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Re: Confused. Please Advice.

Postby KathleenBrugger » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:12 am

Onceler wrote:Lunchbox,

Nice post on emotional investment. Talking about it in the context of work really makes sense to me. We are following a role and doing our job. I'm thinking that this may transfer outside of work as well. The rude guy on the sidewalk is maybe just following the "rude guy" role.....etc.

I don't remember where I read it, but it's stuck with me.....in the context of being offended by rude/aggressive behavior, a teacher asked if we would feel offended by a bear attacking us in the woods.....scared to death, of course, but we wouldn't hold it against the bear for being a bear, right?

Lunchbox I enjoyed your post also. I have learned to detach, to stop taking things personally and it's really marvelous. I like your concept of seeing your job as a role to play and doing what is required without it meaning anything about you.

Onceler's bear story is perfect. ET wrote in TPON:
It always looks as if people had a choice, but that is an illusion. As long as your mind with its conditioned patterns runs your life, as long as you are your mind, what choice do you have? None. You are not even there. The mind-identified state is severely dysfunctional. It is a form of insanity. Almost everyone is suffering from this illness in varying degrees. The moment you realize this, there can be no more resentment. How can you resent someone’s illness? The only appropriate response is compassion.”


I think the whole human race is nuts and we're living in the equivalent of an insane asylum. Imagine being a nurse in that insane asylum. When you're walking down the hall and an inmate runs into you, you don't take that personally--the patient is nuts.
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Re: Confused. Please Advice.

Postby Lunchbox » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:51 am

KathleenBrugger wrote:Sounds like you are asserting your right to be here, which is a mark of self-esteem. But as I noticed as I worked through these issues with Arthur, sometimes I would get angry when I saw him (or thought I saw him) dominating me. It was as if I thought I needed the energy of the anger to assert myself. The more I practiced asserting myself, the more I learned that the anger was not an assist, it just created new problems. So I understand that you felt a negative emotion, and that can be the next thing to witness!


Well, I must admit that currently there's a lot of anger in many of my actions when it comes to interacting with people. Sometimes I can managed it, but sometimes I just can't. Sometimes I feel really upset; sometimes I feel like I'm about to cry right there in the moment. But somehow I'm confident that I'm heading on the right path. So whenever I'm socially interacting, my next goal is to spot this unnecessary anger right when it arises, and just feel it out, I guess.

KathleenBrugger wrote:
I think the whole human race is nuts and we're living in the equivalent of an insane asylum. Imagine being a nurse in that insane asylum. When you're walking down the hall and an inmate runs into you, you don't take that personally--the patient is nuts.


Haha. I love your point of view of the human race. :)
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Re: Confused. Please Advice.

Postby KathleenBrugger » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:15 pm

Lunchbox wrote:
KathleenBrugger wrote:I think the whole human race is nuts and we're living in the equivalent of an insane asylum. Imagine being a nurse in that insane asylum. When you're walking down the hall and an inmate runs into you, you don't take that personally--the patient is nuts.


Haha. I love your point of view of the human race. :)

Yeah, it does explain a lot doesn't it?!

I've started a list of examples of the insanity of the human race/American society, please add to it if you think of some good examples!

1. People spend $2 million on a watch or $50 million on a megayacht while a billion people live on less than one dollar a day
2. Nuclear weapons still exist; their limited use in a small war could end human life
3. An Andy Warhol painting of a Coca-Cola bottle sold for $40 million at Christies.
4. New York City spends more to keep a person in prison for one year than it would cost in tuition to send that person for 4 years at an Ivy League school
5. We value money and success and devalue service; this can be seen in the fact that actors earn millions while schoolteachers, firemen, and nurses get paid relatively little.

My signature refers to a book I wrote about human insanity, you can read the first four chapters for free here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/395 ... review.pdf
We are ALL Innocent by Reason of Insanity
http://kathleenbrugger.blogspot.com/
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Re: Confused. Please Advice.

Postby Fore » Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:36 am

KathleenBrugger wrote: please add to it if you think of some good examples!


6. Humans kill and eat animals and think this is OK, but think to kill and eat a human is not OK.

7. Humans lie and think they got away with it.

8. Humans steal from others and celebrate victoriously, but cry when they are stolen from.

9. Humans sleep with their neighbors husband, but get upset when their husband sleeps with the neighbors wife.

10. humans think they need to ingest poison to relax.
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Re: Confused. Please Advice.

Postby KathleenBrugger » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:37 pm

Fore wrote:
KathleenBrugger wrote: please add to it if you think of some good examples!


6. Humans kill and eat animals and think this is OK, but think to kill and eat a human is not OK.

7. Humans lie and think they got away with it.

8. Humans steal from others and celebrate victoriously, but cry when they are stolen from.

9. Humans sleep with their neighbors husband, but get upset when their husband sleeps with the neighbors wife.

10. humans think they need to ingest poison to relax.

These are great Fore! How about:

11. Violence is a good way to solve problems, particularly among nations (when we call it war).

12. Humans are separate from nature

13. Love is something special that has to be reserved for a select few people in your life.
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Re: Confused. Please Advice.

Postby rideforever » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:58 am

One story : yesterday a gigantic tibetan mountain dog attacked me and I was lucky to get away ... I happened to be above him on a hill; it was close.
Why ? Well I was really angry, I got teased by some idiot girl ... and it triggered a massive memory of being abused at home and humiliated by my family ... I got angry ... and the dog picked up on it.
I spent a few hours going back into that memory and feeling all those old wounds - to heal.
Some books I can recommend :

Paul Vereshack has a free book online
also
Jean Jenson, http://www.amazon.com/Reclaiming-Your-L ... 0452011698

Anyway, being present is good, but these problems don't go away through wishful thinking - that's my experience ... these 2 books show you how to clear out that stuff
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small
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Re: Confused. Please Advice.

Postby Lunchbox » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:59 am

rideforever wrote:Anyway, being present is good, but these problems don't go away through wishful thinking - that's my experience ... these 2 books show you how to clear out that stuff


But is it really necessary to clear out all that emotional baggage? I mean, if a person profoundly understands the ego's survival mechanism, and therefore is able to disidentified it, what happens to all this negative emotions/ pain body? In another words, do you need to forgive first then hop on into your true nature?

By the way, thanks for the book recommendations, never heard of them.
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Re: Confused. Please Advice.

Postby rideforever » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:36 am

Well the problems are that :

(a) people use ideas like "the present moment" to just blank out pain and the reality of their human self
(b) we need to find an effective way to harmonise all the different beings within us right across the spectrum from heaven to earth
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Re: Confused. Please Advice.

Postby SandyJoy » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:25 pm

KathleenBrugger wrote:
Lunchbox wrote:
KathleenBrugger wrote:I think the whole human race is nuts and we're living in the equivalent of an insane asylum. Imagine being a nurse in that insane asylum. When you're walking down the hall and an inmate runs into you, you don't take that personally--the patient is nuts.


Haha. I love your point of view of the human race. :)

Yeah, it does explain a lot doesn't it?!

I've started a list of examples of the insanity of the human race/American society, please add to it if you think of some good examples!

1. People spend $2 million on a watch or $50 million on a megayacht while a billion people live on less than one dollar a day
2. Nuclear weapons still exist; their limited use in a small war could end human life
3. An Andy Warhol painting of a Coca-Cola bottle sold for $40 million at Christies.
4. New York City spends more to keep a person in prison for one year than it would cost in tuition to send that person for 4 years at an Ivy League school
5. We value money and success and devalue service; this can be seen in the fact that actors earn millions while schoolteachers, firemen, and nurses get paid relatively little.

My signature refers to a book I wrote about human insanity, you can read the first four chapters for free here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/395 ... review.pdf


When I read this, I see how interesting it is that no matter how far we come as spiritually evolved we have not gotten any where really. When we continue to give value to money as something that has value, we are still not seeing the Truth. This view as stated above is still a belief in materialism.

In the Light of Truth it makes no difference who has what or how much or how little. In the Light of Truth the only Value Here is Something that is immutable and beyond 'things' which is also known as Awareness. To measure amounts of money is to still be caught in the belief that there is value in matter. Anything we can measure is not Real. What is Real has no measure or quantity.

In Truth "having" becomes an impossibility and "more or less" is also impossible. The Real is immeasurable. And God bless us all, This is What we Are; we are the Real and Everlasting Light, we are not a 'thing' that needs 'other things' in order be a richer or lesser Awareness as This Life I Am and you are.

When we know Who We Are we stop measuring 'things'. Measuring 'things' is a continuation of the illusion that 'things' have value and have more value when there is more of that thing. They don't have value, no matter how big or much we count of those 'things'.

Once we see this, we have broken the spell cast by 'things. We are free entirely from the "material view" as 'real'. We see clearly that there is nothing permanent or absolute about 'things'. They have no value no matter how many billions of those 'things' you can measure.

Things are powerless images within Awareness. It is Awareness that is the Eternal and Absolute Value and This Awareness is Unpossessed and cannot be measured out nor doled out by some system.

We'd solve the issue of "who has more then me" and "I want what they have" when we transcend the mistaken faith in 'things' as if there is a reality to "more or less" of them.

That 'more things" creates more value is pure fiction and then people are slave to that lie. If you want Real Equality then find the Light of Truth and you will have It.

Awareness, Life, Reality, Truth is already ours, it is Who and What we are. The Real has nothing to do with things that are not real, like money, it has to do with the Being of Who We Are, as Awareness Everyone has Equal Rights to This One Awareness, It cannot be doled out or measured out or usurped by presidents or bankers or priests. It is YOURS Now and It is the Only Value that is Real. Once you see this, you are home free and you do not care one tiny iota how much so and so has and how little the other guy has, there is no value no matter no matter how much or how little the 'things' we "have"--- Identity is nothing but God Itself and This is The All That Is Being All 'things' all images, all appearances within Awareness.

And to top it all off, this Awareness is not 'yours or mine' It is Unpossessed and Is The Living One beyond measure. It cannot be owned by "any body' --- It is Freedom from 'things' and It is Your Self. It is time we awaken to our Real identity. We are here in this experience to discover our Real identity so when we see beyond 'matter' and realize our Self Knowing Being, we are no longer hung up on all these divisive wars against the "have and have nots' ---that war is as bad as any war under any guise. A war propagated by powers and principalities who want to keep their false power in place.

That kind of belief that someone has more is still a belief in the fiction and perpetuates the lie and the lust and the self pity and whatever else grows out of giving 'things' value.

I say this all just to bring a little light of Truth so that we do not get involved in false division and wars brought against the 'rich' which seems now to be the 'new bigotry and discrimination' being foisted on people. The powers and false authorities (the real authority is within You) will continue to divide in order to conquer. You and I must stand with the Light of Reality if we honestly want to see the actual heaven here that is spread out before our eyes and that 'men do not see"--- We can no longer buy the crap that there are 'have and have nots' when in Truth neither are 'real'. If we want "them" to find the Truth then we must Live It first.

Do not participate in the game, even under the banner that you are doing this to help those who do not 'have' as much as others. That is a ruse. Just as the controlling powers want, that stance motivates people to continue the lie and keep those false authorities in power. There is no value in 'money', in things, in matter and form. Money is of no Real Value any more than any of the appearances here within This Awareness I Am.

Learn about limited light and Illimitable Light and Holographic images. Learn how Consciousness has no beginning, in not a 'thing' and how Mind transcends all things. Learn how the things we see as objective material are images within Awareness and then see that Awareness transcends all things and includes all the appearances of 'matter'. See how your Identity is not of this time-space-matter-world. Look into Identity as Unpossessed Awareness that is right here reading these words. This is Who You Are and there could not be enough gazzillions of dollars in the world that could ever out measure the Immeasurable, Immutable Light You Are.

If you want to help your world, and I know you do, then begin with God and God's Awareness, not with the 'things' within this Awareness. and keep foremost in mind that this Awareness is not a possession of yours, Awareness is God's and God's alone, the Only Real One Here being All There is to all that you are.
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Re: Confused. Please Advice.

Postby SandyJoy » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:59 pm

And then I need to add so this is not lopsided; Matter matters, but not as most think it matters. Yes, abundance is the Nature of God's Light and all things therein This Living Light. However, we need to See clearly how all 'things" manifest from the Attitude of Abundance, knowing We are Not Limited to or by the powerless material things. When we see the Truth, then there is no limit on how much is Here for Every One of Us.

You have to start with the Fact of All being All and All Inclusive. Not dividing, but Total. There is Plenty for All. When we see that the "things' are not the value, we find ourself with abundance of in all ways. The Heart knows what this means, the limited perspective that gives power to 'things' has a hard time seeing the Unlimited Bounty of 'things'---It is our divine heritage to have all we need, and sufficient unto the day.

No 'thing' will bring us the Unlimited Joy and Freedom that is beyond all things, but does not negate any 'thing'---Includes all 'things' and more than we can even fathom is ours.

This is just the opposite as a call for poverty or denial, this is a call BE All that you want to Be and that bounty will spread the Light to others so they too can have It All---in all ways, both material and spiritual.

The point being, that if we see It is all "appearances' we can manifest all we want. But, any statement that limits others to this Profound Abundance that is Their Heritage ---just perpetuates poverty and limitation.

You see what you Be and you manifest what is in the way you 'look at things'--- materialism is a limited view and manifests limited 'things'.
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Re: Confused. Please Advice.

Postby Sighclone » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:25 am

You see what you Be and you manifest what is in the way you 'look at things'--- materialism is a limited view and manifests limited 'things'.


Nicely put, Sandy.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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