interesting experience

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interesting experience

Postby runstrails » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:28 am

Hi gang,
Writing helps me get greater clarity so I thought it might be more appropriate to share in this section. I'm at a scientific conference and gave a talk today on some controversial stuff and was really grilled (in a not so very pleasant way) by a fellow scientist. He's done this before so I think he's either trying to show how smart he is (at my expense) or is out to get me. I think it's the former. For those of you who are mesmerized by science, you should know that the egos in science are pretty large and a lot of science is filtered by these egos. Anyway, the exchange got pretty testy (since I was not about to back down).
Now in the past, I would have felt humiliated and then depressed and run the exchange over and over in my mind and constructed doomsday scenarios. Today, I felt all those feelings rise up, and then I took a deep breath and reminded myself of my true nature and the illusion/maya in which all this is happening. Took time to realize again deeply the nature of things. Oh and since I'm being honest, before I did all this I bitched for 20 minutes about it with my friend thought minor revenge thoughts :wink:. Then I went for a run. Now, I'm about to go for dinner with that scientist (and many more) and intend to enjoy the illusion thoroughly (including the red wine and dark chocolate it comes with).
So that's how it goes nowadays. The conditioning of the personality is all there--but so is the clarity of Self and the ultimate realization that its all happening in maya.
Thanks for listening. I feel even better now that I've written it down :D.
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Re: interesting experience

Postby rachMiel » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:14 am

Great story, rt. :-) So cool that you can remain centered in rough seas.

Any chance you'd share what it was you talked about? (You've got me curious!)
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
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Re: interesting experience

Postby runstrails » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:19 am

Thanks, rach. You're a good friend. It was on really boring stuff to do with the effects of deprivation on the brain. I met him over dinner and we chatted. We agreed to disagree and I did listen to his points calmly and thought perhaps there might have been some merit to what he was saying. In retrospect, perhaps I could have been more tolerant. But given that this was the second time he was heckling me---I kinda just went on the defensive. In a way I'm glad I stood my ground too---I think he'll treat me with a little more respect next time. Its funny, I think women still get marginalized in the basic sciences.

Anyway, I could have done many things differently. I'll learn from this and yet not take it too much to heart. It so helps to know that its maya and to put it into context. This is not escapism--its just clear knowledge that it's a dream. One foot in both, Self and Maya :D. That's how it goes today.
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Re: interesting experience

Postby ashley72 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:31 pm

It helps to know its Maya? Really... and you believe that?

How is that helping.... So your mind can simply retreat to the knowledge it's all a dream.

To me that seems like an over-reaction to a normal human event.... two colleagues having a disagreement about something they're merely passionate about.

I'd feel more at peace if I also let the thought about "Maya" go as well!

I'm sure if you be more honest with your emotions, you should also subtlety detect that you'll be better off when you can just let go of all "spiritual" concepts as well. :wink:
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Re: interesting experience

Postby ashley72 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:52 pm

BTW, human suffering isn't about having a disagreement in the first instance. It's about the rumination of such an event. In other words, compulsively focused attention on the symptoms of one's distress.

Coming on this forum and verbalising your disagreement is a sign of rumination or human suffering. You're compulsively focused on your distress... it lingers. A sign you can't let go.

It is much like the same way an Agoraphobic who adds secondary fear to first fear. :wink:
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Re: interesting experience

Postby Onceler » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:09 pm

After the back and forth about whether life (maya) is an illusion and whether this is a helpful stance to take, I agreed with you there, Ash, it's not for me......but, I have to say that it looks like it was helpful in this case. You convinced me, Runstrails, that it works for you and I found this story compelling. I think it's fine to ruminate a bit over a dust up with another human being, especially one of this size, and realize you have made progress as your recovery time is faster and you really were not touched. I've noticed lately that my hurt and anger takes place in a larger context or broader space....as does everything else. In the larger context it just becomes less venomous and more interesting, no?

I had a much smaller scale encounter today and a similar hurt and realization that my recovery time was quicker. I walked into my favorite coffee shop and sat down at the only available table with my coffee. I didn't pay much attention to those around me as I was answering email on my phone. About 15 minutes later the woman beside me got up and as she walked past me to leave she hissed something about me never sitting beside her again. Astonished, I looked into a face full of rage as she said this......I looked at the woman on the other side of me and she just shrugged her shoulders and laughed and commented that apparently the woman really hated me!

I surprised myself by laughing, normally I would have been very hurt and angry and feeling very sorry for myself. After quickly reviewing my behavior I realized I hadn't done anything offensive and shrugged it off.....although the anger and spite lingered in the air for awhile. Somehow I wasn't triggered and now it's just a funny story, although I do feel sorry for the woman to be filled with that much anger and fear.

I felt like you let go, Runstrails, and hope you enjoyed your wine and chocolate.

Haters gonna hate, lovers gonna love.
Be present, be pleasant.
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Re: interesting experience

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:51 am

Thanks for sharing your tale RT there were likely a few triggers in your response, and it's wonderful that you can accept them all. It's not 'what' we do, or 'what' happens that matters, it is our relating to it, our perspectives of it. For me the 'illusion' is only that our perspective is the be all and end all of any 'thing, person or situation'.

Which is why I like ET's explanation that if we are making enemy, obstacle, means to an end of a thing, person or situation we have narrowed the view to that of an ego that thinks it is the be all and end all, and that the situation is as we believe it to be - rather than us just having a perspective of it, and that it permanently defines the thing, person or situation from that limited perspective, and us in the process.

(and obviously things, people and situations are never 'one' thing triggering that response, it's usually a complex combination eg - this dude has done this before, it's a conference of my peers, women are treated less seriously etc etc)

For me, believing in these narrow perspectives in this way is the only illusion going on. The physical is physically real, the interaction is relationally real and the 'issues' are relatively real by individual perspectives. They are not unchangeable, they are not permanent and they do not define who or what anyone/thing is.

When we come into this body we take on the physical aspects of it - we take on the limitations of it - we take on the blood and guts and clunky (even if really quite amazing) brain workings, we take on the impermanence and unreliabilities and limited perspectives, and experience the experiences of these limitations intimately as valid aspects of the 'all' of it.

To deny this is kind of making an enemy, obstacle, means to an end out of it (physical life) and the experiences that we are enabled to perceive and feed into our higher consciousness.

However if one can recognise that this is voluntary, and impermanent, one will not hold onto it to the point of experiencing and creation of resistance and suffering. Reconciliation of multiple aspects of a 'thing' occurs with the blending of and co-existence of the elements of it.

RT it is likely that your colleague also reviewed in retrospect - albeit you are not response able to dictate the how what why etc of that - it's his business.

The big bang created the potential for life - physical life - we have big or little bangs all the time as our experiences explode and collide with others', recognising them in gratitude and generosity allows us to participate fully in them in a less egoic (not completely not egoic because if that were true we would have or create no resistance for the energies to work with/out/in).


Onceler, your story is also interesting you didn't do anything offensive - you just '
didn't pay much attention'
to those around you :wink:
the woman beside me
.

Some people may have wanted your attention
Far from 'hating' you she may see/feel/know you as a catalyst for some thing she's working out/through/in.

although I do feel sorry for the woman to be filled with that much anger and fear

and she may feel emotional agitation for you to be so peaceful and loving.

Our interactions are never with those who cannot serve or be benefited by them. There are no coincidences that that was the only seat in the place :wink:
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com
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Re: interesting experience

Postby Onceler » Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:34 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:
Onceler, your story is also interesting you didn't do anything offensive - you just '
didn't pay much attention'
to those around you :wink:
the woman beside me
.

Some people may have wanted your attention
Far from 'hating' you she may see/feel/know you as a catalyst for some thing she's working out/through/in.

although I do feel sorry for the woman to be filled with that much anger and fear

and she may feel emotional agitation for you to be so peaceful and loving.

Our interactions are never with those who cannot serve or be benefited by them. There are no coincidences that that was the only seat in the place :wink:


You might be right.....but perhaps I unknowingly farted.
Be present, be pleasant.
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Re: interesting experience

Postby runstrails » Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:59 am

Onceler wrote:
You might be right.....but perhaps I unknowingly farted.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Ashley wrote:BTW, human suffering isn't about having a disagreement in the first instance. It's about the rumination of such an event. In other words, compulsively focused attention on the symptoms of one's distress.

Coming on this forum and verbalising your disagreement is a sign of rumination or human suffering. You're compulsively focused on your distress... it lingers. A sign you can't let go.

Yup, agree with this. Lots of rumination going on. It's what mind does and I recognize that. It'll ruminate for a few more days and then get preoccupied by something else. It's how it goes with this ego personality.

Ashley wrote:It helps to know its Maya? Really... and you believe that?.....I'd feel more at peace if I also let the thought about "Maya" go as well!
I'm sure if you be more honest with your emotions, you should also subtlety detect that you'll be better off when you can just let go of all "spiritual" concepts as well. :wink:

I disagree with you here, Ash. Maya in not a spiritual concept to me. It's clear knowledge that's always present. That knowledge is with me at all times, when things are going poorly and also when things are going well. For example, I'm passionate about travel to faraway lands. However, these days, I don't get such an ego boost when I travel exotic locations as I used to, because well, I have the understanding that it's all in Maya. I still love travel and do it often, its just not that big a deal anymore. So I don't just invoke it when there is a crisis. In fact, I've been thinking of adding it as a daily meditation of sorts! Assuming I ever actually get to a stage where I meditate daily.

Thanks, Jen for your ever wise words.
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Re: interesting experience

Postby alex » Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:39 am

Now in the past, I would have felt humiliated and then depressed and run the exchange over and over in my mind and constructed doomsday scenarios. Today, I felt all those feelings rise up


Nearly all of us have a little something called 'low self worth wounding', I had (may still have) a huge gaping wound of darkness and hurt and low self worth in the centre of my being. It sounds like that got touched in you. Life is great for exposing this wounding, we need to go there and be tenderly OK with that part of ourselves. To fully accept the broken-ness within. Making the the darkness OK can be a huge awakener and reveals so much depth in our being.
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Re: interesting experience

Postby runstrails » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:35 am

Wise words indeed, alex. Thanks :D.
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Re: interesting experience

Postby rideforever » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:59 am

First they ignore you.
Then they laugh at you.
Then they attack you.

Then ... they say they knew it all along.
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small
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