Dealing with my very unconscious, high temper dad

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Re: Dealing with my very unconscious, high temper dad

Postby Phil2 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:51 am

far_eastofwest wrote:
This guys whole identity as a father/husband is as a Provider of Money and Things so try and hook into this and mention often how great it is when you sit on the nice couch or get something given to you.


Right, the state of mind of 'rejecting' could be transformed in a sense of 'gratitude', and this would probably transform the relationship ... how could a sane relationship be founded on rejection of the other ? resistance ?

Clouded, Don't forget that your father, as a husband and father in a patriarchal society, feels responsible of the material wellbeing of his familiy, this is his 'identity' in which he is literally 'trapped' ... maybe he would also prefer to be free from this role and its constraints ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Dealing with my very unconscious, high temper dad

Postby Clouded » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:38 am

Thanks everyone for your input, I don't know if I can fully detach myself from my dad; his words and actions are toxic to me and I think it would be best for me to avoid interactions with him as much as possible rather than help him ''heal'' and get psychologically hurt in the process. Alas, I can't fully ignore him because that will press his buttons so I have to be a good daughter and force myself to interact with someone who I do not enjoy spending time with. I'm sorry but I have to rant some more...

Yesterday, I was driving with him and out of nowhere, a dog without an owner ran right in front of my car and I abruptly stopped (I was going like 20mph) just in time because if I didn't react quickly, I would've surely injured it and possibly kill it. I was shocked then relieved that I didn't hit it and worried about the dog's safety because it was just running freely in the streets and my dad got angry at me for stopping (which implied that he would have preferred that I ran over the dog) and even when I was looking through my side window to check if the dog was alright and not too close to my car so I can carry on, he yelled at me to pick up speed. He gave me this dumb speech that I should put family in first of a stranger's pet and that this dog's safety was none of business, it's the owners fault for not taking care of it and that I could have put his (my dad's) life in danger (which made no sense to me because it was the dog's life that was in threat not ours because we were protected by the car and everyone was slowing down because we were approaching an intersection.) I'm sorry, but I didn't want to be responsible for an animals' death, even if it wasn't mine, I cared about it and I cared about it's owner because no one wants to find out that their pet is roadkill, and if there is a way for me to prevent this, I would take it, it's not like I can just not give a fuck about living things and not feel remorse about it, injuring/killing it would have affected me in a VERY BAD way. What my dad told me made me sick to my stomach, he was disappointed in me because I stopped abruptly since I didn't want to run over it, what else was I to do???

His way of thinking disgusts me, I can't help myself, spending time with this man is killing whatever is left my spirit, I had to keep myself from crying in the car because I couldn't believe that he is so heartless and I asked him if he wants me to turn the car around and kill it, wondering if that would make him happy and proud of me for doing as I am told, it was "joke" of course. I wish I didn't know his thoughts, they disturb me, sometimes I wish that I could be deaf so I wouldn't have to hear the crap that comes from his mouth, ignorance is bliss.
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: Dealing with my very unconscious, high temper dad

Postby Phil2 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:41 am

Clouded wrote: I wish I didn't know his thoughts, they disturb me, sometimes I wish that I could be deaf so I wouldn't have to hear the crap that comes from his mouth, ignorance is bliss.


I don't see you as being "impeccable with your word" here Clouded ... moreover you appear to take all this personally and emotionally ... are you sure you make the best you can to solve the conflicts with your family ?

??
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
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Re: Dealing with my very unconscious, high temper dad

Postby Clouded » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:54 am

Phil2 wrote:
Clouded wrote: I wish I didn't know his thoughts, they disturb me, sometimes I wish that I could be deaf so I wouldn't have to hear the crap that comes from his mouth, ignorance is bliss.


I don't see you as being "impeccable with your word" here Clouded ... moreover you appear to take all this personally and emotionally ... are you sure you make the best you can to solve the conflicts with your family ?

??


Like I said, I can't help feeling that way. I wish it didn't bother me but it does because I am against the killing of innocent animals. I can't just get rid of emotions in a blink of an eye. There are words that come out of my dad's mouth that I can brush off easily and there are others that I can't.
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: Dealing with my very unconscious, high temper dad

Postby Phil2 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:07 pm

Clouded wrote:I can't just get rid of emotions in a blink of an eye.


Right, as Eckhart said we always have 2 chances to surrender: the first one is when something happens, then we can immediately surrender (or accept) to the fact of what happens ... but if we fail to surrender, and when we trigger an emotional reaction to 'what is', a 'resistance', then we have a second chance to surrender: it is the acceptance (and awareness) of our emotional state in this present moment ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Dealing with my very unconscious, high temper dad

Postby smiileyjen101 » Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:45 am

Clouded, your Dad is doing the best he knows how, within his awareness, capacity and willingness. You are the one judging that and finding it lacking - how could he not feel the truth of this?

The incident with dog - his fears for his safety (and possibly yours too) was uppermost in a moment of fright where he was not in 'control' or in any position to do anything about it.

I don't know if I can fully detach myself from my dad; his words and actions are toxic to me and I think it would be best for me to avoid interactions with him as much as possible rather than help him ''heal'' and get psychologically hurt in the process. Alas, I can't fully ignore him because that will press his buttons so I have to be a good daughter and force myself to interact with someone who I do not enjoy spending time with.


I agree with Phil that you're participating in and building on the drama, absolutely within your own awareness, capacity & willingness to BE love, or fear yourself.

If in doubt, breathe out. That's how you get rid of the toxins you're holding onto and taking into your self.

You are not responsible for the words, thoughts and actions of others, only your own. At some point you'll real-ise this.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Dealing with my very unconscious, high temper dad

Postby Mariposa » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:47 am

Hi Clouded,

I found your post after coming here to vent about my own situation with my husband, who's also been having outbursts lately. But my father has also been like yours many times, so I feel your pain. I am now 27 and haven't seen him in over 3 years, because I moved to a different country, but I miss him a lot.

One of our worst moments was when he was teaching me how to drive, and when we worked together. He has seen me cry and not even that stopped him from yelling at me, he even locked the door one time to make sure I wasn't able to leave and free myself from the situation, I had to call my mom who came really quick and was also scared to just take me out of there, so we stayed and eventually it was over, still quite traumatic.

I don't know why but some of us, actually, many many of us, have come to this world to experience violence.

When I was a christian I learned about the Devil, but after the age of 17 I stopped believing he existed, along with everything else that religion teaches. Now that I know about the pain body, I actually believe the pain body is the Devil, and people can actually be "possessed" by it. We can clearly see it when people get angry and say hurtful things to us (let alone those who become physically violent).

The best thing we can do is to not take things personally. When you hear these words coming from your dad, it's not really your dad, it is the pain body, it's like a demon. I know this may sound crazy, but I have come to see it this way. Of course the words will be mean, they are a demon, they are made of pain, anger, and the like.

I remember a time when my relationship with my dad was such that I had to do my best to avoid spending time with him. Getting into arguments was so easy, that the only solution was really to avoid him! I did not want to get hurt, I always took things personally because of course it mattered to me what my dad said and thought about me, and it still does. The only difference is now I live so far away from him, but for all I know, nothing has changed. Even on skype he made me cry not too long ago, that's how much I still care about what he thinks of me. They are our family, our ego is attached to theirs, our identity has a lot to do with them, we can't help it. You can be aware that whenever he talks to you that way, it's his pain body, and when you feel hurt by it, it's your pain body too, because really, the pain body is universal, and there's no "you" and "your dad", we could say it's the pain body expressing itself through the both of you. You can use the situation to wake up a little bit more, become a little bit more aware of who you truly are, allow the peace from within to be the MAIN experience, like a tree, which remains grounded to its roots even when the wind blows making the leaves shake.

Thank you for sharing your experience on here, I know I appreciated it.
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Re: Dealing with my very unconscious, high temper dad

Postby Clouded » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:26 am

Hi Mariposa,

I am glad that we can relate to each other since we were both raised by violent fathers and we know what it's like to come home and feel threatened when we should feel loved and accepted by someone who was (for as long as we remember) and still is considered to be very important in our lives. I know that it is not really him who is acting out on those negative impulsive thoughts but it is always painful to witness his angry outbursts towards me, I always let his energy influence my own as I always had. I do feel that I have more control over my reactions now that I know that he is just a ''vacuum'' in which thoughts, feelings and actions are created and expressed, but the fact that he doesn't know that he is the Observer and thus still believes that whatever arises in his mind originates from the real him and is the truth, bothers me and there is nothing I can do about that because he has to come to these conclusions on his own and I believe that he never will because he is into it too deep and he refuses my "spiritual guidance". Thank you for your words of encouragement though, we do need to make peace with the things that we cannot change and let them be as they are.
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: Dealing with my very unconscious, high temper dad

Postby Phil2 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:52 am

Clouded wrote:
I am glad that we can relate to each other since we were both raised by violent fathers and we know what it's like to come home and feel threatened when we should feel loved and accepted by someone who was (for as long as we remember) and still is considered to be very important in our lives.


Did you ever question why most fathers at some point or other become violent or abusive with their family, wife and children ? Don't you think that fathers might feel 'trapped' in a model of society which institutes a "patriarchal model" where men have to endorse such responsibilities ?

Personally I do not consider the "patriarchal model" as a natural one ... this model is founded on the assumption that men must have total control on their family and bear the responsibility for their material (and financial) well-being, which implies a huge responsibility that maybe most men are not ready to accept (unconsciously) ... most religions have backed this model by all kind of restrictions, particularly on women's sexual activity outside marriage (which would imply a loss of control of men on children engendered outside of marriage) and also restrictions on women's basic freedoms (right to work, right to vote, even right to possess a 'soul') ... which institutes dependance of women on men ...

I don't see how this world could know any peace as long as half of humanity is considered to be inferior (or under control/dependant) to the other half ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
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Re: Dealing with my very unconscious, high temper dad

Postby bluecover » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:49 pm

I feel you @Clouded! I'm a 17 year old guy, that also lives with a very unconscious father,

My father used to beat the sh*t out of me (for the smallest things! It is incredible! One day he had an outburst and destroyed all my little brother toys because my lil brother broke a small cabbage my father had bought, in half (he was like 4, 5 years old at the time, so I can't understand why react in that way towards a small kid that didn't even knows what he does!)), he doesn't beat me up anymore though, because I'm 17 years old and 1,92 meters/6.3 feet tall but i still hear lots of trash once in a while (he knows that I don't care about his insults and offensive language, and that I won't react to it, so..).
He never speaks with me, and I don't neither.
I don't know why he hates me so much, but since I was a kid he never really spoke with me. We don't even say "hello" to each other, nor "Good Morning" or "Good Afternoon".
Nothing. It's a weird relationship. When he opens his mouth, he opens it to tell me how idiot I am, how stupid, how scumbag of a son he had, how much he regrets having me as his son.

I really don't care anymore, and in a way, his unconsciousness made search for the opposite, so the fact that he is the way he is and because he made suffer so much, made go find and encounter this way of living in the present moment, this joy of living.

Alexander Graham Bell said, "When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us".

Use the time you spent with your dad as a time of practice. Remain present, don't answer to many of the words and actions he says and does. Remain present and don't say "philosophical questions or answers" like I do too (xD), because it will certainly piss him off even more. Remember the ego wants to be right, so don't try. Just let him be, and let things calm down.

He keeps screaming? Well, here some advice Eckhart Tolle gives in his book "New Earth": Pretend to be invisible. Is that simple. Pretend that the sound just goes through you. There is nothing there to receive it, it just goes though the air and disappears..It goes through you, it's that simple :)

Always remember that when he is unconscious, he's not being himself.

I too have to deal with such high temper dad, and It has been a freaking living hell these last years, i thought about suicide a few years back (Long story), but thank god I found Eckhart Tolle.

Hope you are having a day full of happiness and joy,

Andrew.
Last edited by bluecover on Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:45 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Dealing with my very unconscious, high temper dad

Postby smiileyjen101 » Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:08 am

Bluecover said: I don't know why he hates me so much, but since I was a kid he never really spoke with me. We don't even say "hello" to each other, nor "Good Morning" or "Good Afternoon".


Bluecover, Clouded and Mariposa - 'something happened', and at this time we do not know what it is/was. If we assume we do know we will make choices that are 'off' the mark, that will not improve situations. We will be 'assuming'.

Holding space that 'something happened' needs no enemy, no resistance, no response -just the space for the naturally unfolding responses to be.

Of course, that's 'energetically'. Physically yes more 'space' might be needed to ensure physical safety.

As ET says the only sane responses to anything are - accept, change where it is within our capacity (not assume or presume for another), or remove yourself from the situation.

Neale Donald Walsch's 'god' says everyone is acting within their own awareness, capacity and willingness and to each was given 'free will', which is merely a universal agreement that 'I would not presume to choose for you.'

To 'presume' to choose for another brings its own naturally unfolding consequences - we resist and fight against 'what is'.

There but for grace, go I.

Grace is just 'what is'.

What has been and how it has been interpreted, is a solo journey, each according to their own knowledge.

So one cannot in truth 'blame' another for how they are, or how they behave, we can only be aware of how we perceive it, within our own 'knowledge'.


Learning to do that wisely --- well, that's a 'life' :D
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Dealing with my very unconscious, high temper dad

Postby bluecover » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:00 am

Yes but why react to such olive-sized situations or the so called "problems"? I don't understand!
Someone left the lights open: Boom. Starts breaking dishes to showhow angry he is.
In my house there have been 3 doors half broken because my father like to show how freaking angry he is because oh! someone forgot to take out the trash and other little things! What the hell? Seriously :(
Last edited by bluecover on Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dealing with my very unconscious, high temper dad

Postby dijmart » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:43 am

bluecover wrote:Yes but why react to such olive-sized situations? I don't understand!
Someone left the lights open: Boom. Starts breaking dishes to showhow angry he is.
In my house there are 3 doors half broken because my father like to show how freaking angry he is because oh! someone forgot to take out the trash! What the hell? Seriously :(


I sympathize. My biological mom is an angry alcoholic, dealt with it my whole life. She's called me every name in the book and some made up names and accused me of just about every thing. What you realize after.. uhh, how old am I?...44 yrs is that you can do nothing to change that person (well, I learned that many yrs ago, but still "wished" it would happen). You can only change your inner state, rest in the consciousness that you are, that will give you the peace you wish was coming from your dad. If you were older I would say move out, but that probably isn't an option. So, be present as often and as much as possible and when you realize you weren't present in a situation recognize and acknowledge it, without judgement. You always have another opportunity.
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Re: Dealing with my very unconscious, high temper dad

Postby smiileyjen101 » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:06 am

Yes but why react to such olive-sized situations? I don't understand!

You are absolutely right!! YOU don't understand. What is 'olive sized' to you may not be to another, it may be overwhelmingly huge.

You are not standing under their awareness, their experiences, the interpretations that another is standing in, with and under.

Therefore there is no blame, not in someone reacting as they do, or in you not understanding why they are.

What you have said there - is true - hold that uppermost - you do not understand (another's behaviour). You can even say to your heart - I do not understand.

Then give yourself a break for not understanding, and at the same time for the other who is 'standing' in that behaviour - awarely or not.

At some point you may react just as passionately, just as seemingly insanely and you won't be aware of it either.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Dealing with my very unconscious, high temper dad

Postby bluecover » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:53 am

And how can I help my little brother not to suffer? :(

I do accept most of my father extreme behaviors, and I don't really respond to his provocations, but what happens when it's my little brother turn to get "assaulted"?
He is little so he is very vulnerable to my father extreme reactions. So first question, If my father beats my brother up because he broke a cup of glass accidentally (for example), should I get into the middle of the situation and protect my little brother or just accept what is and let him suffer? Talking with my father won't do much. Really, it's useless, his reactions are instantaneous and irreversible.

My brother does get very affected relatively to what my father says to him. He cries and feels frustrated because there is nothing he can do to counter my father's words and he feels very bad about himself because coming from his father figure, it really affects him! , so second question, how can I help him not to feel that way and just understand that that is not the father reacting, but just his unconsciousness?

Relatively to these very unconscious father figures - it is as it is- and we just got to accept it eh? Because this is bad not just for the children and wives, but to themselves too, causing suffering to one self and to others at the same time. Even if there is someone in the family that accepts and understands the extreme behaviour, others still suffer.

Kind Regards, Andrew.
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