Consciousness vs. Thought

Here you may share how the words Eckhart Tolle have affected your life.

Consciousness vs. Thought

Postby ellen_ » Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:33 am

Hi

I have discovered Eckhart Tolle an hour ago and have so far read only but a couple of his quotes. And still...they were so powerful I immediately sought up this forum because I felt a strong need to share my experience. And because there are still so many fears and unanswered questions for me.

One of his quotes touched me in particular:
''When you recognize that there is a voice in your head that pretends to be you and never stops speaking, you are awakening out of your unconscious identification with the stream of thinking. When you notice that voice, you realize that who you are is not the voice - the thinker - but the one who is aware of it''.

When I read that I felt relieved because that is exactly what I am finally able to do after so many years on this planet. I was drifting in all directions without being in control of my life or conscious that I truly can have an impact on my state of being. It is only slowly and after having gone through difficult times that I understood that there is more to life (than ''the thinker'').

Now the true reason of why I am writing is: it's all so very new to me that it scares me. I still can't believe that it's possible (what is described in the quote). I still can't believe I am able to do it and am amazed at the changes it brought on in my life. I feel like someone could take that ability away again and I'd go back to the ''old me''. I mean, after all that is who I have been almost all of my life. The ''thinker'' voice I am now able to notice tells me ''this is crazy, you are crazy, this is not normal''.

Is there anyone else new (or old:) to this, who could share their experience regarding this? As said.....this is so very new and fresh that I am overwhelmed. I feel like I suddenly have way too much power over my life and don't deserve it or something like that.

Thank you very much
Warm Greetings
Ellen
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Re: Consciousness vs. Thought

Postby rachMiel » Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:03 pm

You took the red pill! ;-)

I remember when I first saw that there was ultimately no one driving the vehicle of me. I was terrified to the bones, then shortly after felt deeply liberated.

Relax, enjoy. And stay present. :-)
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
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Re: Consciousness vs. Thought

Postby viking55803 » Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:52 pm

The most interesting thing you said is that you have gone through some difficult times. Eckhart often says that personal suffering is a great spiritual teacher, and I think he is right about that. It is often only then that we are receptive to this message.

By the way, be sure to check out Eckhart Tolle on YouTube - there are dozens and dozens of short and long videos of Eckhart giving presentations. I think you will find that this is not some "snake oil" slick salesman - in fact, ET often says he is not asking anyone to "believe" anything, but rather simply experience this for themselves. He is not a guru - he is simply a teacher whose personal experience lead him to an "awakening."

Very pleased you found this forum!

Peace,
Gary
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Re: Consciousness vs. Thought

Postby ellen_ » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:37 pm

Thank you rachMiel. It comforts me to read you because This is how I still feel too:

rachMiel wrote:I remember when I first saw that there was ultimately no one driving the vehicle of me. I was terrified to the bones


And thank you Gary, I agree with every word you say.
viking55803 wrote: He is not a guru - he is simply a teacher whose personal experience lead him to an "awakening."
This is something I felt right away and what drew me to this man.

The thing is, everyone with any kind of awakening that brought on changes in their life will feel like sharing it with others, helping others etc (all of the gurus). BUT few peoples awakening is as ''pure'' as the one Tolle speaks of. Does that sound weird? I feel that few of them (gurus, awakened people) are able to fully act out of the awareness. Most of them cannot get rid of the patterns of I (after all how can you make money as a businessman if you have no image, reputation, pattern in real world. Everything is based on that. And many spiritual teachers, guru's these days ends up as a ''businessman''....their business being the selling of ''awakening products'' online).

So basically, what I admire about him is how Tolle manages to be ''out of this world'' and still being in it. There are the gurus that are ''in this world'' selling products but are unable to make it a good business without creating a certain image and patterns of themselves (end up contradicting themselves sometimes) and then there are those who manage to attain 100% awakened state and are ''out of this world'', they found their inner peace, are happy but are in no way able to do what Tolle is doing (getting the word out to millions of people) because they are not connected enough to the realities of life.

Example: I have a friend who is writing, teaching like Tolle but her approach is out of the world in the sense that she published a website and is not advertising it ''those who need it will find by themselves. Marketing, mainstream media etc is the devil, it indoctrinates people, I don't want to have anything to do with that etc.'' she says. I disagree.
Tolle was telling anecdotes about how in the beginning there would only be one person at his workshop. Wouldn't it have been sad if he sat there and ''waited'' for things to happen, for people to come without doing anything and only a hundred people would have access to his teachings today instead of millions for instance?

viking55803 wrote:I think you will find that this is not some "snake oil" slick salesman.
. This is exactly it and I felt it right away. But some, do accuse him of that. And because of the fact that most ''awakened '' people such as my friend don't want to be accused for such things and want fame even less, their teachings remain unheard.

Now as I was saying, I am really new to this and may not be using the right words or putting it in a too simplistic way. But I mentioned in my first message that this new awareness I had made me feel more powerful ( in control of my life) and that this scared me. I do understand why and am trying to explain it here...That is because once one has managed to reach that awakened state one can enjoy life ,yes but I can not just enjoy life in my little secluded house ,being aware and in the present myself while seeing what is going on in the ''real'' world. And I think after what Tolle went through in his twenties, he couldn't either. Even though his spirituality and state of mind is completely self sufficient and he does not need the worldly, external pleasures to make him happy, he DID see it as a necessity to spread his teachings even though that would mean loss of privacy etc etc.

What I am ultimately trying to say is that over the past years my only goal was to make my loved ones happy,as well as as many people as I can by adding value to the world, by doing something meaningful (ever since I went through these difficult moments), it felt like it was my ''calling'' to make others understand the beauties of life and HOW lucky and grateful we should be to have just what we have, make them understand that there is an abundance of possibilities and that most of the time we are, ourselves, the ones hindering ourselves to achieve what we want. That was all happening on a subconscious level and this development was still at odds with the ''realities of life'', (what others expect of me: finding a good job etc. being successful in the ''real' material' world). You can compare it to the moment of ''bliss'' Tolle experienced after he got out of his difficult times and then just traveled being grateful, aware, happy. Nothing was as quick, drastic and sudden for me as it was for Tolle (change over night). It was a long painful development and I got to where I am today through personal experience. It was only when I started feeling the change that I reached out for books to understand what is happening and was so amazed that my convictions and beliefs that I didnt get out of books but through life experience (whats important in life etc), that these convictions matched those of so many other people, such as Tolle.

viking55803 wrote:By the way, be sure to check out Eckhart Tolle on YouTube - there are dozens and dozens of short and long videos of Eckhart giving presentations.


This is what I did and it felt so good to hear explained what is happening inside of me. I am getting of topic because I felt like sharing a bit more of my experience but what I am ultimately trying to get to and which is the reason of the fears and doubts I have: what do you do once ''awakened'', once having discovered that you are not the thinker and have much greater power over your life than you thought you had? What do you do? I am in this world for a quarter of a century and feel like I ''missed'' a lot of my life having spent it in my ''conscious cage'' (in my own words before running into Tolle, I used to describe it as ''having been in a cage'' most of my life and gradually getting out of it while becoming more and more aware. I do feel like I wasted a lot of time but at the same time am sooooooo gateful because I know that some people take a much longer time or never get to experience more of life than the tip of the iceberg, the thinker.

My problem is that (as to ''what to do with that power'') you can make the choice to either act like my friend I mentioned earlier, who won't advertise her website. Even though she too has great ideas and teachings, I feel like there are not closely enough visitors and she is keeping her ideas unreachable to most which is more than a pity. And then you can chose to do what Tolle did, reaching out for the world with allll the downsides such as many people wont understand ( I did have that impression reading the Youtube comments), other take him for a sneaky salesman,even make fun, and of course he lost his privacy. I don't think that having access to his inner world, he really NEEDED all this in the outer world and he still did it. That I guess is because he felt grateful for his experience and the only reason he shared was an inner urge to help others too. That is the reason why he feels, seems, looks so genuine and sincere.

One thing is admiration, the other thing is understanding HOW he managed to do it. I don't think it is very easy to balance this inner and outer world. Especially when it is completely new. I feel like there are two poles: the spiritual people who do not reach out as much and you DO learn from them because they are naturally ''great'', their behaviors are impressing people (how are they so positive etc) and one learns. But these people are still very rare in real every day life. Most are absorbed by the thinker and their whole lives consist of running around restlessly, possessed by their thoughts and never in the present moment. I had that too...I was not able to control my thoughts AT ALL. I was unable to go for a walk because I was always afraid where my thoughts would take me and could not control them and chances were always great theyd take me back to the stuff Im trying to usually not think of. I think most people identify with the thinker. And what I am trying to say is that those spiritually awakened, being rare in ever day life, and also BECAUSE they do not look out to spread the word enough, are not heard enough (just like my friend and her website).They mostly believe that people will learn from them naturally, by observing their behavior and wanting to know more. They believe that people will ''find them'' when the right moment has come etc.´

I dont know but, as said, I don't think that Tolle sat in his workshop with one person and waited till people come to him in the right moment, he also wasn't happy with impacting just the couple people he happened to meet and the rest time live his awakened presence without sharing. Basically, awakened people do not need external sources to make them happy while non akawened ''sleeping'' people try to find bliss in the outer world, become famous, known, approved of........and are the ones accessible to MOST PEOPLE, this is normal life, those are the ones to look up to ''they made it'', they are rich (they are supposed to be happy).

Coming back to the ''being scared of the new awakening I am Now able to experience'' The reason is that To me, what is going on in the world seems like a vicious circle. Everything is perfectly clear: we, as humanity, do not have the right values, the key to happiness lies in in another place than the material world. Only (maybe its just me) I have the impression 99& of people in this world do not understand that. And that there are not closely enough people getting out the word like Tolle does. And the vicious circle consist in the fact that We think success and money will make us happy -> We live a superficial life, not living the present moment thinking we can only be happy after having achieved a certain goal -> We achieve that goal we are still not happy wanting more -> and more, which is great means -> Success (eg. a millionaire businessman) -> Fame -> Mainstream Media gets the word out -> People admire, aspire to that glamorous life -> Are sure money will make them happy -> Act in the same way -> Some are too absorbed in the past to become successful and die -> Others manage to concentrate on the future, become successful -> Like their idol they saw on TV -> Get rich -> etccccc. ALL of that in a circle. And then pretty rarely there are drop outs of the circle of unconscious reality. Why did they drop out? WELL because for instance Tolle says he went through depression. What happens during depression? You realize that everything you believed is true is not. (You are still the same person but the apple that tasted great now has no taste. The TV show you loved, you now dont understand.) You understand that it is your mind that makes external reality what it is for you. Such things shape you, you fall out of the circle because you've experienced something so deep that it made you understand that there is more than the reality, the ''thinker'' , the unconscious mind, the tip of the iceberg, more than that..............And so they suddenly become interested in the spiritual things, in happiness elsewhere in the material world (because the material things that always made them happy, didnt during depression and that was WOW). Does that make sense. I know all of this might seem confusing but there is an idea behind it all.

And here is what I think has to be done ( I dont know how and when its gonna happen but its the only way to ''save the world'', really, as Einstein would say ''The fate of humanity is entirely dependent upon its moral development'' )........And here is , in my opinion, the only way in which this can be done

This vicious circle I described earlier, needs to be replaced by another set of values. Everything the 90% of people think will make them happy (material things), needs to be replaced with what really will make them happy (spiritual things, awareness). It will happen sooner of later, nature, world, everything will suffer so bad that people will understand that need and get back to spirituality (there is no other way except from : the end of the world and destruction of the planet). But why wait for another 100 years? Why not recognize this now and 'accelerate'' this process? The problem is that ''religion'' has now often such a negative connotation that people won't want to hear of it. This is why I like Tolles approach, he's not using the expression ''spirit'' and he does not force anyone to believe anything, he only teaches to become aware of oneself.

THAT IS what everyone else should do too! ''But what can I do on my own against the cruelty of this world'' says half the population. Or ''Mainstream media is evil'' and they seclude themselves and live their awakened life................
I am sorry but from my quarter of decade of experience in this world, this is what I have observed. Those two poles exist. And the only solution is to use the ''medium'' of the unawakened people to get through, to get to them, like Tolles does. Just as mainstream media is now dominated with wrong values, it should be once dominated with right values (or nothing at all because having material values means destruction of the world).

As crazy as it sounds........it IS POSSIBLE. And its good and nice to say '' Yea but forcing it upon people is not the right way'' .Well great then let material values be forced on them, like it happens every day on Tv, on the radio, in magazines...... Is that better? And then sit there and say ''Well, it's gonna come to them'' (Yea. Maybe, to 10% of the population).

What you NEED to understand is that you are not forcing anything on anyone by sharing for instance Tolle's spiritual beliefs. All you do is allowing them to find their inner self and make them understand that they are more than the ''thinker'', teach them to be in control of their lives. That also means, since there is no ''forcing a belief'' on someone, there is no name or label to this.......you have nothing to feel bad about. All you do is what great people have done in the world so far.....''don't look for success but rather be of value'' as said Einstein (who is someone I really look up to, my own ''spiritual teacher' ;) prior to discovering Tolle).

Now that was rather a long explanation of why I was ''scared'', and you must be crazy for having read till here. I'm am so thankful for that. This is the first time I signed up on a forum and of course sharing such ''complicated'' ideas is at first hard to express it all without getting lost (especially using the right words to be understood). What scared me was these two ''poles'' I felt like acquiring such an amazing power when finally learning that thoughts don't have to control me. I am scared because I find it difficult to find balance between this newly acquired power of living the present moment AND at the same time seeing what is going on in the world. I strongly believe that the solution as unrealisable as it may sound, is really to use the medium of the population to as quickly as possible awaken as many people as possible. Why do you think Tolle is on Oprah? Certainly not for fun or attention!!! WHY is it that over all these years of my life, the few awakened people I have met, believed that it's perfectly fine to live in the present moment and doing something more would be ''forcing it upon another''? I am really sorry if I offend anyone in this forum. I am really talking only out of experience and that is 5% of great awakened people who have never bothering sharing anything with me......it is only when I came to them yeaaars later that I realized wow....they always knew it, why didnt they share more. Why is Tolle taking the pain of traveling, teaching, getting on all this media and other think its fine to just be awakened, in tune with nature etc. Isn't that like living in an alternative life, ignoring what is really going on? Like my friend publishes a website with great ideas but her out of the world approach drives no visitors. ''They''ll come when its the right moment'' (?????)

This is my dilemma: People fight, try to prove something on someone, force their beliefs on others, wouldnt it just be beautiful of instead making them realise who they really are, so that they can be fully conscious, control their thoughts and take rational action? ''Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts'' said Einstein. Why dont we do more to enable people to do this? This is my dilemma with this newly acquired power. It is such a bliss, such a chance to have it, why not share it? That is all I always wanted and am doing. I want to add value to the world. Not keep it to myself.

Here is what sums it all up: Why is it that people who value material things, ''achieve it all'', are in the mainstream media, influence most other people who do the same =value material things again and so it goes (the vicious circle)? Why do most spiritual people don't understand that you need to use the medium of the people, their language, anything you can to awaken them too. WE are the ones who can change something.....''we are God'' I think Tolle said. It is great to live in the present moment, and connect with nature and be a good person. But imagine every single person, even in this forum.....the thousands of people, made it their higher mission to ''awaken other people''. Because it IS a higher mission. The fate of humanity is entirely dependent upon its moral development'' as said Einstein, as said earlier.

Don't you think we could do much more?The only scary thing at first, is finding that balance that Eckhart found between the inner and the outer world (the awareness and the patterns of I, I think he'd say). But he did it.....and everyone should do the same, I strongly believe that we are the change, we are the world......Or as Tolle would say ''You are here to enable the divine purpose of the Universe to unfold. That is how important you are!''.

I don't feel like I'm still ''young and innocent'' and don't understand how complicated things really are and dont understand the hardships. That is not the case. Everything is simple Tolle reached out to millions of people, as said, just do the same. It is a higher mission, no? What will happen to the world in a hundred years if we sit there enjoying the present without helping others?
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Re: Consciousness vs. Thought

Postby rachMiel » Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:32 am

rachMiel wrote:I remember when I first saw that there was ultimately no one driving the vehicle of me. I was terrified to the bones
ellen_ wrote:Thank you rachMiel. It comforts me to read you because This is how I still feel too:

Stick with it!

Think of it this way: If there's ultimately no-one/no-thing (self, soul, etc.) in control of the Ellen organism, there's no one to blame, no one to feel guilty or inadequate, nothing to worry about. What a relief! :-)
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
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Re: Consciousness vs. Thought

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:47 pm

Hi Ellen,

You speaking of awakening and a global movement toward awakening of the planet reminds me of a book I'm reading at the moment called 'I Am the Word' by Paul Selig. Paul has a skill where he allows Source energy to speak through him. This energy describes itself as the Ascended Masters who have been guiding mankind for thousands of years. They say they are deliberately increasing the conscious frequency of the planet to avoid a catastrophe on Earth. This is why so many are awakening. The book is a workbook they have dictated to Paul to guide us to develop our consciousness and to spread this to others through the mechanisms they describe. The book is written on two levels, one of intellectual understanding, and another in frequency where they fill the words with higher energy which the reader then aligns to in order to accelerate their spiritual growth. If, like I was, you are a little sceptical about Paul as a channel of some Godlike beings, I'd recommend his interview of afterlifetv. He channels on there so you get to see it first hand. Paul also comes across as a wonderfully gentle human being. It is my belief that this book is rapidly accelerating my own growth as I have had several large 'shifts' since I began reading it.

Whether you choose to look into this or not, I'd like to thank you for sharing your revelations here. It's so wonderful that so many are waking up in their own way. I too feel a sense of obligation to aid others, though we must be wary of where this obligation is coming from. King ego will do anything to remain in power. From the 'no doer' space the right action will arise without anyone needing to feel in control of it. I guess you'd call that Faith..

Much Love,

Jack
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Re: Consciousness vs. Thought

Postby Phil2 » Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:14 pm

ellen_ wrote:
Don't you think we could do much more?


And this is the problem, thinking you can 'do' something ... and who thinks this ? ego of course, ego who always wants to be in control, to achieve, to become more, to inflate its self image ... but there is no 'doer' ... things just happen ... all you can 'do' is to 'allow' those things to happen ... and indeed they happen ... no need for a 'me' in this ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Consciousness vs. Thought

Postby Sighclone » Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:00 pm

Welcome ellen! You remind me so much of myself when I first landed here in 2008! This is a fine place to bring some of your fears and questions -- saved me, for sure. Regardless of the impact of your first "recognition" there is continuous development. Recall that ET was near suicide with depression and that his discovery of "the divine witness" was a gigantic release. The spiritual concept of "the witness" is mentioned frequently by Nisargadatta and Adyashanti and others. It's a big step to experience it.

I also asked "what can we do??" and sent out books and letters to lots of people. I was like a puppy. Well, my friends were very patient with me. Kind of them. Yes, there is much to be done. The best place to start is inside. Keep refining your experience and keep reading. There is a recommended book section in this forum with lots of choices. Adyashanti is a personal favorite, as are Gary Weber and Jac O'Keeffe. But each person is very different, and some other author / website may resonate more. And Eckhart-tv is helpful, too. As you continue to evolve, the outward things to do will arrive quite clearly and intuitively.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Consciousness vs. Thought

Postby ellen_ » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:38 am

rachMiel wrote:Think of it this way: If there's ultimately no-one/no-thing (self, soul, etc.) in control of the Ellen organism, there's no one to blame, no one to feel guilty or inadequate, nothing to worry about. What a relief! :-)


Thank you again :-). I am still trying to reconcile what is happening in the world with this new change. Haven taken the time to think about it, what happened over night for Tolle, actually took me almost 10 years to '"understand" (to stop fight against). Hindsight I realize that the reason for this are our "norms" in society.

I was just wondering if anyone agrees with the following: I feel that these days, doctors, instead of helping to heal depression (or any mental health issue for that matter) often make it worse. How? Within 15 minutes of (not) knowing the person, they label the person as something and prescribe a drug. Depression is like an open wound. It's as though someone had a car accident and his leg is open and wounded. He's brought to hospital and the doctor, instead of taking care of the bleeding wound, prescribes medication. The "patient" thanks the doctor for his help, after all, he can finally "live again" because he no longer feels his leg, doesn't feel the pain. But the leg is rotting away, no one addressed the real problem. As a result his quality of life and health deteriorate. Of course, if he stopped taking medication, the pain in his leg would be back (after all its never been treated). The doctors will then say it's chronicle (your parents or grandparents also had car accidents and got their leg wounded, it must be genetic). They say it will never go away, you will never be normal. On top of persuading you that without medication you will be unable to function, they also persuade you, you are not normal. And the latter is probably even worse. As soon as you've been labelled some weird thing, you can't feel comfortable in society ("I have to be careful or they'll find me not normal"). Psychiatrists make you believe medication is your salvation and you are so thankful they have "saved you".

I am sharing this, because I wish my "awakening" had happened over night as for Eckhart Tolle, but it took me almost 10 years and I can now clearly see why. I do not find this comparison to the wounded leg exaggerated. It is exactly the same. In my last post I was talking about this "vicious circle" of wrong values, that need to be replaced. Well, the way "egoic I's "look at mental health is the same as they look for instance territorial problems in politics. It's always the same: the need to annihilate what is different. On an individual level it is destroying people's health by drugging them to "tame the craziness". On a larger scale, in politics for instance: destroying or killing by using weapons to "prevent danger". But there is no other craziness or danger than that which we have created ourselves.

What I am trying to say is that no matter on what level, the only problem is that these days no one addresses the issue in depth (and that starts with: in yourself). (Why does no one addresses the issue in depth? Because we are trapped in the cycle of material values and psychiatrist like prescribing drugs, why take the time to see deeper?) And so, in the same way wars are fought on the outside, there has been a "war" on the inside of me. The reason is that the answer to my sufferings and healing was in me, but no one helped me get there. Instead, for many many years I went through horrible things, hindsight it somehow feels like I was a rat they experimented on. And what I will never forget and that made me so sure I am sick, is how the doctor labelled me after having seen me just a couple times. I still remember, it was as though he was saying "the sky is blue". When I disagreed he made sure it's a fact. I must say that i highly respect doctors, to me it's one of the noblest professions. His words were holy (after all I had no idea what was going on with me and who will know better than a doctor)? For years to come I always wanted to free myself from the ego, but at the same time would cling onto it, because I needed to stay "normal" and what was happening to me (*being conscious) was "not normal". Or would you go to your doctor talk about a voice in your head. No, you'll be afraid they'll put you in hospital. In the same way you are afraid no matter what you do or say, because it might not be conform with the "norm". But to me that norm never seemed natural. As Eckhart Tolle said, it's insane.

I should be really angry for all this unnecessary suffering, but I am not. I am so grateful for finally having found inner peace. I am not angry, I am deeply happy. Nevertheless, I started writing about it, to say, that I now also clearly see how easy it is to explain why I went through these hard times, why I started feeling bad in the first place. The reason is because most of my life I have been struggling with my ego, I lived in more than five different countries and started moving from a very young age. The ego needs to have its identity, its convictions etc. but having moved all my life, I wasn't even sure of what my nationality or mother tongue really was. Everything about my life was unconventional and I could never fit in as a child, no matter where I was, I was too different.

All of this to say: I find it sad that society today doesn't treat the issue (I'm not saying medication is evil but in mental health it is clearly overused and almost deprives the person of who they are). To get back to the great "wounded leg" comparison. I now finally feel that it's healing. But how? I healed it myself. Better later than never. And of course, for those who have read my last post, I was all about "one can't just awake and live in the present without sharing the wisdom, giving Eckhart Tolle as an example". Well now you know why...(it doesn't have to take almost 10 years and suffering). But then again, I am ok with what is. I understand that everything that was happening inside me is the same as happening outside of me and that I can't change everything tomorrow. Just as it took me time, it will take society time. And then either we will survive and live on another planet or not at all.

Whatever the case.....I do feel much more at ease now that I know that I don't have to "save the world" ;). It's funny but since it took me so long to understand what is "normal" and living with all this fear I couldn't fully awaken, I now realize I was in between the two for a long time. I was aware of what is happening in the world, very conscious and ware of my thoughts, realizing how useless they sometimes are and so on, was often seeing clearly what needs to be done etc. But at the same time my ego was still there so the reasons for me to do it (even though they more and more felt wrong) were things such as prove someone what I am capable of etc. And then gradually I started feeling that this is not why I need to do that, there is some higher force, it was my consciousness.

EnterZenFromThere wrote:Hi Ellen,

You speaking of awakening and a global movement toward awakening of the planet reminds me of a book I'm reading at the moment called 'I Am the Word' by Paul Selig.


Thank you very much Jack, I will surely check that out!

Phil2 wrote:
ellen_ wrote:
Don't you think we could do much more?


And this is the problem, thinking you can 'do' something ... and who thinks this ?


You are right, I discovered Tolle a couple days ago and having read more of him, I realize that it's true. Being in the present, which I now try to do as often as I can, the right actions come naturally.

Sighclone wrote:The spiritual concept of "the witness" is mentioned frequently by Nisargadatta and Adyashanti and others. It's a big step to experience it.


Yes, it is for sure!!! It feels so pure, new and fresh.

Sighclone wrote: Yes, there is much to be done. The best place to start is inside.
Thank you very much Andy, I understand that better now. Also thank you for the book suggestions.

Sighclone wrote: As you continue to evolve, the outward things to do will arrive quite clearly and intuitively
That is so wonderful :-)

Greetings,
Ellen
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Re: Consciousness vs. Thought

Postby Phil2 » Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:04 pm

ellen_ wrote: The reason is that the answer to my sufferings and healing was in me, but no one helped me get there.


Right Ellen, and this was the key point: healing was in yourself ... because ego is the fierce guardian of your own prison, and ego holds the keys ... as long as ego operates, insanity will perpetuate ... because ego IS insanity ... ego IS resistance to 'what is' ... division and conflicts, inside and outside ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Consciousness vs. Thought

Postby slow ride » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:22 am

I am new here also. I share your passion with realization that you are not the thinker. To that I add my own additional icing on that cake: then, I must be the knower.

I say: never lose delight in the opportunity to be the knower each and every moment; truly, every moment is a gift

I also say: knowing you are the knower returns you to control of your word, your will, your intent, your creative force (therefore, every moment is a powerful gift)

This is great advice:
rachMiel wrote:Relax, enjoy. And stay present. :-)



-Dave

The beginning of freedom is the realization that you are not the thinker. -ET
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Re: Consciousness vs. Thought

Postby ellen_ » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:23 am

Phil2 wrote: ego is the fierce guardian of your own prison, and ego holds the keys ... as long as ego operates, insanity will perpetuate ... because ego IS insanity ... ego IS resistance to 'what is' ... division and conflicts, inside and outside ...


That was beautifully said Phil, thank you.

I was wondering......this means that , when one is fully awake (as Eckhart Tolle), it is impossible to get into a depression (or any other mental illness), is that right?


slow ride wrote: knowing you are the knower returns you to control of your word, your will, your intent, your creative force (therefore, every moment is a powerful gift)


This is very true. Thank you. I will tell myself that every time I feel like my ego is taking over. One thing is being aware of what is going on and being the ''knower'', the other is to act upon it. And I do realize how difficult it sometimes is.

Eckhart Tolle quotes Jesus ''forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing'', to explain that you can't be mad at ''unconscious'' people. It is so hard when you know you are right though(for instance about the location of a meeting)and so you are trying to help but your colleague won't want to believe what you are saying. Within a second, the help you try to offer the person, turns into resistance (to the fact that the person doesn't want your help) and ego takes over. What started because you wanted to help, so that your colleague doesn't waste time, turns into proving yourself right. And within the matter of a minute..
And that is nothing compared to how far ignorance can go. It must be really hard to tame the ego, (life long convictions) and accept what is when something horrible is happening or when you know you can prevent something bad from happening but no one believes you or or or.
I guess it takes true mastery to never let yourself be swept away by thought and always stay in the present. Can the ego really ever ''die'' fully? I mean, is it possible to be so aware of your thoughts that your are in control of your mind every second? (I must say Eckhart Tolle seems to be pretty good at it :D .)

All the best
Ellen
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Re: Consciousness vs. Thought

Postby slow ride » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:19 am

ellen_ wrote:I mean, is it possible to be so aware of your thoughts that your are in control of your mind every...

So aware of thoughts?
Perhaps this alternate question...

Is it possible to be so now and so the knower that thoughts of the thinker have faded to wisps of breeze garnering no attention whatsoever save an occasional disinterested mental glance thus just continuing for extended durations of seeming-earth-time in Now and Know?
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Re: Consciousness vs. Thought

Postby Phil2 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:14 am

ellen_ wrote:I was wondering......this means that , when one is fully awake (as Eckhart Tolle), it is impossible to get into a depression (or any other mental illness), is that right?


Right, depression becomes impossible, because depression can only come from thought which is resistance to 'what is' ... always projecting 'should be's or 'should not be's ... never surrendering to 'what is' ...

Now what could be possible is that you have some 'psychotic episodes' (as it would be 'labelled' by a psychiatrist :-), meaning that you can see or hear strange things ... but you won't make a problem of that, it is just another form of manifestation of the formless that you are ... just forms appearing in the space (or the 'screen') of formless awareness ... just let it be as it is ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Consciousness vs. Thought

Postby Sighclone » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:39 pm

slow ride wrote:
ellen_ wrote:I mean, is it possible to be so aware of your thoughts that your are in control of your mind every...

So aware of thoughts?
Perhaps this alternate question...

Is it possible to be so now and so the knower that thoughts of the thinker have faded to wisps of breeze garnering no attention whatsoever save an occasional disinterested mental glance thus just continuing for extended durations of seeming-earth-time in Now and Know?


This brings up a larger question, concerning who "you" is. ("...you are in control of your mind...") Is this nondual paradox an "either-or" paradox (...little me vs. Self...) or a both-and paradox (...separate inside self AND Brahman...) . I'm thinking there are probably forty threads and hundreds of posts here, over the last few years on this. Briefly, I agree with Tim Freke in "How Long is Now" suggesting that it is a both-and paradox. You can consciously sit down and pay your bills, go to work, do the wash, read a book, etc...all those 'regular life' things. (Ramana used to cook for the ashram, read the newspaper, etc.) There is a perceivable, active, apparent separate self "doing" that stuff. Even after deep and abiding unity consciousness has arrived. But that is just my opinion, based on my evolving experience. Others, respected friends in nondual circles, disagree.

The concept of "self-control" requires a "little me" self to be controlled, a head full of thoughts and impulses, and some sort of "controller." I actually think that concept is valid, too. It's just that once you are pretty much settled in Presence, that the "process" of self-control just happens. One added feature is the pervasiveness of compassion. And not just compassion for "others." (...that's global codependence, and ignores your needs...). You actually show respect for your own body and mind, too, declining to put in that extra hour helping someone because you have to be happy and functional tomorrow, and respect that.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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