Purposely creating changes in my internal world

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Purposely creating changes in my internal world

Postby Clouded » Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:43 pm

I am a bit angry because I have put some effort into writing a big paragraph and I accidentally pressed a button on my keyboard that refreshed the page and now all is lost because I had to log back in. Oh well, everything happens for a reason I suppose?? :( Basically it was about creating another ego to cope with my unfriendly internal world and now I have two egos, one that is my old ego which contains all of my anxieties, fears and insecurities and the other being my image of my guru self who is trying to uplift my spirit with all the wisdom that I have accumulated over the past year and a half. It's just that sometimes it gets crowded in my mind because I am witnessing interactions between these two selves, I know that neither is me because I am not made of thought but I just don't know how to let go of thought without thinking of letting go of thought. When I sense the beginning of a panic attack symptom, I find that the phrases that help me the most to return to a state of well-being are ''you are not to blame for these thoughts/feelings'' and ''this unpleasant feeling will not last forever''. I am hoping that this new ego will take over my old one because I want to live my life to the fullest, I don't want to limit opportunities for myself because some unpleasant thoughts are in the way. I also have learned to forgive my dad, I won't go into detail about what happened, but I gave him a hug some time after he insulted me as a peace offering. :)
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: Purposely creating changes in my internal world

Postby Manyana » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:17 am

Clouded wrote:I just don't know how to let go of thought without thinking of letting go of thought.

Hi Clouded, rather than trying to let go of thought, its about focusing on presence practice, the more often you go into presence throughout the day (this can be as little as a couple of seconds each time), the more space you create inside, which leads naturally to the lessening of thoughts.

Clouded wrote:When I sense the beginning of a panic attack symptom, I find that the phrases that help me the most to return to a state of well-being are ''you are not to blame for these thoughts/feelings'' and ''this unpleasant feeling will not last forever''.

I like "resist nothing".
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Re: Purposely creating changes in my internal world

Postby Phil2 » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:02 am

Hi Clouded, welcome back to the forum :)

I basically agree with what Manyana said above ... don't try to suppress or repress thoughts, but rather practice presence and attention/awareness to the inner movements (thoughts, emotions, body tensions etc.) ... as Eckhart said "inhabit your body" as often as possible ...

Clouded wrote: I also have learned to forgive my dad, I won't go into detail about what happened, but I gave him a hug some time after he insulted me as a peace offering. :)


Good for you, you cannot change others, but you can change the way you 'react' to others (or rather the absence of 'reaction') ... iow. you don't let others 'control' (trigger) your emotions, so they cannot 'push your buttons' any more ...

Did your dad and mom make peace themselves ?
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Purposely creating changes in my internal world

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:16 am

Hey clouded!

Could you describe your 'guru self' a little more?

I have experiences with something that might be called a 'guru self'. I call it my Higher Self. The Higher Aspect of Me that exists beyond the body/mind. I believe we can all communicate with this Higher Aspect. That it is probably the single best guiding force we can ever meet in this human life. I believe that true communication with this aspect of Us is a better guide than any teacher, and that the best a teacher can do, is to point a person to this Aspect of Themselves.

With that in mind, what makes you feel uncomfortable about this aspect of yourself?

Does it ever give good advice? Does it ever make you feel happy?

Love,

Jack
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Re: Purposely creating changes in my internal world

Postby Clouded » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:05 pm

I never said anything about suppressing my thoughts/feelings :), I learned the hard way that you resist, persists (I was so fearful of my own thinking that I developed disturbing obsessions that haunted me every waking hour and now looking back at it, I am sort of grateful for this experience because it opened my eyes to how I was the creator of my own reality and how I can turn my life into hell and not the other way around). By practicing presence, you do let of thoughts naturally, but when I am innocently lost in thought to the point where negative sensations arise within me, I can't unidentify with thoughts without reminding myself to unidentify with thoughts. I still struggle with recurrent beliefs such as I am not enough, my experiences are inferior to others', I am unlikable, something bad will happen to me because I did x, y, z and I still cry or panic because I agree with them even if I know that it's all imaginary.

My parents fight like children, a couple of weeks ago they had the dumbest excuse for an argument that I had ever witnessed (if you are interested to know what happened: my mom farted in the living room and apparently it stank the whole place and it seriously bothered my dad who was reading in the living room and I was upstairs laughing under my breath because they were furious and were throwing insults at each other over a smell that will dissipate and disappear in a matter of minutes. Sometimes I feel like I am the adult of the house)

My guru self feels less of an intruder than my old self, but I identify more easily with my old self. It's just that, I feel overwhelmed by my selves. My emotions are all over the place because I listen to all my selves (I don't know if peace is considered an emotion or a lack of emotion). For example, at one point, I may cry, then realize that I am not living in the moment, that the time that I choose to spend worrying about the future can be spent doing something I enjoy so I pick myself up and distract myself for a while and then another unpleasant thought occurs and the cycle repeats and I have to remind myself again that I am not living in the moment. It's not that I resist the thoughts/feelings, I eventually accept them after I am done with feeling awful, I'm just annoyed because I am constantly changing beliefs/moods, if that makes sense.
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: Purposely creating changes in my internal world

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:15 pm

Bless you clouded!

I see the difficult situations you are in, and also I relate, as I've been through similar difficult times with family (a sister who attempted suicide many times, a mother so anxious she lives a limited life and raised us with huge same fear, and that's very much the tip of the iceberg!). But these life lessons were training for what I am becoming. I now see them as blessings - wonderful gifts!

I see your difficulties and I see how you are rising to these challenges so wonderfully! It is great to see. Fluctuating between emotions and thoughts and moods is ok. You are maintaining your awareness in the Present that, in truth, you are. Over time, you will evolve beyond these transient difficulties and move into something so much more free and creative and easy!

Much love to you!

Jack
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Re: Purposely creating changes in my internal world

Postby alex » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:08 am

Hi Clouded,
I feel like you've probably read a lot about spirituality, you know all the bizz about it. It's a pretty unavoidable phase for most people, the knowledge about it turning into thoughts in your mind. I think those who have slightly more obsessive tendencies have a harder time of it (myself included). Yo well, more suffering means more motivation to wake up from the ridiculousness of mind identification.
My suggestion is to now cut through the bullshit and really get into self inquiry. You, your true self, is no different from Eckhart Tolle's or Ramana's or any great sage throughout history or anyone on earth's! Your very nature is that which does not suffer. Your true nature is that ever present awareness that allows the experience of suffering to occur.
Maybe start getting curious about that? What am I already?
I recently started a blog and have a post on meditation/self inquiry if you want to check it out.
silentcentre.com
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Re: Purposely creating changes in my internal world

Postby Sighclone » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:37 am

I just don't know how to let go of thought without thinking of letting go of thought.


Yeah, that's a real solipsistic rathole. A bunch of thinking recursion. Mirrors facing mirrors.

I would recommend a mantra-based meditation technique. Whenever you find yourself thinking about anything, you just replace that thought with the mantra. And do not judge the meditation. Worked for several million TM meditators. But this is not an endorsement of that technique specifically.

I also like what alex says about your true self being the same "true self" as Eckhart Tolle's or Ramana's etc. Excellent point, alex. Also, as you "approach" the answer to "Who am I?" -- it will be your answer, discovered by you. You can be your own Buddha under the tree. However, finally, when the "answer" comes from persistent self-inquiry, (and it is the experience of Self,) it is the same experience they all had. Technically speaking no one becomes enlightened. There is only enlightenment. And sometimes it dribbles away, too. And then it comes back... Glimpses happen, so does backsliding. But, after a certain point, continued progress is inevitable.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Purposely creating changes in my internal world

Postby karmarider » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:03 pm

alex wrote:My suggestion is to now cut through the bullshit and really get into self inquiry. You, your true self, is no different from Eckhart Tolle's or Ramana's or any great sage throughout history or anyone on earth's! Your very nature is that which does not suffer. Your true nature is that ever present awareness that allows the experience of suffering to occur.
Maybe start getting curious about that? What am I already?


Nicely said.

John Sherman's looking technique, or just observing thought as witness works well. In my experience, it doesn't seem to matter how practiced one gets, it still seems that occassionally, a good dose of looking is needed to shift attention from within the character to awareness.
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Re: Purposely creating changes in my internal world

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:02 pm

SighClone said: Technically speaking no one becomes enlightened. There is only enlightenment.

Apologies for the poor quoting my ipad has some issues quoting text.

I was wondering if you could elaborate on this my friend?

What is enlightenment?

Who is no one?

Does no one have an I Am? And if so, then what could take place there?

I apologise if this side tracks the focus of the thread here, but these questions are so vital.

Love,

Jack
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Re: Purposely creating changes in my internal world

Postby Sighclone » Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:55 am

There are, strictly speaking, no enlightened people, there is only enlightened activity.

- Shunryu Suzuki

Sorry, I misused slightly the message from a Zen master. I usually give credit, and also apologize for that. So I dug around on the web and found this quote in many places, but never the actual reference point, but I think it was in "Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind." I like it because it reminds us that "personhood" is ultimately fictional. We can talk about personality all day long. Yours and mine (and Adya's and Eckhart's etc.) But at the moment of awakening, the person is felt to disappear entirely, and "I am That" arrives. Nisargadatta regretted that title after he published the book. "That" refers to Brahman or Pure Awareness. Pure awareness is unity consciousness and it means that your identity as a person dissolves, or perhaps better said, becomes an option, not a fixed requirement for living. The dissolution of "little me" is what Adya refers to as "the end of your world."

Don't go there, it's real scary... :cry:

Just kidding, of course, but the egoic identity is strong and tenacious. In truth, though, you never give it up -- nothing is really lost -- you just discover that you don't really need it to be at peace..."Jackness" remains.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Purposely creating changes in my internal world

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:04 am

I agree with Andy here. Yet, I don't fully :D

As I feel it's a bit more complex than merely awakening to Awareness and bang....little me is gone which is kind of what non-duality teaches. Personally (yep, I said it), it depends what we mean first of all by little me. I think the personality is built up from previous lives and this life itself as everything we learn from previous lives gets carried over every time we choose to incarnate. The personality is what makes each of us unique. The personality is what we come into these bodies to experience, not something to be rid of as I see it. On the other hand, confusing the personality with who you actually are (which is what I call Ego) is how most of us live prior to awakening.

But, I'm glad Jack asked the questions he did because I was curious too and I'm glad I got to read Andy's response as I understand now what he meant. Thanks guys!

I'm going to post a quote from Webwanderer which I just found in a very old thread of his back from 2010 which relates to this. I think WW nails it so well here as he so often does as he explains his own interpretation of the difference between the ego/person and unique perspective. I should say....at least I resonate with his post. Here goes:

WW said: The fundamental nature of life is awareness. It is in essence what we all share, what we all are. But there is that troublesome word 'we'. How does that get in the mix? What is it? What does it represent or refer to. We all know we can't have a conversation, written or verbal, without constant reference to I, me, and you. So what distinguishes this 'perception' of self expressed as I and you from that of awareness? I would suggest that it is conscious perspective.

Now, while awareness is universal, the canvas upon which all else is formed and the basic substance of consciousness, perspective is the point of view of awareness from which all substance, in whatever realm, is observed. A point of view is a unique aspect of awareness. It is awareness perceiving consciously what is, from any imaginable option. While, in the case of human perspective, each point of view is unique and maintains the essence of Awareness as Self, all points of view or selfs, originate from and remain this same universal core awareness. This conscious point of view perceived by awareness is the unique "self" - the I, the me, the you, that is in its Essence the One Self - the One Awareness.

So I and you and all others are references to Awareness’s points of view, and as Essential Awareness in origin, are not so much imaginary as unique. Two or more people sitting in a room share one awareness, but each is conscious of a different perspective. Each unique perspective is how life experiences creation from that particular conscious point of view. How long do these points of view last? Who knows? Maybe forever. There is certainly nothing to require they must end.

Understand, I am not talking about ego identification here. While the ego’s sense of self is still the I and the you referenced above, its identity as a separate enduring being, or persistent perspective of awareness, is false. It is a construct of mind designed through adoption of thoughts and beliefs as reality. (The fact that it is so universal in the human condition, I think, reveals its inherent value to the evolution of conscious perspective in the larger sense, but that‘s a subject for another thread.)
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Re: Purposely creating changes in my internal world

Postby karmarider » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:11 am

Clouded wrote:...



Clouded, I see you.

What I see is you are awakening. You are observing. You write here as a catharsis. I understand that. Write. Keep on observing.
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Re: Purposely creating changes in my internal world

Postby Sighclone » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:37 am

I like Webby's distinction of "point of view." It honors the obvious physical and mental separation we recognize. The fundamental question remains: "Who Am I?" Webby answers with both the separateness and the unity, and I agree fully with that paradox. It is Tim Freke's "both/and" paradox, vs. the more obvious, and I think misleading and over-restrictive "either/or" paradox. Adya refers to "point of awareness" in "Falling from Grace." The Sanskrit term "atman" has been interpreted several ways, including the Kashmir Shaivism suggestion of the element of Self expressed or manifested in the individual body. Awakening then becomes the realization of the Self in waking consciousness which is the end of separation and end of identity as just "little me."

Thanks, E2B and Webby!

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Purposely creating changes in my internal world

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:31 am

Sighclone wrote:Sorry, I misused slightly the message from a Zen master. I usually give credit, and also apologize for that.


I think you should apologise for not quoting yourself - haha! I asked you! Not some Zen Master or Nisargadatta. Their Perspective is theirs, your Perspective is yours!!! What is yours? Not as a concept to intellectualise, but as your Experience. What is your Experience?

Sighclone wrote:I like it because it reminds us that "personhood" is ultimately fictional.


Why is personhood fictional?

Sighclone wrote:the egoic identity is strong and tenacious. In truth, though, you never give it up -- nothing is really lost -- you just discover that you don't really need it to be at peace..."Jackness" remains.


I feel I moved beyond any fixed egoic identity some time ago. Jack, as an amalgamation of thought-form memory-constructs (each their own individual I Am, and also part of the larger I Am of Jack) remains. But my sense of self - my I Am has evolved far beyond this. Not at the exclusion of the lesser, but as an incorporation of them on into the greater - AS the greater. I Am The One. The One that is The Many. But my expansion is not limited to seeing this alone either. To evolve further in my voyage of Self Discovery, it is necessary to continue to broaden my illumination of myself into the subtle aspects that comprise me. Through space and time and dimensions. I explore my Angelic Aspects - the Aspects of Me that are the thin tree branch to my Human leaf. All the Tree of the One. These Angelic Aspects have directly contributed to the Life that experiences here as Human. They evolve as my Human Self evolves.

As I see it now, Self is not fixed. It Flows. Through the creation of new Perspective, the dissolution of old Perspective. This Flowing of Perspectual Shift is the Evolution of Self taking place within My Human Experience.

I see no 'enlightenment'. I see only enlightening. On and on through the fractal nature of Us Forever. We are destined to evolve into God and beyond into the God of Gods and beyond. Such is the nature of existence.

It is my understanding that All Humans walking the Earth at this time of great change - from the Night to the Day - are Magnificent Divine Beings. I see great benefit in highlighting this. I see little benefit in propagating the small and isolated Perspective that there is no person. I see this Perspective as one of Fear. Of Constriction. Of 'No'. The way of the Light is of Love. Of Openness. Of 'Yes'. I see a Harmony between Darkness and Light that enables the evolution of Consciousness. As a wave constricts and relaxes to enable it to flow forward. To say with rigidity that everything is one way or the other - good or bad - black or white - yes or no - person or no person - is to deny the flux of Life. There is too much constriction at this time. We need balance and so I highlight the Light.

Love,

Jack
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