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Re: Presence

PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:55 pm
by runstrails
Hi Rob,
I enjoyed the koan. But not sure if the analogy would work with awareness/existence.

However, it made me realize something useful. Advaita Vedanta is like science where the most straightforward explanation (with the fewest assumptions) is accepted logically. (Sort of Occam's razor like). The mind is indispensable to AV and science.

Buddhism (of which I know nothing admittedly) may work more like philosophy (of which I know even less) where the more complex the scenario, the less likely it is to become a mind-based conceptualization.

And both paths appeal to different people. And that is really a good thing :D.

rM wrote: .. emptiness ... awareness ... the ground ... brahman ... god ... truth ... self ... the totality ... the mystery ... this ...
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

HI rM, I agree. Call it what you like---(but ultimately it does have to be of the nature of awareness/existence :lol:).
Hope I'm only being mildly annoying and I'll refrain from further disrupting this fine thread.

Re: Presence

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:33 pm
by dijmart
Hope I'm only being mildly annoying and I'll refrain from further disrupting this fine thread.


I don't think you're disrupting or annoying...however, I'm probably in the same boat as you! :lol: :mrgreen:

Re: Presence

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:32 pm
by rachMiel
There is no boat.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: :mrgreen:

Re: Presence

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:41 pm
by dijmart
rachMiel wrote:There is no boat.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: :mrgreen:


Actually, there most definately is a boat, it "exists", as you can experience it! ...It's just not "real". :wink:
Real being defined as always present and never changing.

Re: Presence

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:53 pm
by rachMiel
Details, details ... ;-) I knew I should have stuck the U word in there:

Ultimately* there is no boat.

* Paramartha-cally

Re: Presence

PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:58 am
by dijmart
rachMiel wrote:Details, details ... ;-) I knew I should have stuck the U word in there:

Ultimately* there is no boat.

* Paramartha-cally


:lol:

Yes, there is an "apparent" boat! :mrgreen:

Re: Presence

PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:15 pm
by Rob X
runstrails wrote:Hi Rob,
I enjoyed the koan. But not sure if the analogy would work with awareness/existence.

However, it made me realize something useful. Advaita Vedanta is like science where the most straightforward explanation (with the fewest assumptions) is accepted logically. (Sort of Occam's razor like). The mind is indispensable to AV and science.

Buddhism (of which I know nothing admittedly) may work more like philosophy (of which I know even less) where the more complex the scenario, the less likely it is to become a mind-based conceptualization.


Buddhism (or the sort that I resonate with) is simply about a preparation to be open to what is - as it is. This is why meditation/presence is at the heart of it. For now drop the philosophy and the logical conclusions (as I say, they can come later, after the fact), move out of the analytical mind and rest - with curiosity - in THIS or ___________. It might soon become clear that there is no separation from THIS - that there is no THIS and a ‘me’ that stands apart from it. But this is not a rationalisation this is a visceral shift in perspective. It’s not a conclusion (apart from after the fact) but a living-present-realisation.

There’s no requirement to formulate what THIS is (we can’t know.) Awareness will do, so will Living-ness or Life or Reality or BE-ing or whatever. It doesn’t matter, none are right, they are simply pointers.

Re: Presence

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:17 am
by rachMiel
Here's how I think of Buddhism / Advaita these days:

Buddhism is experience-centered. The territory (experience) is primary, the map (conceptual understanding) is secondary.

Advaita is knowledge-centered. The map (understanding) is primary, the territory (experience) is secondary.

For me, the full picture includes both: understanding and experience.