A logical argument for Mindfulness

Here you may share how the words Eckhart Tolle have affected your life.
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Reagan
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:32 am

A logical argument for Mindfulness

Post by Reagan » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:06 am

A logical argument for Mindfulness

Do most of us believe that, to some extent: a) there is a higher consciousness than our own; b) and that that consciousness is omniscient. These must be taken on faith as science can not prove them. Still, I believe these things not only possible but probable, so let me make an argument, you form your own conclusion. I expect it will vary depending on your thoughts and opinions on a) and b) above.

For sake of brevity, let’s call the consciousness “god”. Could god know when I wag my finger, or give someone the bird? I contend probable. By extension, it seems illogical and improbable to me that there is some cut line below which god does not know what occurs. So how could god know about the state of a sub-atomic particle, say the exact position of an electron? To me, there is only one logical answer. God IS everywhere. God literally is part of the smallest sub-atomic particle, and everything else we don't know about; Dark Matter, Dark Energy, the lot of it. I contend the universe and as many alternate/parallel universes discovered by science are the physical manifestation of god. If you accept a) and b) above I can not personally draw any other conclusion. Since I personally believe probability is high for both, I’m all in.

But why would god care if I give someone the bird? Since I’m making a case for the universe being the body of god, let’s consider our own bodies. Unless it is affecting our health and/or happiness, do we care or know how our liver is faring today? I contend not; and that, for me personally, reconciles the omniscient vs free will question. God could choose to direct his "mind" to me throwing the bird, but why should he? As long as the body of the universe as a whole is healthy, and growing in consciousness, why? Views of a Newtonian clockwork universe are partially right, but the clock itself is ever changing and growing in complexity, and in ways far deeper than just human scientific understanding. Do you notice that Mindfulness is being spoken about more and more? At my company, a large US based manufacturer, I commonly see references to Mindfulness in communication from executives. I have no clue if they even understand it, but just seeing the word in print in an email seen round the company, and hence around the globe (it's a really big company), seems very good to me.

Now what about those of us with faith? I contend absolutely no conflict at all. I only use Christianity as example, I understand it best. When did man fall from grace, when Eve ate the apple right? But what apple? An apple from the tree of knowledge. And where do we humans store knowledge? We fell from grace with the emergence of the mind which saw man as separate from nature and god. "Taboo, sin, shame, duality (good/evil just for starters), and all similar thinking stated then (straight up Tolle). If you understand & believe the underlying message, it is immaterial if you believe that literal story or not. That is your free will choice as is another belief entirely.

Now back to god is everywhere. Gospel of Thomas saying 77b. Jesus said: "Split wood, I am there. Lift up a rock, you will find me there." I have laid out my argument and personal interpretation of that which is again straight up Tolle.

One of the main sticking points between science and those of faith seems to me to be Man’s special place in the universe. How can we be that significant if the earth only equates to a single cell in the bigger body of god? For me, that is simple. We are part of god even when we don’t know it. We are the highest form of consciousness in the know universe (scientifically) in our conscious universe (postulation). So we humans ARE the rarest thing in the human known universe. I believe that make us special in the eyes of “god”. That is my logical conclusion as an engineer, and as a possibly slightly conscious human. Internal debate is still arguing my own consciousness and I expect it to for the rest of this life. My view on this paragraph is a distillation of Tolle and Chopra.

As a student of mindfulness, I find it ironic that I have to use my flawed but hopefully improving mind to communicate this to you.

As an engineer, I have personally observed, proven, and verified a better functioning mind, in myself, to my own satisfaction. My personal results and experiences studying Mindfulness have given me faith in a) and b) above. The leap of "Faith" was not hard at all for me personally.

Søren Kierkegaard, a man respected in philosophical, academic, and religious circles explained "the leap of faith" well for me.

Baruch Spinoza had similar views, but his cred in religious circles may be dicey in this argument. However, he was a contemporary of, and in opposition to the views of René Descartes ("I think, therefore I am.", also referenced by Tolle), so that gets him points in my book. Your mileage may vary.
Last edited by Reagan on Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:10 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Mystic
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:29 am

Re: A logical argument for Mindfulness

Post by Mystic » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:58 am

Reagan wrote:
Now what about those of us with faith? I content absolutely no conflict at all. I will use Christianity as example as that is what I understand best. When did man fall from grace, when Eve ate the apple right? But what apple? An apple from the tree of knowledge. And where do we humans store knowledge? We fell from grace with the emergence of the mind which saw man as separate from nature and god. Taboo, sin, shame, and all similar thinking stated then (straight up Tolle). If you understand & believe the underlying message, it is immaterial if you believe that actual story or not. That is your free will choice as is another belief entirely.

Now back to god is everywhere. Gospel of Thomas saying 77b. Jesus said: "Split wood, I am there. Lift up a rock, you will find me there." I have laid out my argument and personal interpretation of that which is again straight up Tolle.
Hello Reagan :D

Thank you for the Gospel of Thomas quote.

I agree that the Garden of Eden story is an allegory for the mind. The tree of knowledge(good and evil) could also be called the tree of duality.

There is knowledge - to know about something and different things - labels for separate things - the dualistic ego-mind

There is knowing, or aware-ing, that is to know all things as yourself - Be still and know I am - oneness of being - the alert stillness

Reagan
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:32 am

Re: A logical argument for Mindfulness

Post by Reagan » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:19 am

Hello Mystic :D
I agree with all. Could have said "Taboo, sin, shame, the duality of good and evil, and all similar thinking stated then"

Actually, just going to make that edit.

Thanks!

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