De-energising thought forms (Guilt & OCD)

Here you may share how the words Eckhart Tolle have affected your life.
User avatar
Nebula
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:25 am
Location: England

De-energising thought forms (Guilt & OCD)

Post by Nebula » Thu May 03, 2007 3:04 pm

Following on from the thread "intellectual understanding.....but not experiencing the now" I wish to begin a thread more specifically looking at de-energising thought forms.

I have to say a huge thanks to everyone who contributed on that thread, I really found it both comforting and practically useful, and have experienced a decline in the unpleasant fearful feelings since trying to approach things differently.

Special thanks to JD who coined the phrase: "De-energising thought forms", and who seemed to be describing the exact troublesome thought processes I experience.

I work in Psychiatry, and although i've studied psychology/therapies, and worked in this field for many years, I have had trouble applying techniques to myself.

When trying to work out what my problems were in the past, i'd come to the conclusion that I had OCD, with ruminative thoughts of a guilt nature. It seemed as if there was no end to this problem, since if i ever managed to eliminate a particular thought complex, a new and infinitely worse (or so it seemed) one would pop into it's place.
The pattern was :
* Ruminate continuously about how guilty I felt, try and convince/rationalise to myself that I don't need to feel like this/run through the scenario in my head......(All the while my fear and anxiety would be sky high) Eventually it may die down, but then i'd be living in fear that i'd either start to think guilty thoughts, or see something to trigger the next bout.

What I realised was that there is a never ending supply of "guilty thoughts" I can have, so there's no point in trying to eliminate them. I needed to realise deeply that whatever i did, a new thought complex would always replace the last one, so to view these thoughts differently was what was needed. I try (and it isn't easy) to view all such thoughts as products of the "tormenting mind", and realise that i'll keep having new ones all the time. Somehow (this week anyhow) it's enabled me to feel less anxious and fearful. I'm trying not to avoid the thoughts.

Anyway, I haven't conquered this problem yet, but was wondering if anyone has either:
*Advice on this specific problem of ruminating tormenting thoughts
*People who have similar experiences, as it does seem to help when I hear of a similar 'problem'

Since discovering this forum, i've felt so much more hopeful at getting to the bottom of this.
"If it is the quality of your consciousness at this moment that determines the future, then what is it that determines the quality of your consciousness? Your degree of presence"

Agnieszka
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:31 pm
Location: Poland
Contact:

Post by Agnieszka » Thu May 03, 2007 4:52 pm

Hello Julia,

I'm writing this immediately after my today's experience. I think I can say (I'm not yet 100% sure though) that the way to "de-energize" compulsive thoughts is to allow them. My case is this: I always (from birth) have felt "unfit" (the recurring thought is: I'm unfit, I'm worse than them, I have to change it somehow and I can't!), i.e. always feeling uneasy with people, esp. those who are or seem to be stronger than me, more self-confident and at ease. I feel extremely tense (fearful) and uneasy in all kinds of crowded places, parties, where one has to look good and be nice to everybody and, which is most terrible, do the small talk. The irony is my partner loves these kinds of situations and my life abounds in them. :evil: Now I think it's my ego plus fear that "I will never ever be like those guys, I will never know what to say, I will never be trendy enough... :) ". Today, as usual, I was in torment, because I had to take part in a "high-society garden party". Still, all the time I was doing my best to stay in my body, to say "yes" to all the emotions (I had pains and was sweating all over :D ) and not to label people I saw. I admit I just had to rationalize my own feelings because it helped to say "yes" to my "otherness".
You ruminate all the time about feeling guilty, you seem to feel guilty about feeling guilty! I ruminate about being unfit, different, worse and I feel guilty that I just cannot change. Today I allowed myself (once and forever!) to be "different". That's not real me, it's just a kind of strange computer, machine I managed to build throughout my life. After I acknowledged that I AM DIFFERENT and that I don't have to change it, I felt relaxed. And I will continue to allow myself to not to feel good and at ease with certain people, at gatherings. Try to let yourself to feel guilty and remind yourself that it's a psychological structure, a conglomerate you created, not real you. Don't fight it, try to just let it be.

User avatar
JD
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:35 pm

Post by JD » Thu May 03, 2007 9:10 pm

julia_whirly wrote:I work in Psychiatry, and although i've studied psychology/therapies, and worked in this field for many years, I have had trouble applying techniques to myself.
This is a common problem among my psychologist friends because their knowledge comes from attempting to observe other people's minds rather than observing their own mind, or from the theoretical constructs of others operating within the same limitations.

To understand the nature and life-cycle of a thought-form, it's necessary to observe one's own mind.

A basic understanding of these matters is of very great help in dealing with troublesome thought-forms.

Of course, I realize that you understand that, or you wouldn't be here at all. :lol:
When trying to work out what my problems were in the past, i'd come to the conclusion that I had OCD...
This is another huge problem with psychologists. They mistake pinning an empty label on something for understanding the condition.

Did it help you to label your condition "OCD"?

Of course not! :lol:

OCD is a meaningless label because it describes nothing more than an extreme example of the normal human condition (and with no real understanding of the predicament at that).

What do we really mean when we say that someone suffers from OCD?

Essentially, we mean that they're in the grip of one or more compulsive thought-forms.

But this diagnosis applies to 99% of all people.

I'm aware that there are other diagnostic criteria for OCD, but being helplessly in the grip of a repetitive thought-form is the crux of the matter.

But how many people are not obsessed by thoughts about their work, partner, weight, attractiveness, social skills, etc.?

Yet we accept such obsessions as normal and even desirable, often rewarding the victims with promotion or other forms of increased social status.

These are obsessions that society approves of and encourages because neuroses of this type tend to increase the individuals ambition and productivity.

But the stereotypical obsessive-compulsive's fixations - repeated hand-washing or avoiding cracks in the sidewalk, for example - are without redeeming social value and therefore considered to be indicative of mental illness.

The truth is that however irrational the obsessive-compulsive's behaviour may appear, it comes into being in exactly the same way as any other cycle of mechanical, repetitive thoughts.

The only difference is that the obsessive-compulsive knows that he or she is suffering, whereas the equally obsessed workaholic generally considers his illness an asset.

In reality, both are in a pathological condition.

To see how they got that way we need to take a look at what thought-forms actually are and how they operate in the collective and individual consciousness.

Thoughts are living things. They have energy, intelligence and an agenda, which (like that of all living entities) is to acquire enough energy to ensure their own survival and prosperity for as long as possible.

How they achieve this will depend on their precise nature, but one thing is certain - you'll be providing the energy! :lol:

So how does a thought-form come into being?

There are two kinds of thought-forms - those formed by conscious thought (if I decide to build an image of the Taj Mahal in my mind, for example) and those formed by unconscious desire (more precisely, the desire may be conscious, but the creation of the thought-form is not).

We need only deal with unconsciously created thought-forms here, are they're the ones that tend to cause problems.

Let's say you're sitting in a restaurant and a waiter pushes the sweet-trolley past your table.

You see a delicious looking chocolate cake.

You feel desire for it.

You imagine how it will taste.

You've created an unconscious thought-form of desire for that cake.

In meditation, you can actually observe the formation of individual thought-forms and watch them rise and fall in your consciousness.

If you could see this one, it would appear as a slice of chocolate cake.

But back to the restaurant.

You've created the thought-form and the power of your desire has given it quite a good charge of energy.

At this point, one of two things can happen.

1) You remember your diet and decide not to order the cake.

2) You succumb to the thought-form and tuck into a generous slice of the cake.

If you exercise self-control the thought-form will be weakened and recede into your unconscious mind for the time being.

But if you eat the cake the pleasure of fulfilled desire will add to the thought-forms charge of energy.

Let's suppose that you eat the cake.

The thought-form will be well-charged with energy and recede into your unconscious mind until it begins to get low on energy.

Then it will surface once again into your conscious mind.

At this point you'll experience a strong desire to eat more chocolate cake.

You can react to this desire in three possible ways.

1) You can eat more cake. This will once more charge up the thought-form, which will be even stronger the next time it surfaces. That's how cycles of addiction are formed.

OR

2) You can fight against the temptation and refuse to eat any more cake. The energy produced by your struggle will also feed the thought-form and make it more powerful.

The third possibility is to react to the thought-form with complete indifference. Just allow it to be there but don't feed it by having an orgy of chocolate cake eating, or by struggling to do the opposite. Ignore it, welcome it, do anything but engage with it on its own level (thoughts of, chocolate cake - should I, shouldn't I?).

Of course, this strategy presupposes that you're sufficiently conscious to recognize the thought-form for what it is (rather than being totally identified with it, in which case your choices are restricted to the first two options, neither of which is helpful).

If you can succeed in maintaining an attitude of indifference, the thought-form will receive no energy and be considerably weaker and easier to resist with each subsequent appearance, until it eventually becomes de-energized and ceases to be a problem.
with ruminative thoughts of a guilt nature. It seemed as if there was no end to this problem, since if i ever managed to eliminate a particular thought complex, a new and infinitely worse (or so it seemed) one would pop into it's place.

The pattern was :

* Ruminate continuously about how guilty I felt, try and convince/rationalise to myself that I don't need to feel like this/run through the scenario in my head......(All the while my fear and anxiety would be sky high) Eventually it may die down, but then i'd be living in fear that i'd either start to think guilty thoughts, or see something to trigger the next bout.

What I realised was that there is a never ending supply of "guilty thoughts" I can have, so there's no point in trying to eliminate them. I needed to realise deeply that whatever i did, a new thought complex would always replace the last one, so to view these thoughts differently was what was needed. I try (and it isn't easy) to view all such thoughts as products of the "tormenting mind", and realise that i'll keep having new ones all the time. Somehow (this week anyhow) it's enabled me to feel less anxious and fearful. I'm trying not to avoid the thoughts.
Thought-forms of guilt are a little different - we can call them "negative desires", as they receive energy from your strong aversion to them and desire to avoid them.

In addition to creating such thought-forms yourself, they can also be picked up from the atmosphere, like psychic fleas.

When your mind vibrates on a particular level, it becomes a magnet for any thought-forms in the atmosphere that vibrate on the same frequency.

That's why, "whatever i did, a new thought complex would always replace the last one".

Your mind was an hospitable environment to thought-forms of guilt because that was its keynote vibration. (It should be noted that beneath this surface layer of conceptual mind is a vast well of pure stillness and bliss than can never be touched by anything you do or anything that's done to you. Discovering this was a real surprise to me. :lol: ).

In such a case it's not enough to de-energize individual thought-forms - they'll be replaced almost immediately by other, similar thought-forms.

As well as de-energizing the thought-forms of guilt, which leaves a vacuum which, as I said, will soon be filled by more of the same, it's necessary to deliberately create positive thought-forms in their place - the consciously created thought-forms I mentioned above.

In this way you can gradually alter the vibratory rate of your mind so that it no longer acts as a magnet for thought-forms of guilt.

But the essential thing is to stop identifying with them, personalizing them.

Some Buddhists see everything as the "Buddha-mind".

If they feel guilt, they'll say: "Oh, look. There's guilt in the Buddha-mind today!".

They never personalize the thought-form, never identify with it.

I've found this to be an excellent strategy. It soon becomes second-nature.

You are NOT the thought-forms of guilt in your mind.

You're a vast, wise cosmic being who's become temporarily entangled with some problematic thought-forms, that's all.

Try to remember that.
but then i'd be living in fear that i'd either start to think guilty thoughts, or see something to trigger the next bout.
Above all, try to see just how preposterous this really is! You create a self-fulfilling prophecy!

And I've been there, got the T-shirt. :lol: That's why I'm replying at such length. I feel such gratitude at being free of all that horror that I really want to help anyone else stuck in that terrible place.

There is a way out, I promise you, though there was a time when I almost didn't believe it myself.

And it doesn't depend on any special skills or brilliance, just a shift in awareness, like flipping a coin mentally.

Think of CBT.

Lie down and immerse yourself in guilt and fear. Feel the energy.

Realize that the energy and feelings are just thoughts.

They have no power to harm you.

Then find the still, calm centre underneath the turbulent thought-forms.

Anchor yourself in that stillness and watch the crazy thoughts from that place of absolute security.

You may not find it the first or second time, but it's there in every human mind and you WILL find it if you look for it.

When you find it you'll see that the thought-forms are really nothing to do with you at all, any more than the images projected on a cinema screen are a part of that screen.

That will be the beginning of your freedom from bondage and oppression.

You'll begin to create space around the thought-forms and they'll come to seem far less threatening until eventually you'll be able to deal with them quickly and easily when they arise in everyday life.

And remember, a thought-form isn't an inert object like a cup or a spoon, a thing which, once created is there forever.

A thought-form is a living entity which needs regular doses of energy to survive and the only way it can get that energy is by tricking you into giving it away by getting pulled into a thought-stream of guilt, fear, or whatever corresponds to its nature.

Don't do it! :lol:
Agnieszka wrote:Hello Julia,

I'm writing this immediately after my today's experience. I think I can say (I'm not yet 100% sure though) that the way to "de-energize" compulsive thoughts is to allow them. My case is this: I always (from birth) have felt "unfit" (the recurring thought is: I'm unfit, I'm worse than them, I have to change it somehow and I can't!), i.e. always feeling uneasy with people, esp. those who are or seem to be stronger than me, more self-confident and at ease. I feel extremely tense (fearful) and uneasy in all kinds of crowded places, parties, where one has to look good and be nice to everybody and, which is most terrible, do the small talk. The irony is my partner loves these kinds of situations and my life abounds in them. :evil: Now I think it's my ego plus fear that "I will never ever be like those guys, I will never know what to say, I will never be trendy enough... :) ". Today, as usual, I was in torment, because I had to take part in a "high-society garden party". Still, all the time I was doing my best to stay in my body, to say "yes" to all the emotions (I had pains and was sweating all over :D ) and not to label people I saw. I admit I just had to rationalize my own feelings because it helped to say "yes" to my "otherness".

You ruminate all the time about feeling guilty, you seem to feel guilty about feeling guilty! I ruminate about being unfit, different, worse and I feel guilty that I just cannot change. Today I allowed myself (once and forever!) to be "different". That's not real me, it's just a kind of strange computer, machine I managed to build throughout my life. After I acknowledged that I AM DIFFERENT and that I don't have to change it, I felt relaxed. And I will continue to allow myself to not to feel good and at ease with certain people, at gatherings. Try to let yourself to feel guilty and remind yourself that it's a psychological structure, a conglomerate you created, not real you. Don't fight it, try to just let it be.
A very brave, honest and moving post, Agnieszka. I can certainly identify with many of your fears (or could have done, I should say, before I learned how to disidentify from them).

And that, of course, is the point.

You comment: "Now I think it's my ego plus fear that "I will never ever be like those guys, I will never know what to say, I will never be trendy enough...", plainly indicates that, at some level, you actually feel that you should be like "those guys", i.e., smart, trendy and never at a loss for a witty comment.

Well, there may be a self-help tape that can help you in that ambition, but the Tolle work never will.

Of course, what you really want is not to be smart and trendy, but simply to feel liked and accepted by those who seem to have those qualities.

So the real problem is craving the acceptance and approval of other people. After all, if you didn't care what they thought of you, you'd hardly be in a sweat about it.

Take a look at a few smart, trendy people who've hit middle-age.

Underneath the surface confidence they live lives of "quiet desperation", because that's really all that an ego-based life has to offer anyone.

They're also full of fears and insecurities, but unlike you, instead of trying finding a real way out, they've devoted themselves to creating a shallow persona that conceals their anxieties to the casual observer.

Then, thank god for the suffering that will eventually free you and ask yourself why on earth you should crave the acceptance and approval of such people?

In truth, they're more deserving of your pity than your admiration.

And when you do see them clearly for what they are and begin to pity them, you find that you certainly won't crave their acceptance and approval any more. :lol:

Agnieszka
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:31 pm
Location: Poland
Contact:

Post by Agnieszka » Fri May 04, 2007 12:57 pm

JD,
although I'm not the main recipient of your post, thank you so much for it. I printed it out and studied your advice for Julia and me, (practical, given step by step-wonderful!), very thoroughly.
Issue no 1: if I look at other people we talked about as ones deserving my pity (I do it in fact in my life which is condemned by people close to me) not admiration, I immediately feel as if I am "better", "higher in vibration :lol: ". And this makes me feel arrogant, prideful. All men are equal, you know, ashes to ashes, dust to dust...
Issue no 2: in the pointers for Julia you said about that cute Buddhist technique - did you actually use it for an extremely strong painbody, resulting from real traumas, or painful but scattered thoughtforms?
Issue no 3: I'm so happy that you succeeded!
Thanks!!!

eseward
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:27 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Post by eseward » Fri May 04, 2007 4:48 pm

Outstanding post IMO, Agnieszka.
Agnieszka wrote:Today I allowed myself (once and forever!) to be "different". That's not real me, it's just a kind of strange computer, machine I managed to build throughout my life.
Exactly. I do this by referring to that machine as "It" (which is the false self/ego-self/conditioned mind/etc).
Agnieszka wrote:Try to let yourself to feel guilty and remind yourself that it's a psychological structure, a conglomerate you created, not real you. Don't fight it, try to just let it be.
Exactly. It isn't you, it represents errored conclusions accepted along the way, which we agree with and identified with, and which now operate in an automated way within us.

I think it's important to remember that the distortions that these conclusions make in the way our world looks is not obvious until we have successfully disidentified with the original distorting conclusions. Only then does the world look the way it really it (which is actually very non-threatening and is actually all good).

eseward
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:27 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Post by eseward » Fri May 04, 2007 4:59 pm

Very nice post, JD.

Ives
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: Tuscany, Italy

Post by Ives » Fri May 04, 2007 5:50 pm

JD wrote: ... we need to take a look at what thought-forms actually are and how they operate in the collective and individual consciousness.

Thoughts are living things. They have energy, intelligence and an agenda, which (like that of all living entities) is to acquire enough energy to ensure their own survival and prosperity for as long as possible.
I sometimes think of these thought-forms as survivors of a shipwreck: huddling together, clinging to each other, afloat on the ocean and desperately trying to survive a little longer.

Continuing the analogy can be fun. Previous to the ship crashing, they were happily on-board, chattering away, dominating everything and oblivious to the ocean. Then came the collision with the iceberg. The iceberg is Eckhart Tolle :) (or any effective spiritual teaching or spontaneous awakening).

After the crash, the remaining thought-forms can be dissolved more easily if handled one by one, but they cling together for strength.
Thus, the psychological thought-form that justifies everything on the basis of my lousy childhood teams up with the low-self-esteem thought-form and the fear thought-form and powered by the pain-body they gain some impact.

But separate them out and they are weak. One will drift off on its own and get eaten by positive thoughts. Another will float to the bottom and dissolve on its own. One by one the various thought-forms that in turn dominated your consciousness are shown up to be charades. (Gurdjieff called these thought-forms ‘I’s, because each time one enters my consciousness I empower it by saying ‘I’ to it).

One way to disrupt the steady stream of thought-forms is to take a few moments now and then during the day in which to sit in silence with your eyes closed and, as much as possible, allow stillness to be the overriding sensation. The thought-forms are deprived of some of their power by this exercise. When they come back, they seem less threatening.

User avatar
JD
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:35 pm

Post by JD » Fri May 04, 2007 7:16 pm

Agnieszka wrote:
Issue no 1: if I look at other people we talked about as ones deserving my pity (I do it in fact in my life which is condemned by people close to me) not admiration, I immediately feel as if I am "better", "higher in vibration :lol: ". And this makes me feel arrogant, prideful. All men are equal, you know, ashes to ashes, dust to dust...
Yes, but you're not pitying them because you're better than them, you're pitying them because you're exactly the same as them.

You're lost in identification with painful, delusional thought-forms about who you really are and so are they. The only difference is that you know that you're lost and you're doing something about it.

I used to think myself superior to certain people - "brainwashed" religious fundamentalists, for example - until I began to understand something of the nature of thought-forms.

When I understood how we create and endlessly re-energize the very thought-forms that trap us and torture us, I realized that the only thing that separated me from the religious zealots was the nature of the thought-forms from which our respective prisons were constructed.

They were hopelessly trapped through identification with thought-forms of empty superstition; I was hopelessly trapped through identification with thought-forms of fear.

The mechanism was identical. Only the content of the thought-forms differed.

Perhaps "pity" was an unfortunate choice of word. "Compassion" for fellow-sufferers might be better.
Issue no 2: in the pointers for Julia you said about that cute Buddhist technique - did you actually use it for an extremely strong painbody, resulting from real traumas, or painful but scattered thoughtforms?
The former, but both, really. At the worst point I went out for a walk in the snow in the middle of a freezing December.

Before I'd walked a hundred yards my face and body were drenched in sweat, so great was the abstract fear that engulfed me. It was a living hell, believe me.

The great value of the Buddhist technique is that it quickly creates the habit of objectifying thought-forms that arise in the mind.

As soon as you personalize a thought-form it becomes autobiographical - part of the dreary soap-opera that we mistake for real life.

When I started using this technique, I was fortunate enough to come across ET's work and that's what really showed me the way out.

But I'm not sure I would have made it if I'd just read The Power Of Now.

What I did was put several of ET's audiobooks on my MP3 player so that I could listen to them every day whenever I had a few spare minutes.

This practise was absolutely essential for me because I quickly discovered that information I thought I'd digested and understood was more or less forgotten (or at least, not put into practice) only a day or two later.

I've always been what Americans call a "quick study", but for the first time in my life it seemed that my mind was like a sieve.

Constant repetition was necessary in order to make the teachings a permanent part of my consciousness.

This was very puzzling to me, especially given the simplicity of ET's teachings.

Of course, now I understand only too well that the mind puts up massive resistance to anything that threatens its domination of consciousness. :)

So, I persisted with the work and gradually, I succeeded in de-energizing these toxic thought-forms.

In 18 months I was free of all the mechanical, repetitive thought-forms that had been tormenting me for years. My mind was calm and quiet.

Best of all, although I believed that this madness had virtually destroyed my mind forever, I discovered that beneath all those raging thought-forms was a layer of deep, unending bliss that remained wholly untouched by everything that had gone on in my conscious mind.

The deep sense of peace and joy was pure ecstasy after a major breakdown and years of intense psychological suffering.

But it wasn't just that my mind had slowed down. The weight of my past had also dropped away.

Later I read a comment by the German writer Gerta Ital, written at the end of her Zen studies in Japan. She said that her life seemed like a film - as though it had been lived by someone else. That's exactly how I felt and still feel today.

It's a blissful liberation. :)
Issue no 3: I'm so happy that you succeeded!
So am I! :)

I owe a great debt to ET.

I concur with Webwanderer's comments in another post:
Webwanderer wrote: I’ve studied and practiced ancient traditions for decades and nothing came close to the impact of the modern teaching of Tolle and others. In truth, it seems the older the tradition and more distant the teacher, the more difficult was the absorption into relevance.
I also believe that the actual vibrations of ET's voice transmit presence and have a special value, which is why I prefer to listen to his audiobooks.

It's wonderful to visit this forum and read so many posts that contain little details that demonstrate beyond all doubt that others are experiencing profound transformations of consciousness through putting ET's teaching into practice.

I wish you the very best of luck in your endeavours, Agnieszka. :)

eseward
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:27 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Post by eseward » Fri May 04, 2007 9:14 pm

Ives wrote:I sometimes think of these thought-forms as survivors of a shipwreck: huddling together, clinging to each other, afloat on the ocean and desperately trying to survive a little longer.
Very cool analogy, Ives. Thanks! :)

eseward
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:27 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Post by eseward » Fri May 04, 2007 9:26 pm

Another terrific post IMO, JD. Really excellent stuff.
JD wrote:When I understood how we create and endlessly re-energize the very thought-forms that trap us and torture us, I realized that the only thing that separated me from the religious zealots was the nature of the thought-forms from which our respective prisons were constructed.

The mechanism was identical. Only the content of the thought-forms differed.
Beautiful.
JD wrote:As soon as you personalize a thought-form it becomes autobiographical - part of the dreary soap-opera that we mistake for real life.
Massively important statement here IMO. Personalize = identify with.
JD wrote:Of course, now I understand only too well that the mind puts up massive resistance to anything that threatens its domination of consciousness.
Yep.
JD wrote:I discovered that beneath all those raging thought-forms was a layer of deep, unending bliss that remained wholly untouched by everything that had gone on in my conscious mind.
Yes, we discover that we apparently are not capable of or susceptible to any permanent damage. :)

User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6771
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Post by Webwanderer » Fri May 04, 2007 10:57 pm

JD Wrote:
I also believe that the actual vibrations of ET's voice transmit presence and have a special value, which is why I prefer to listen to his audiobooks.
I agree with your take on ET’s voice. It seems to have a quality that radiates a kind of resonance frequency that one may attune with, enhancing one’s clarity of presence. There are others who display this trait. Adyashanti, in his “Spontaneous Awakening” audio also has this quality.

I believe this attribute is common to those who speak from a deep union with the Natural State. Their words, when spoken from an awareness of genuine clarity, speak to the core of one ready to hear Truth. Such is the history of the great teachers of antiquity, many of which resulted in religions and philosophies. Today, we are blessed with many such teachers, and communication systems that increase availability and access from practically anywhere.

Generally, in our everyday lives, when we speak to each other, it is a dialog from ego to ego, even though we may be speaking of matters of spirit and consciousness. But when one is attuned to, and speaking from, the clarity of the Natural State, the dialog becomes communication from Essence to Essence. The recipient of such communication is often drawn out of ego identification, and into a resonant clarity with that Natural State.

It may not last but a few minutes or hours, but it is a genuine taste of Divine Being that leaves a lasting impression, not so easily discounted. Frequent experience of this Natural State inevitably dissolves one’s long standing ego attachments, allowing presence-awareness to bloom.

Clarity nurtures Clarity. Presence deepens with open acclimation to silent Awareness, and a shift in perception follows; a perception free of concepts and judgements, desires and fear. It is a perception of Divine acceptance of unfolding creation, where feelings of gratitude ripen into Unconditional Love, and Life becomes joy.

Annie
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Post by Annie » Sat May 05, 2007 4:30 am

Thanks to everyone for this helpful thread, and especial thanks to JD for such a clear and comprehensive method of working with repetitive thoughtforms.

I've just been listening to Eckart's "In the Presence of a Great Mystery" - files 7 & 8.
He reminds us that thoughtforms are "things", so when we are overcome by them, we are in deep object consciousness. Thus even a tiny bit of Presence - such as listening to the spaces between the words when people talk, or taking the cup of tea consciously from them (simply knowing that here you are, taking the cup of tea - karma yoga really), will alleviate the suffering by lifting you right out of it.
I too had much discomfort in large crowds. The other simple exercise which helps me a lot is simply following the breath.
Like JD, I am mostly free from mental torture now. It is another world.

Regards,
Annie.

eseward
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:27 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Post by eseward » Sat May 05, 2007 11:51 am

Annie wrote:Like JD, I am mostly free from mental torture now. It is another world.
Terrific to hear, Annie. Congrats. :)

me?
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:58 pm

Post by me? » Sat May 05, 2007 10:52 pm

To be honest, I did not (yet) read the entire thread, so forgive me, if I say things that have been said before - infact I should be working hard for my money, but this forum has an almost mangnetic appeal to me. :)

Adyashanti was mentioned already and from his satsang, I learned one crucial thing about freedom:
Freedom doesn't mean being free from anything.
Freedom means being free to be and experience everything that occurs.
I always longed for the time, when my 'ego and it's needs would be transceded' and I would eventually be free from all this negativity.
Instead I now grant myself the freedom to experience all those negative things.
No more being free from fear - now it's being free to be fearful. :)
When you remember this approach, ET's power of surrender kicks in immediately.
Simply accepting the negative feelings will calm them - not completely and not immediately and not forever, but you will instantly feel a relief, when you say yourself, "Ok, I'm having ruminating thoughts." - I experienced that actually speaking this out aloud makes it more effective (you might be percieved by others as schizophrenic, so be aware :P ) - this can even within few seconds make you laugh about it, simply because you noticed those thoughts.


Alright. Now I've been free to let this thread distract me from work. Now I'm free to want to continue. :D

Love!

Agnieszka
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:31 pm
Location: Poland
Contact:

Post by Agnieszka » Sat May 05, 2007 11:26 pm

I've clung to this thread of Julia and I'm gaining a lot from it. I'm sure she does too.
I'm very grateful for JD's pointers, seriously. I liked the Buddha-mind way most, but when I started applying it yesterday, here is what happened: "Oh, look. There's: anger, fear, unease, confusion, plans for the future, worries about children, about the cat, recurring thoughts about this and that, ruminating thoughts about what the world should be like, anxiety concerning health.... (plus many others) in the Buddha-mind today!". I went into thinking and enumerating chaos and then I could do nothing but enumerate. As an ADHD-er, I probably have more inside (chattering mind and very "emotional body" taken together) :lol: than all people on this forum. I will continue this as an addition to ET's way nonetheless. Thank you JD.

Post Reply