A tiny bit of clarity

Here you may share how the words Eckhart Tolle have affected your life.
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astaroth
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Re: A tiny bit of clarity

Post by astaroth » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:51 am

shappy, my friend... Again I feel spontaneous attachment to you. You seem to have the same tendency as me not to be satisifed with the "usual stuff" and take nothing as definitely. I could describe it a hundred times better in german but I hope you know what I mean.
You are an intelligent young man, I see that. And you want to see the truth rather than just feeling good. I'm sure the answer will find you :wink: - truth will find you.

Like you, I have seen my true nature, one time very, very clearly. And I have these moments of clarity. But there isn't that big break in life, there's something missing, isn't it? It grows to a mental crutch, as you notice. Without remembering yourself all the time it goes away. It doesn't feel real. It's in the head. Isn't it?

Maybe I'm completely wrong but it appears to me to be like that for you.

The last weeks I thought a lot of times, when I visited this forum, about all the members here. Some still seem to struggle and make just little improvements in their conditionings, in accepting their pain-bodies or whatever. And there are some here who seem to have read PON and something inside them just clicked. They didn't have to work anything out, except for some basics.
I can tell you, I don't believe in this working-out any more.
Others have gone through long years of spritual seeking. Of course, they didn't find what they were seeking. They were really disappointed. And then they read that what they seek is what they already are and then suddenly there was also this click.

I started almost directly with the truth. And now that I understand the truth very well (as much as one can understand about it, but I am also a guy with a brain able to work abstractly) I sometimes feel like a child who has opened it's christmas presents before christmas. Something of the sacredness that makes a christmas present a christmas present is destroyed.

And then I sometimes think: Have I got in touch with the truth too early? Have I already over-analyzed it? And because I see "myself" from a more detached perspective I read all the names of all these members on the forum with all their questions, all the people living around me. It is the same which we all want. And I felt that there is /i] fate. I can't really explain this. If fate decided that I will get in touch with the truth too early... My ego, of course, wants spiritual progress.

But.... If I haven't got in touch with the truth too early, if it will reveal itself on another level to me one day - well, why worry?
If fate decided that astaroth will transcendend itself correctly :lol: that's good. But if fate decided that astaroth will get in touch with truth but not be ready for it in this life - well, what can I do about it?

But this is all future-stuff. If there is "enlightenment" in the future or not... I continued being present, continued "spiritual work". Because what else can I do? Dream on my dream??? No, I can't do this any more. So I go on stepping away from my stroy from time to time as often as it naturally happens but don't push myself to be "more present", because also mental silence can be an egic goal, as I've seen. I sometimes wonder if also this is not an egoic trick to keep the stories alive :roll: I don't know. Maybe I will post this here on this forum soon. :wink:

don't know how I shell feel. strange time. :?

Just to give a little direct comment to your post: I don't mind sand castles ;)

hope you are well,
astaroth
...you might remember me from such educational films as "Zen for couch-potatoes - The wisdom of never doing anything" or "Buddha from da hood - Was he a brother?"

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Re: A tiny bit of clarity

Post by kiki » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:22 am

I know presence. I got "trapped" in presence and letting the moment/"what is" be.
I would like to hear about this.
But after being (twice... for literally a split second each time) all that flew out the window. All that knowledge was instantly rendered useless; absolutely and completely useless.
I would like to hear about this as well.

For me, when there is the simple resting in the reality of what I really am there is nothing going on in the mind because mind has abated - there is no knowledge, no analysis, no judgment, no ideas, no understanding, no labeling of anything, no me, no other - no past, no present, no future - just an open field of something (which it isn't; it is no-thing) I can only refer to as "awareness/ consciousness/ knowingness/ being or presence" which can't be pinned down with any concept when attempting to explain it, which is incomprehensible to the mind. Does this clarify to you where I am coming from?

If I use the word "presence", I do not mean to imply that there is "someone" who is present who is practicing something; it's just a word, a pointer. Presence to me means that through the form of the body that seems to be here, Being is recognized as the underlying reality, but in no way do I mean the "I" as a separate entity practices "presence" to experience Being. Being is always here, it's always "present". The sense of Being within form is often described as the sense of "presence" and I have no trouble seeing what that means. I don't limit the word "presence" to the practice of "mindfulness" (which has its usefulness but isn't necessary). Even mindfulness has its pitfalls as a practice.

Perhaps you could give it your best shot at explaining it as you see it. What were the circumstances when these two "split second" realizations of being were revealed? What would you tell someone to "do" who wants the same experience of Being that you are talking about?
shappy wrote:Imagine that your mind is a giant sandbox. You sit there and play with sand (i.e. concepts) all day. You stumble upon Tolle and you learn how to make big, beautiful, and intricate sand castles. However, you're still pushing around the same sand. Life is better but you are still trapped in the sandbox.

I'm not sure you have grasped Tolle's teaching if this is what you are believing he is pointing to. He clearly describes how mind is the root of suffering, and how consciousness is what you really are. It's getting past the illusions of the mind and the sandcastles it builds that "enlightenment" refers to.
shappy wrote:When one is being, the sandbox and all the sand castles are automatically seen through. It instantly "disappears". And I mean instantly.
Being always is. And as we both agree, there is no "me", only an illusion of one which usually covers the recognition of it. When the presence of Being is unobstructed by mind/ego it becomes obvious (to no one) that the mind creates illusions with every concept it creates; all the sand castles are seen through and getting lost in those sand castles comes to and end as the attachment to ego/mind dissolves.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: A tiny bit of clarity

Post by Onceler » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:29 am

kiki wrote:
I don't limit the word "presence" to the practice of "mindfulness" (which has its usefulness but isn't necessary). Even mindfulness has its pitfalls as a practice.
Could you say more about this. How does mindfullness differ than what Tolle teaches, to be in the now, or presence? What are the pitfall of mindfullness?

I need to know because I have myself convinced I practice mindfullness....
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Re: A tiny bit of clarity

Post by kiki » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:03 am

Onceler wrote:How does mindfullness differ than what Tolle teaches, to be in the now, or presence? What are the pitfall of mindfullness?
To the degree it keeps in place the "idea of me" which is practicing something it is a pitfall. It can turn into a "spiritual practice" that feeds the ego ("Hey, I am going to get something special that I wouldn't ordinarily get if not for this "spiritual practice" - spiritual pride can set in), or keeps the ego intact but on a more subtle level. If I am not mindful what is "my" experience?

To the degree it removes the sense of separate self by subverting the mind's tendency to remain fixated in mental stories it is a useful thing. Can the "practice" drop away, or is there something which feels it needs to "keep going" with its practice?
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: A tiny bit of clarity

Post by Onceler » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:04 pm

Yes, I see what you are saying and I struggle with that "specialness" of practice. Could mindfullness encompass an awareness of the ego's need to co-opt and seperate? I try to be aware of this, but of course don't always catch it.
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Re: A tiny bit of clarity

Post by kiki » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:45 pm

Could mindfullness encompass an awareness of the ego's need to co-opt and seperate?
Nicely stated - yes, that's the "best" kind of mindfulness. And when ego "gets spotted" as it arises, there is the opportunity to relax and let ego go. I would characterize this as the essence of being present so that you can rest in the natural state of awareness. While in that natural state there is no need to be mindful of anything in particular, only alert to when there is a straying away from what is present and reverting back into ego and its stories. The clarity of what's going on becomes firmly established and the tendency to get lost diminishes - awareness/consciousness emerges from the background and no longer gets overshadowed by events, thoughts, and emotions.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: A tiny bit of clarity

Post by shappy » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:36 pm

hey astaroth, it's nice to hear from you. Thanks for the kind words... I fully reciprocate.
Like you, I have seen my true nature, one time very, very clearly. And I have these moments of clarity. But there isn't that big break in life, there's something missing, isn't it? It grows to a mental crutch, as you notice. Without remembering yourself all the time it goes away. It doesn't feel real. It's in the head. Isn't it?
yes, I know what you mean.
astaroth wrote:The last weeks I thought a lot of times, when I visited this forum, about all the members here. Some still seem to struggle and make just little improvements in their conditionings, in accepting their pain-bodies or whatever. And there are some here who seem to have read PON and something inside them just clicked. They didn't have to work anything out, except for some basics.
I can tell you, I don't believe in this working-out any more.
I don't believe in it either. The thing that I find "wrong" in this, is the constant need to check the mind. A thought comes in and we think that it's an egoic thought and so we adjust our thinking to not think these thoughts anymore. Or, we adjust our thinking to simply let these thoughts be. All that's doing is conditioning the mind to be a certain way. We keep doing this until we reach a balance where we have minimal amount of thoughts that we consider bad or egoic. Now, the state we reach is a much better state than the one we found ourselves in before... that's not in dispute. But it is still a conditioned state. It is certainly not who we really are.

Thanks for sharing the rest of your thoughts. I think that there is a lot of genuine help out there but we have to be honest and sensitive enough to notice it. It's a very individual journey and it's all very wonderful.
astaroth wrote:Just to give a little direct comment to your post: I don't mind sand castles ;)
Yeah, sand castles can be very pretty. I don't mind them either... they're much better than digging yourself into a sand pit ;)
astaroth wrote:hope you are well,
astaroth
thanks friend. Take care.

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Re: A tiny bit of clarity

Post by shappy » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:00 pm

kiki wrote:I would like to hear about [getting "trapped" in presence].
well, since you ask so nicely ;)

The sense of presence came from the conditioning of the mind. This conditioning was extremely subtle and it came about from a genuine experience of seeing my true nature. This made it seem very real and well intentioned. However, it was all still coming from who I think I am. Hence the trap.
kiki wrote:I would like to hear about [being] as well.
Well, it's an instant freedom from who we think we are. I instantly "saw" how our society is created based on mind-constructs. How the feelings we feel are creations of the mind. It was not a slow revelation... it was a slap in the face. And it was not something I had to convince myself of... at all. It was completely different from "what is"/Now/presence. All that stuff comes about from who we think we are. There was absolutely nothing "beyond" this "place" of being. Also, just to clarify, all these interpretations came after the experience (and the experience is "mine").
kiki wrote:For me, when there is the simple resting in the reality of what I really am there is nothing going on in the mind because mind has abated - there is no knowledge, no analysis, no judgment, no ideas, no understanding, no labeling of anything, no me, no other - no past, no present, no future - just an open field of something (which it isn't; it is no-thing) I can only refer to as "awareness/ consciousness/ knowingness/ being or presence" which can't be pinned down with any concept when attempting to explain it, which is incomprehensible to the mind. Does this clarify to you where I am coming from?
But from where is this "open field of something" perceived? The thing is, when pressed, you are able to say all the "right" things. However, it is clear from your other posts that we are not talking about the same thing.

A couple examples taken from the first page of this thread:
kiki wrote:If you just stop and consider it, what value does worry have? None that I've ever discovered, so it's pointless to feed it by thinking more about it.
You/your mind has made a judgement on the value of "worry". Based on that, you do whatever it is you do with that thought/feeling when it comes up in the moment. Do you see how this is conditioned thinking? This is nothing like actually being. Absolutely nothing. You can't do kiki and be at the same time.
kiki wrote:When fear comes, which is very seldom now (actually, I can't remember the last time I was gripped by any kind of fear), I immediately realize that it is future based and release it. When thoughts come about the future that could turn into "fearful thoughts" I just see them for what they are and sort of say to myself, "Well, let's see what happens when the time comes. For now I will just stay present."
This is Tolle's "presence". This is not being. Again, clearly you have conditioned your mind to do something with fear. You are able to suppress and extinguish the anxiety of fear as it presents itself to you. That's great and it makes life much easier. You have just constructed a beautiful sand castle. But that is not being.

So, in fact, there is knowledge, analysis, judgment, and labeling. It's just extremely subtle. And if you have actually experienced being then you wouldn't care about "worry" or "fear".

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Re: A tiny bit of clarity

Post by astaroth » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:44 am

What I find great, shappy, is the fact that you don't - like a lot of people here - almost admire kiki and webwanderer and take everything they say as "the wisdom's last point". 8)

But maybe when you heard about all that presence-stuff you somehow acutally made a concept out of it. And now when you hear the moderators saying the things "they always say" (what of course, may be things of great clarity - the truth doesn't change so fast :lol:) you hear your own mental presence-concept behind their words which you connect with it. Of course, this presence-concept didn't work, as any concept can't.

Just an idea.

But I understand the distinction you make and I find this whole discussion highly interesting! I'm really looking forward to the answers of the experienced "conditioners" :lol:
Maybe, just another idea...
To me awakening is nothing more than a shift of the perspective. If you are at a very uncomfortable place and something tells you that there is a hill right next to you. A hill that has no top and can be climbed higher and higher. As you climb up you can of course still see this ugly place, but maybe you decide that it's not worth looking at any more - because for what reason? There are maybe a lot more beautiful things to be looked at as you can now see also the landscape around the ugy place.

And do you maybe not expect a bit too much from yourself and that "spiritual thing"? I understand intellectually that you and me are the same thing at the deepest level. But how could I realize this understanding right now? Isn't it more helpful to find out the reality of my own nature right now? Because that's where I am now.
You can't start a run on the finish line.
Of course, the opportunity is only in the present moment. But no master has even been able to force "real" understanding - which is not something we mentally figure out and then think "aha! that's it! Now I've finally understood!". I think it's more a step-to-step progress, a stairway of little or big "aha!"s. Deeper understanding will come when the time has come and at no other time.
shappy wrote: I don't believe in it either. The thing that I find "wrong" in this, is the constant need to check the mind. A thought comes in and we think that it's an egoic thought and so we adjust our thinking to not think these thoughts anymore. Or, we adjust our thinking to simply let these thoughts be. All that's doing is conditioning the mind to be a certain way. We keep doing this until we reach a balance where we have minimal amount of thoughts that we consider bad or egoic. Now, the state we reach is a much better state than the one we found ourselves in before... that's not in dispute. But it is still a conditioned state. It is certainly not who we really are.
This touched me most and is exactly the same thing I'm struggeling with at the moment.
I think, "being present" - which is a verb - leads very easily to the belief that there must someting be "done" with the thoughts, namely oberserve them, whatever that means. It implies that something's wrong about the simple fact of the existance of a thought which is not discovered when thoughts are not observed. Of course, it can only be the ego which claims to be the observer then.
But observing is not an active thing. Letting everything flow by from a detached perspective is not easy when there is the very, very subtle belief that any practise, any observing or whatever must be "done". It can't be done. But what to do then?
To me the big question is: When I "don't touch" my thoughts at all, the stories go on and on. It is only the ego which doesn't like mental stories, which wants no-mind, which wants silence, which wants "resting in one's natural state", which wants any kind of clarity.

blessings,
asta
...you might remember me from such educational films as "Zen for couch-potatoes - The wisdom of never doing anything" or "Buddha from da hood - Was he a brother?"

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Re: A tiny bit of clarity

Post by kiki » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:10 am

Shappy, I guess I am not making myself clear to you, which is my fault. My reference to "worry" was to point out that it is groundless to begin with; even while being engaged by ego it's useless. Is that so much a "judgment" or a recognition of fact? Ultimately, it isn't real because the "worrier" isn't real.
I instantly "saw" how our society is created based on mind-constructs. How the feelings we feel are creations of the mind. It was not a slow revelation...
"Who" did the "seeing"? From where is this seeing taking place?
You can't do kiki and be at the same time.
Being simply is; it is the background that gives rise to "kiki", and just as you said that you saw society is created based on mind-constructs there is the seeing that "kiki" is too. There is no "convincing" myself that "I" am not real, it is seen. Now, how is your "seeing" different than my explanation? What does the "seeing" for you? Is there some special "seeing" that you are using that I am not?

As for "fear", how is that experienced through "you"? Have you completely lost all conditioned thinking that gives rise to fear? Are you saying that no fear ever returns?

And to repeat a previous question: What do you tell people who want to experience Being and who are struggling with seeing the illusion of the ego? What advice do you have to offer?
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: A tiny bit of clarity

Post by Onceler » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:40 am

I too enjoy the dialouge and I don't feel anyone in the discussion is at risk for being co-opted by anyone else's point of view. People can say whatever on this board and are left to live our own lives.

However, the cross semination of experience and ideas can put a wobble in my ego orbit that will influence how I experience the present. I am forced to think and feel through it, or not.

I also don't see anyone here as "right". A thunderstorm is no more right than a sunset. We are different manifistations of the same process...which is ego erosion? (Mine by the way, seems glacial).

So thank you all for the points of view; frankly, I don't know what some of you are saying half the time, but I still enjoy it!
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Re: A tiny bit of clarity

Post by shappy » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:36 am

astaroth wrote:But maybe when you heard about all that presence-stuff you somehow acutally made a concept out of it. And now when you hear the moderators saying the things "they always say" (what of course, may be things of great clarity - the truth doesn't change so fast :lol:) you hear your own mental presence-concept behind their words which you connect with it. Of course, this presence-concept didn't work, as any concept can't.

Just an idea.
If I understand you correctly, I agree. I did make it into a concept and in many ways (including beyond my comprehension) it is still a concept. And the fact that I am able to "see it in action" is very helpful as well.
astaroth wrote:To me awakening is nothing more than a shift of the perspective. If you are at a very uncomfortable place and something tells you that there is a hill right next to you. A hill that has no top and can be climbed higher and higher. As you climb up you can of course still see this ugly place, but maybe you decide that it's not worth looking at any more - because for what reason? There are maybe a lot more beautiful things to be looked at as you can now see also the landscape around the ugy place.
But isn't this still conditioning? Why try to avoid looking at this ugly place? Having said that, I think it is helpful to climb this hill until you feel that you no longer need to.
astaroth wrote:And do you maybe not expect a bit too much from yourself and that "spiritual thing"?
No, I don't think I expect too much at all.
astaroth wrote:I understand intellectually that you and me are the same thing at the deepest level. But how could I realize this understanding right now? Isn't it more helpful to find out the reality of my own nature right now? Because that's where I am now.
You can't start a run on the finish line.
You'll do whatever is necessary. Like I said before, if you are honest and sensitive enough, you'll recognize what is helpful and what is not. Different things make sense at different times. Just be open and honest. This may sound cheesy but... listen to your heart.
astaroth wrote:This touched me most and is exactly the same thing I'm struggeling with at the moment.
I think, "being present" - which is a verb - leads very easily to the belief that there must someting be "done" with the thoughts, namely oberserve them, whatever that means. It implies that something's wrong about the simple fact of the existance of a thought which is not discovered when thoughts are not observed. Of course, it can only be the ego which claims to be the observer then.
But observing is not an active thing. Letting everything flow by from a detached perspective is not easy when there is the very, very subtle belief that any practise, any observing or whatever must be "done". It can't be done. But what to do then?
To me the big question is: When I "don't touch" my thoughts at all, the stories go on and on. It is only the ego which doesn't like mental stories, which wants no-mind, which wants silence, which wants "resting in one's natural state", which wants any kind of clarity.
I think the key is to come to the realization that everything who we think we are (i.e. ego, the person, etc.) does is fundamentally flawed in its core. The ego is forever destined to push sand around. It's a constant jumble of content... no matter how subtle. No matter how much we fool ourselves into thinking that it is more than what it is... it will never become "it".
Last edited by shappy on Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A tiny bit of clarity

Post by shappy » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:47 am

kiki wrote:"Who" did the "seeing"? From where is this seeing taking place?
As I mentioned earlier, these are interpretations that I had made after the fact.
kiki wrote:Being simply is; it is the background that gives rise to "kiki", and just as you said that you saw society is created based on mind-constructs there is the seeing that "kiki" is too. There is no "convincing" myself that "I" am not real, it is seen. Now, how is your "seeing" different than my explanation? What does the "seeing" for you? Is there some special "seeing" that you are using that I am not?
It is true that being simply is, however to experience this directly will have you reeling. It is an instant shift. There is nothing gradual about it. It is absolutely different from anything that you can imagine. And I'm not trying to be cryptic at all. It is just the simple fact of the matter: It is beyond imagination. There is nothing that happens "there", you are just being in all it's indescribable being-ness. Simply being the utter freedom of who you already are. It is extremely alive and intense yet completely natural. And this was just a split second experience for me. So I can't help but raise an eyebrow when you claim that you often abide in this being-ness and yet you still discuss nonsense like worry and fear.

I mean, if you think that we are talking about the same thing, then you must be abiding in this being-ness a lot. Please tell us in your own words what this feels like. I would love to know.
kiki wrote:As for "fear", how is that experienced through "you"?

I don't know what you mean by "you" (in quotes), but it is experienced through me, shappy. Only the person experiences fear.
kiki wrote:Have you completely lost all conditioned thinking that gives rise to fear? Are you saying that no fear ever returns?
No, of course I have not lost the ability to feel fear. However, I don't have the need to further condition my thinking to alleviate fear. The need you express to subdue fear is clear evidence that we are not talking about the same thing. Secondly, alleviating fear will not have you being. The only reason why you are experiencing a lose of fear is because you have conditioned your mind to do that. Also, regarding that earlier quote of yours about fear, this talk of fear being future-based has absolutely nothing to do with being and everything to do with conditioning.
kiki wrote:And to repeat a previous question: What do you tell people who want to experience Being and who are struggling with seeing the illusion of the ego? What advice do you have to offer?
It is the deepest and simplest immediacy of the direct experience.

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Re: A tiny bit of clarity

Post by Webwanderer » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:14 am

astaroth wrote:What I find great, shappy, is the fact that you don't - like a lot of people here - almost admire kiki and webwanderer and take everything they say as "the wisdom's last point". 8)

But maybe when you heard about all that presence-stuff you somehow acutally made a concept out of it. And now when you hear the moderators saying the things "they always say" (what of course, may be things of great clarity - the truth doesn't change so fast :lol:) you hear your own mental presence-concept behind their words which you connect with it. Of course, this presence-concept didn't work, as any concept can't.

Just an idea.
A good contribution astaroth, very insightful. Not just this quote but the bulk of your post.

It is not uncommon for someone to have an awakening experience and interpret it to be unique. But experiences come and go, where now is eternal. I didn't have shappy's experience, so only he can know its nature. But I have had moments of such clarity that the world in all its apparent chaos seemed quite orderly. But those moments pass, and presence awareness remains with whatever immediate content presents itself. It is here that life is lived.

To the degree that I judge and interpret life's content (and experiences) from a limited ego/mind perspective, I lose clarity in being present. If I try to hold onto past experiences and make sense of their appearance, I risk losing what this moment has to offer. It is those judgments and interpretations that give strength to the sense of personal identity.

One can say that silent clarity is a concept of mind - and from the minds perspective it is - but from the perspective of Essential Awareness, that silent clarity is the space that allows conceptual perspectives to evaporate. From my own experience I find that presence deepens and becomes richer with moments spent in that clear Natural State.

What does this mean in the ultimate scheme of things? I haven't a clue. To attemp such a clarification by means of interpretation and/or comparisons to what others report would be just an invitation to conceptualize what is beyond conception.

You are right to recognize the importance of your own direct experience on life. No teacher can do other than report his/her own perception, from what ever perspective that perception is realized. It is entirely possible for one to perceive life without the lens of ego based concepts, from a perception free of thought based interpretation. My frequent references to clarity are intended to point to this perspective.

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Re: A tiny bit of clarity

Post by shappy » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:21 am

Webwanderer wrote:It is not uncommon for someone to have an awakening experience and interpret it to be unique.
None of this has anything to do with that. I'm simply saying that we are discussing different "things". You may keep your interpretation of what being is. I have no problem with that. But I know that you are not actually being.

Self-realization is not about trying to subdue fear. Tolle will not have you self-realized.
Webwanderer wrote:But those moments pass, and presence awareness remains with whatever immediate content presents itself. It is here that life is lived.
Yes, here is where life is lived. But the main question is: Who is doing the living? Is it who you think you are trying to be who you really are, or the actual immensity of who we really are living in absolute freedom completley separate from any arisings?

Not allowing certain arisings of manifestation to bother you (like fear) is NOT being. And there certainly is no being a certain way. These are just two examples... we are clearly talking about very different "things".

You cannot be who you really are on top of who you think you are. Who you think you are has to completely disappear first. Yes, it's scary shit. You are not the person. It is not you. You cannot go back to being Webwanderer whenever you feel like it. Self-realization leaves no one to be anything. Do you understand the utter magnitude of this? No, you clearly don't.

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