anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

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anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Postby premiumphoto » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:14 am

I was driving home today and wanted to really practice being fully present. The thought came to me that it wasn't so much that I needed to "grasp" hold of enlightenment as it was "dropping" attachments- especially to identification with my thoughts as "me." So for the next few minutes, I sat in the car in stillness, watching everything with no mental commentary. Occasionally there would be a scattered thought go by, but it sounded like an "echo" instead of "me." Another way to describe it is looking at a prestine, newly mowed yard full of green grass that looks like carpet. And every now and then, a dried leaf would blow over it. I would see it come, see it move over the surface of the grass, and see it float off and away. That is how my thoughts seemed to be in this journey home. Just random echos, nothing more. I'm not sure what to make of it other than it was very different from what I have experienced before. Has anyone else experienced this? What does it mean, if anything?
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Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Postby Onceler » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:38 am

Premiumphoto,

I like your descripition, metaphor, of the lawn and the leaves. Yes, I have experienced what you describe, in fact, more and more often. When I experience this my ego expects a big deal, but it's no big deal, from awareness point of view. It is truer to the reality of the awareness/mind dichotomy.

I expect that the longer you and I experience this, the less dichotomy there will be. You are putting space around your thoughts and it is simply quiet and still--that's all. As Byron Katie says, thoughts think her, they are not her, or us.
Be present, be pleasant.
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Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Postby premiumphoto » Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:56 am

Yes. I thought it wasn't a big deal either. But it was different as well as meaningful. No crashing cymbols. But a calm peaceful stream.
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Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Postby Onceler » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:01 pm

premiumphoto wrote:Yes. I thought it wasn't a big deal either. But it was different as well as meaningful. No crashing cymbols. But a calm peaceful stream.


Yes! I don't mean to downplay it. Congratulations on reaching an important level of awareness. It is a big deal from the viewpoint of awareness. I do think it is a meaningful wonderful place to be and our true state. It is just that my ego expects more and becomes restless in this state. Is that the way it is for you?
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Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Postby Sighclone » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:50 pm

pmp -

Actually, despite no fireworks, it is a very big deal. Your description reveals that you can be the witness. The witness to "echo" thoughts can self-define as the one who observes, but does not buy in...does not form full full-thoughts from these little wisps.

In my meditation, for years, the beginning of a thought could form, but then vaporize before words or feelings could wrap around it. The Advaita Vedantic Sanskrit phrase is Ritam Bara Pragyam...it means the source of thoughts...the cloud-factory (Thoreau) if you will.

Enlightenment is not about fireworks, except for poor suffering souls like Eckhart Tolle and Byron Katie. For the vast majority of us, small events and baby steps mark the way. You've clearly had one, and moreover, the tone of your post is clearer, lighter, more self-aware..

Andy
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There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Postby Onceler » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:12 am

Spot on, Andy.
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Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Postby premiumphoto » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:16 am

More seems to be going on. Almost every day, my pain body gets triggered by something my wife says or does- usually in some way having to do with my three year old. I could feel the burning inside and no matter how spiritual I tried to be, there would be drama. Today was different. The same things that would usually trigger my pain body happened. But this time there was nothing inside. No movement of energy. No burning sensation. In fact, I said some of the same words I normally say to her when the pain body is triggered, and they were just empty words. Nothing. No anger. Stillness on the inside. I was waiting for the anger but nothing was there. It was like I said the same words to her but they were just a shell with nothing inside. Like when a cicada sheds its skin. The shell of the insect is still there, but the energy in the shell was gone. I could see the shell of my pain body but nothing was inside. I have also found it easier to just turn my mind off. No racing thoughts. Just nothing. And in another encounter with my wife, I was able to just speak the truth of what was happening to her with no drama. No anxiety. All this happened today. I had been "trying hard" to be mindful of my pain body and "trying hard" to watch my emotions and negativity inside me when it came out. Today, there wasn't effort. Same stimulous, similar words by me but just the "skin" of the pain body remained.

Much love,

Don
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Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Postby premiumphoto » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:43 pm

I like your baby steps analogy Andy. I think I've had one. I'm not too worried about what happens next. Just feel more at peace and more accepting of what is. I have been working on a sort of spiritual journey book for my daughter in hopes she can use it as a starting point and wont have to reinvent the wheel. The world just seems crazy to me. My own extended family thinks genocide is keeping with their "Christian" values. I hope I can create something different in my daughter. Thank you for all your insights. This is a great corner of the internet.


peace,

Don
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Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Postby moonmissy » Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:51 am

Congratulations Don,

On rediscovering the true you. The one "who watches" is the true self that we all forgot. When we accept, surrender, and continue to watch the five agregates (form, sensation, perception, mental formations and consciousness) in it's rising and demise, then we will begin to see deeply and understand that which never has a beginning and an end.

I call this state "flowing"....just like the leaves flowing and watching it flow, no effort made, nothing to hold on....everything comes and goes and we dwell as the "one who watches" all.

But remember, surrender to the joy that comes from thinking,and the thinking "ah...I made progress too." :lol:
Watch that too! :roll:
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Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Postby Sighclone » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:15 pm

moonmissy makes a subtle and important point. "Oh wondrous spiritual me" is an ego-story also. But the falling of veils does occur, and the clarity and peace may feel new. It's more like there is less of the old trappings and condtioning than progressing somewhere. When I say "feel new", what I'm really saying is "feel authentic", which in a way is "feeling familiar...something long forgotten is feeling returned."

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Postby premiumphoto » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:42 am

Yes. I hesitated to even make this thread, thinking perhaps ego needed a story to tell. But I thought it might be helpful. And ego can hide in NOT sharing too. I have also discovered that before a few days ago, I could watch my anger or pain body arise and then fall away. Now, it seems like "I" or "consciousness" has arisen first and there is no room for the pain body. I'm not sure if I am even explaining it correctly. When a stimulus that would most often trigger my pain body happens, instead of observing my pain body, "consciousness" got there in my awareness first BEFORE the pain body. So that there was only consciousness to be aware of and no pain body. Does that make sense at all? All of this is new to me.
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Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Postby Sighclone » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:26 am

It makes excellent sense to me, premiumphoto. I had similar experiences. The Japanese Zen word is kensho. This experience may pass or become so normal that the "newness" will fade. It's all good. I'm not hearing a lot of ego in your posts...

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Postby kiki » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:51 pm

When a stimulus that would most often trigger my pain body happens, instead of observing my pain body, "consciousness" got there in my awareness first BEFORE the pain body. So that there was only consciousness to be aware of and no pain body. Does that make sense at all? All of this is new to me.


Yes, it makes perfect sense - you stated it quite well. As one becomes more consciously established in being/awareness painbody eventually implodes along with the entity who would identify with it. Then those old triggers no longer have any conditioned responses to draw upon - the reservoir of painbody has dried up. And what has supplanted those responses? Awareness, which was always there but is now no longer being overshadowed.
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Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Postby dagobert » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:22 pm

Great post premiumphoto, inspires me a lot.

I need to ask you if you had any idea what had triggered this shift in your conciousness, because being the observer 24:7 is pretty much the ultimate goal isn't it ? I manage to observe my sensations, but for the others poles I just see them right after :roll: .
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Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Postby Sighclone » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:32 pm

dagobert -

I think I would rephrase:
because being the observer 24:7 is pretty much the ultimate goal isn't it?


as "Experiencing forever that the only self there is and ever was is not personal, it is Awareness itself" is closer to what might be termed an "ultimate goal."

...other comments?...

Namaste, Andy
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