anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Here you may share how the words Eckhart Tolle have affected your life.
User avatar
dagobert
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:12 pm

Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Post by dagobert » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:49 pm

thank you sighclone.

I believe this comes from a good intention, however I feel you just felt the urge to get rid of the "goal" word which is forbidden (because a goal can't be now and so on..), but it really is just a word.

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Post by Sighclone » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:58 pm

Ok dagobert, yes, "goal" is a problematical word, but "shift" is Ok? The whole deal of "getting enlightened is wrong because we are already enlightened" is an argument that carries a little bit of weight...

But not much.

However, the real issue I had was with being the observer, which implies a creature of some kind who observes something - that suggests duality. "Observer status", in my experience is a step on the "path/no path." But not the final step. That step is beyond explanation. The only self which remains after that step is a footprint.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

premiumphoto
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:06 am

Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Post by premiumphoto » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:27 am

"I need to ask you if you had any idea what had triggered this shift in your conciousness"

I think it is a variety of things. In another post, I mentioned that I have been going through the same type situation that my dad went through that lead to his suicide. The specifics don't matter. But I remember Eckhart saying how you can use experiences like this to wake up. I made the conscious decision to start fully accepting what I'm going through since I have not been successful in changing it. And just watch what happens.

Then, it was as if a window opened for me. Instead of the worry and anxiety, there was a stillness that I could be aware of. Out of that stillness came direction. Not in a big booming voice. But a knowing. A direction that seemed intuitive. My problems were not being solved by my pain body creating anxiety and pain. When I look at what was happening through consciousness, I could see that my pain body somehow thought if it created enough unhappiness and suffering, things would change. It was, as Eckhart puts it, madness.

Then, several days later, I made this post at the top. I was still using a lot of "effort" to constantly watch the pain body but even so, there was a window that opened up for me to a deeper place where I could intuit that place of stillness where the answers are. I had a five minute drive in no-mind. That is, I looked with consciousness but with no labels. Just silence.

I have always thought that thinking was the only way to solve problems and wondered why shutting down my mind so to speak could be of any value. After this, when a trigger would happen that would normally brig up the pain body, I noticed that there was only a "shell" there- like a cicada shell on a tree. It looks like a bug from a distance, but there is nothing inside. It looked like the pain body but there was no energy inside it.

The conditioned response came (the shell) but no energy was inside it- meaning no anger or anxiety. After this, when the trigger happened, consciousness got into my awareness first before even the shell of the pain body (conditioned response). Now it seems easier to go into the stillness and no-mind. It has been a very gentle process. Nothing dramatic. I am trying my best to have no expectations and just flow with it instead of labeling it. I understand what Eckhart means now when he says when problems arise, so does consciousness to a greater level. There has been zero drama since all of this started.

Moderator edit: Broken into paragraphs to improve readability.

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Post by Sighclone » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:00 am

pmp -

It is always a joy to watch natural health return to people. I have a pretty keen sense of detecting authenticity in prose. Especially when the words "I did it!! Ta da!!" or such a message is not present. Its absence, the absence of a gloating ego is clear in your last post. As an artist, you have a special vision which did inform your images there - thank you for that, too.

Please continue to share your discoveries. For every comment post in this forum there are at least ten silent readers, premiumphoto. Those of us who jabber away have far less to offer than those like you who are waking up. The play-by-play is selfless and invaluable.

Be well, namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

premiumphoto
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:06 am

Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Post by premiumphoto » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:34 am

Thanks Andy. I really wanted the post to be helpful to people. When I started it, I wasn't aware I would go deeper into all of this. I do tend to think in pictures when explaining what is happening and hope the analogies are helpful. It really is almost like looking at a picture when I decribe it. It is also almost like the awareness of what is going on gets translated into the word pictures- like the stray thoughts being like a leaf flowing over a perfect green lawn, or an "eco" that isn't real , or the shell of the pain body being like the cicada shell. It ISN'T that. But the words and pictures are my best attempt at pointing to what it is. Again, I hope it is helpful. I have not shared any of this with anyone in my life, being mindful of egos need for stories and pats on the back.


peace,

Don

User avatar
dagobert
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:12 pm

Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Post by dagobert » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:11 am

thank you premiumphoto

User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6824
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:59 pm

PmP, thanks for sharing that beautiful discription of awakening to presence. I'm sure it will inspire anyone who is fortunate enough to read it. My heartfelt congratulations on your return to clarity. Life will still have its challenges, and you may yet fall back to old habits, but unlike before you will now have an oasis in which to rest and recoup. With added experience in the clear state, it will continue to grow in its influance of your daily life. That has been my experience.

WW

premiumphoto
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:06 am

Further Insights and observations

Post by premiumphoto » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:05 am

I wanted to share some insights and observations derived from my recent experiences with awareness. I know that many of you are much further down the road then I am and your return insights are welcome and appreciated. First, in reflecting on what, for me, were quite wonderful epiphanies, I have been struck at how subtle and completely without fanfare the observations have been. In fact, had my mind not been quiet, I don't think I would have been aware of what was really happening. The thoughts that had been racing through my head were largely unproductive and simply served as "static" which prevented me from really "seeing" the reality of awareness. When I had the experience of no-mind in the car on the way home, it was like turning off a tv that wasn't on a particular channel, so that I stopped thinking through a cloud of static. In fact, I stopped thinking for those few short minutes except for the "echo" of thought. The mental static was distorting my perceptions of reality much like having a bad tv reception. The next day, while observing the "shell" of the pain body, if I had been lost in my old mind, I don't think I would have made that observation because it was so subtle.

It is amazing how much awareness is lost by the distortions of the mental static an unfocus mind produces. And I had been identifying with the static as "me." Everything I have experienced the past few days has been so subtle, so gentle. My sense of it is that awareness has always been there, covered up by layers of mental thinking static, pain body, and ego. And that what has been going on has been a stripping away of these things, rather than "getting" something. Or "finding" something "out there".

It reminds me of the story Eckhart told of a monk who was passing by a beggar who was sitting on an old box. The monk said he had nothing to give him but perhaps he could look under the box he was sitting on. The beggar protested that he had been sitting there for years and there was no reason to look under it- but he finally did- to find much gold. The monk really didn't "give" the beggar anything. But he did help him discover what was always there. I get a strong sense of this. In fact, what I really want to say is "that is what I see when I look at it." These observations of mine seem like looking at a picture instead of contemplating or thinking about things. That is another major shift I have noticed. I have always been one to think, think, think. It seems awkward to say "that is what I see when I look at it." It doesn't seem to make sense when put like this. But I don't feel like I am "getting" insights or thinking about truth. It "feels" like I am looking at a picture. I think that is why I have been explaining a lot of what has been happening to me with word pictures. Something I have not really done much of in my normal communications. Now I understand why so much of Buddhism is taught with word pictures. The word pictures are not the truth but it is how the brain translates what awareness is seeing.

Does any of this make sense to anyone? Despite the length of this post, I am at a loss for words. But I realize so clearly how absurd it is for anyone to claim to be a "great" teacher of truth. All that the "great" teachers are doing is "looking at" what is there and telling you about it the best they can. It is like two boys that sneak over to the circus tent. The tent is closed and the Circus is preparing for a show. There is a hole in the tent that one of the boys can peer into if he stands on the shoulders of the other. So one of the boys peers in. The other boy asks him what he sees. He says he sees Elephants and jugglers and clowns doing tricks and explains everything he can see through the small hole. The other boy does not say his friend is a "great teacher of the circus." All he did is look at what was there. The universe did not impart some special knowledge of the circus to the boy. The boy merely observed what is. All "great" teachers are merely observers of what is. The boy isn't "special", as any other child could look through the hole the same way he did. Perhaps they trade places and the other boy looks in. But this time, he sees other things the first boy didn't see. He sees a tightrope walker on a unicycle. They go back home and tell all their friends about what they saw. None of them thinks "We should build a shrine to these boys and have them teach us about the circus. They are such great teachers." Rather, they all want to look through the hole themselves. And better yet, go see the full production of the circus! That is what it means for a teacher to point to the truth. All the words and pictures and explaining ISN'T the truth but POINTS there. A "great" teacher should say, "stop looking at me and go look in the hole for yourself. " All "great" teachers are great pointers. That is why I think Eckhart resonates so strongly with me. He says here is the hole, look in. To wake up now, not sometime in the future when I have mastered some technique or someone has pronounced me "spiritual." When confronted with a problem, I used to go "think" about the problem. Now I go "look" at the solution. Another way of saying it is that I become aware of the solution. Sometimes there is shocking clarity. Sometimes, the hole in my tent simply isn't big enough yet. I'm at peace with either.

In my past, I have done the equivalent of eye exercises when all I ever needed was to just look in the hole! Perhaps the "great" teachers have been looking longer than you or me. But they are still just observers of true reality. Now I can appreciate teachers like Eckhart who do their very best to show us the roadmap to the hole in the tent without seeing them as giant egos that the "little me" needs to attach to. My past spiritual life has been the equivalent of taking a map to a sacred treasure and analyzing the paper it is printed on, memorizing all the turns and directions, and buying more maps that follow different routs. Then framing the maps, telling people about the wonderul maps I have and how nice they are and what great quality they are. It never occurred to me before to actually use them to find the treasure.

Thanks for reading. Comments welcome.

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Post by Sighclone » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:32 am

In his cute little book "Enlightenment for Beginners", Chuck Hillig recalls Alan Watts' image of a finger pointing at itself, which it can only do if it points to a mirror. Adya does say that "only enlightenment gets Enlightened," which is that little bit of weight I gave it above. Part of what he means is that the moment of enlightenment is when the self disappears, so it can't get enlightened. And to add to the paradox, your enlightenment will be profoundly personal, and it will be the last thing that happens to you. "The end of your World" is the title of Adya's recent six-disc CD.

You said
Now I understand why so much of Buddhism is taught with word pictures. The word pictures are not the truth but it is how the brain translates what awareness is seeing.
The right brain (the site of holistic images) seems to be getting more activated as your left brain blasts away with all those thoughts...good stuff!

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4591
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Post by kiki » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:37 pm

Very nice post, premium. I really liked the circus analogy.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
---

premiumphoto
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:06 am

Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Post by premiumphoto » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:54 pm

It seems all I am doing these days is communicating in word pictures. I have been having lengthy emails with an aunt who is worried that I have become an atheist. I was assuring her that I am more spiritual now than ever and also much less religious. I compared it to wearing a tshirt and shorts. It's just fine when you are in the house. But when the hurricanes of life blow the roof off your world, you suddenly realize, standing in the freezing rain, that you need better clothes. Some people choose to freeze (like my dad), others seek better clothes. The people who are comfortable in the tshirt and shorts, that have not had the roof blown off, often don't understand the ones who look for better clothing. I've learned to not judge the hurricane but to be thankful for the realization that my clothes were inadequate.

And it's easier to point the finger than to lend a hand.

Peace,


Don

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Post by Sighclone » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:09 pm

Several months ago, the roof got blown off by a finger-pointer named Eckhart. It took lend-a-handers like kiki and WW and heidi to help me recognize that the new clothes were just fine.

Sure appreciate your being here, pmp...how is your friend?

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

HermitLoon
Posts: 686
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 7:57 pm
Location: Good Question

Re: anyone else experience an "echo" of thought?

Post by HermitLoon » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:34 pm

"The Pointers" are pointing at "The Pointers" - "themselves" - at The One.
Negation of thoughts is the way.
Peel the onion.
Last edited by HermitLoon on Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Peace

premiumphoto
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:06 am

my friend

Post by premiumphoto » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:56 pm

Thanks Andy. My friend is living day to day. I have not really had a chance to talk with her about "the hole in my tent" recently. She is going through so much that I think she is ripe for a breakthough. I am hoping so. I will still point her to BK. She isn't talking about ending things anymore. Hope that is a good sign.

Don

premiumphoto
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:06 am

update

Post by premiumphoto » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:40 pm

Life has been a bit of a wild ride lately and I have been meaning to update this thread for many days. First, as I mentioned before, I have discovered presence arising in my consciousness in the place of pain body when the pain body is normally triggered in me. Yet there have been situations where the "shell" of the pain body was there but no energy inside it. It was almost surreal in that it was almost like watching myself out of body- like an actor in a play. Just programming playing out like on a tape recorder with no emotions attached. I wondered if I had back tracked until I discovered something insightful to me. When, the pain body "tapes" were playing, I noticed that my normally well behaved little girl in the next room started to misbehave. She became angry not at what I was saying, but in a pain body trigger sort of way. Her pain body was triggered by mine even though I was conscious of not having any energy behind the words I was saying to my wife. It was like looking at a play happening. I hope I'm making sense here. The insight that my daughter's pain body was triggered by mine was, for me, a shocking revelation. I know that kids reflect back their home environment, but this was so revelatory in a different way. I was confronted with the choice of either being "right" or being at peace. This revelation has dissolved 75% of the conflict in my home (which was near divorce before the experience in my first post on this thread.)

Post Reply