Tiredness Affects Presence

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RCharles
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Tiredness Affects Presence

Post by RCharles » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:03 am

I find that tiredness affects presence. When I am very tired after a long day at work, especially if I didn't sleep well the night before, awareness of presence is more of a challenge. Sometimes I can still be present, and other times, I find myself slipping into unconscious irritability, complaining, etc. Sometimes I even know I'm slipping into unconsciousness, but I am too tired to care. Sound familiar to anybody?

RC
"They are all...perfect..." --Ken Watanabe, dying scene in the movie The Last Samurai

paridiso
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Re: Tiredness Affects Presence

Post by paridiso » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:03 am

Seems like I'm the opposite. During the day it's harder for me to be present, but in the evening my mind just shuts down and I just sort of naturally fall into presence.

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Re: Tiredness Affects Presence

Post by nodoubt » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:07 am

[ Sometimes I even know I'm slipping into unconsciousness, but I am too tired to care. Sound familiar to anybody?




Yes, sometimes I loose my temper- the negative energy rarely slips past my tongue these days and it's usually my pain body.
Find this most common after strenuous exercise- I seem to have a pain body reaction around clerks and bureaucrats,(peace to all clerks and bureaucrats 8)
These are the moments for breath counting and mantras. Almost like foot work in a tennis match or basket ball game,only the opponent is your self.
When practical I slip away and meditate on a candle or focus on spiritual reading.

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Ananda
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Re: Tiredness Affects Presence

Post by Ananda » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:02 pm

When the irritability or agitation arises don't try to combat it or be rid of it because that will strengthen it and the simplicity of the Self will seem infinitely far away. Instead relax and don't worry about it, let it play out as it does, and then you will become sober to it again.

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kiki
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Re: Tiredness Affects Presence

Post by kiki » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:56 pm

Even though I understand the spirit of your comment it is based on a false assumption, that there is a separate me. Why continue to hold this assumption if it can be investigated and found to be false? Find what is true and stay with that instead of reverting to old habits of thinking and believing. Then tiredness no longer becomes something to fight, fear, or resist. In reality, tiredness does not affect presence - presence always is.

Tiredness affects body and mind, and that can trigger old reactive patterns, but tiredness does not affect presence. If not for presence there would be no body or mind to feel "tired", and nothing that would note "tiredness". The error is a continued assumption that there exists a "me", a separate entity, that could "lose presence" - there isn't. See what's actually real and true always, the "me" or the presence in which a seeming me comes and goes. This is no small point - seeing this will help that identification with the assumed "me" to drop away, and then there will be the knowing that you are presence.

If the assumption of me isn't investigated and seen through then you will continue to fall victim to its view of how things should be. You will feel let down if you "fail" and you will rejoice when you perceive that you have somehow "got" presence. No mind made entity can "get" presence, let alone hang on to it. What tries to gain and then keep presence? Determine its reality and then see whether or not anything happens to presence.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: Tiredness Affects Presence

Post by Elise » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:48 am

I find the same thing. I notice my body is tired and I move towards getting rest. Or I push through it. Whichever is more appropriate for that moment.

I think my body is wisdom and intelligence too and I like surrendering to that intelligence I don't control.

tiredness, needing to use the bathroom, hunger, even sexual urges.. whenever they arise I just be with them and I am inspired to do what I need to do next. Sometimes it fades and I go back to what I am doing, sometimes I realise its my mind, sometimes I surrender to it and go grab something to eat or put down my work and go sleep

Great thread RC

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Re: Tiredness Affects Presence

Post by eagle2phoenix » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:41 am

Tiredness affects being which give rises to pain body, which then affects temperament and mood, makes one crabby, snappy. To make things worse, my kids' pain bodies are so attuned to mine that theirs arise, they get naughty and cause havoc with my well being. Then one mega explosion of anger silences the kids' naughtiness.
Life is fascinating. Nature is beautiful. Live life with nature.

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Re: Tiredness Affects Presence

Post by Mesquared » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:51 pm

Yeah, I know what you mean, RC, but I am trying to understand kiki's post, too.

I understand feeling tired- so far- as it affecting my body more than my spirit. My body feels limited in this way.

*Although,* I have caught myself feeling tired, mind buzzing, and I have a moment where I think, "I am buying into my thoughts about being tired, etc." And my vision actually gets clearer! It's like I came out of a fog when this happens. It's like I snapped out of it. The Power of Now..... :)

(Does that make sense?)

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kiki
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Re: Tiredness Affects Presence

Post by kiki » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:43 pm

Yeah, I know what you mean, RC, but I am trying to understand kiki's post, too.
RC's post is one that everyone can relate to, and especially to those who have taken steps to "wake up". My point in the discussion is to remind people that the one who struggles with anything, including "waking up", is not real to begin with - there simply is no "me" to wake up, and when that is seen then "struggle" disappears. What you already are, presence/now/consciousness, is already fully awake and here now always.

Tiredness comes and goes because it is a function of the body/mind - You, however, are not a function of mind or body. You are the awareness that is fully here now, and it never gets tired, it never gets affected by anything. So don't begin with an assumption that you must get presence because that assumption rests on the notion that you/ego are real to begin with. Start with awareness itself, what you are. That is the essential point that I want to hammer home - start with what is known to be true and cannot be denied, that awareness is present right here, right now.

There can be no denying that awareness is already here, otherwise these words would never register, and it never goes anywhere. The me, however, seems to come and go, therefore it can never be "You", the true you - how could "You" be here and then not here? It isn't possible. But awareness is constant, it is always just as it is and never goes anywhere - it is always present. Let there be the noticing of this fact of ever present awareness, let it be the anchor in all situations.

The me is only comprised of thought, but when searched for it will never be found. While searching for it notice what IS always present in the background, so to speak. It is the silent, still, knowingness of awareness/consciousness itself - that's what you are. Seeing/realizing this directly pulls the rug out from beneath ego and attachment/identification with it dissolves.

There seems to be a reverting back and forth from one to the other, but that's not really true because ego isn't even real. Even in the midst of ego identification awareness is still functioning flawlessly, unaffected by anything. But the noticing of awareness has taken a backseat to objects of awareness, but the awareness itself is still present - it never goes anywhere. What is thought to be the me is only an object of awareness.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: Tiredness Affects Presence

Post by karmarider » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:28 pm

This brings up the question whether it is easier to be mind or awareness.

It's much, much easier to be awareness--it is in fact effortless. However, the mind is a habit-machine and very fast one, so it engages quickly and automatically, and if may feel like it takes some effort to halt the habitual starts and grooves. When effort is released, it is much easier to be the passive, gentle, unoccupied watchfulness which watches all, including the habits of the mind and tiredness.

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Re: Tiredness Affects Presence

Post by James » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:51 pm

I can relate to what you are going through RC. Sometimes I find in the back of my mind there is a concealed belief that says something like, the tiredness or fatique should not be here, and that sets up a struggle. The same thing can happen with physical pain. The thought commentary or story about it, is what creates the problem, not the initial physical sensations.

The inquiry that Kiki very well explained, does pull the rug out from under the identification with form, experiences of form, and thought forms. For me it only takes a few seconds. Inquiring/asking what is it that notices tiredness, pain or whatever it is. And then watching without effort, (suspending trying to do anything), and the realization then flows. But that does not mean the body still won't be tired, "all forms are limited". The body may be saying that it needs to slow down, or needs more rest. Awareness responds appropriately and intelligently to the bodily needs, in ways the mind never could.

I have found I need to do the inquiry consistently as soon as a false identification begins to arise. But once my true nature is revealed again, as awareness, presence or whatever you want to call it. Then it is like being on auto pilot.

james
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

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Re: Tiredness Affects Presence

Post by Onceler » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:08 am

karmarider wrote:This brings up the question whether it is easier to be mind or awareness.

It's much, much easier to be awareness--it is in fact effortless. However, the mind is a habit-machine and very fast one, so it engages quickly and automatically, and if may feel like it takes some effort to halt the habitual starts and grooves. When effort is released, it is much easier to be the passive, gentle, unoccupied watchfulness which watches all, including the habits of the mind and tiredness.
I like this, Karmarider. I am finding awareness to be effortless more and more.

I also agree with James that there is a resistant thought form around tiredness, it is just sometimes hard to release the fatigue, perhaps we still feel that this takes energy, when in reality it doesn't....to find awareness. I find that mood is more of a barrier than tiredness.
Be present, be pleasant.

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Marcel Franke
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Re: Tiredness Affects Presence

Post by Marcel Franke » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:03 pm

RC:
> Sound familiar to anybody?

Sure, if you are talking about a methodology that leads you into meditation...
Every methodology can be disturbed.
But if that methodology works for you...
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Re: Tiredness Affects Presence

Post by OnthePath » Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:42 pm

I totally relate to this subject RC.

Kiki, what you're saying makes perfect sense to me; however, knowing that I'm not separate doesn't help when I'm tired. I still get affected by tiredness. What I usually do and it works most of the time. I just welcome all the sensations and the thoughts that go with tiredness. But I have to be alone to do it because when I am talking with people it's very hard to concentrate on my body at the same time.

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Re: Tiredness Affects Presence

Post by kiki » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:38 pm

What I usually do and it works most of the time. I just welcome all the sensations and the thoughts that go with tiredness.
Of course, that's the best thing to do as far as the level of form. What else is there to do than be open/welcoming to what is happening? "You", however, are nothing that appears in form.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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