Can people talk about realizing there is no "self"

Here you may share how the words Eckhart Tolle have affected your life.
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lakeswimr
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Can people talk about realizing there is no "self"

Post by lakeswimr » Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:33 am

I would like to hear about people's experiences realizing there is no self. I know some who have found this via Byron Katie-type inquiry and others via various other means of looking.

When I look internally my sense of "self" is the same as my sense of Being and other than that I don't feel any "self." However, I still often forget this and get caught in the belief of "me."

Would love to read about the rest of "you." :)

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mccpcorn
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Post by mccpcorn » Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:54 am

I find that, at the moment, the difference between Self and Being to be subtle but distinct. BTW by 'Self' I'm assuming you're talking about the mind made self.

Lately as you know I've felt a bit like an alcoholic whose had a relapse. I've been wallowing in miserable thoughts, feeling unable to shake them off. Yet a part of me knows the difference. I just 'choose' to feel sorry for myself.

Now as ET says, a belief may be comforting but only through experience does it become liberating. But setting aside the actual feelings I would say there is a definitive line between one and the other.

enlighterner
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Post by enlighterner » Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:06 pm

MCP how long have you been like this ?

If its longer than 2-3 months I would suggest getting some anti depressants. Why ? Because your thoughts create your reality. If you always look negative you cant get better.If you take something to help you will have a positive outlook and get what you want. Positive out look and energy will fix your suffering.

Then come off them and return to normal at a level where you are feeling good about your situation.

I would not suggest suffering for months or even years. The more you do it the more you become it.

Just a thought.

no self realization!

Have you really been no self ? If so how do you know ? Are you just experiencing something that you cant label ? is that the same for everyone ? Is that really no self ?
Last edited by enlighterner on Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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mccpcorn
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Post by mccpcorn » Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:53 pm

Interesting suppositions XD

Although I've probably suffered this condition on and off my entire life, I don't feel the need to resort to pills or any other form of artificial moral. :P Pills are just another means of identification - they become a physical manifestion of a 'mental' condition.

The difference between now and then is that then I thought it was me and now I recognise it isn't. If I 'accept' my pain it DOES go away. It's an odd sensation as everything just melts away into an indescribable form of peace. It is just that lately I've chosen not to accept. But that's fine to, because I recognise I'm playing the role of victim, as in A New Earth.

It is important IMO not to fight these feelings. The first step in acceptance is to recognise the feelings for what they are when they arise. Not label them, but KNOW them. It is only by learning to become aware of the negativity that you can then take the next step of accepting it and so transforming it back into life energy.

So I choose to revel in it and see what feelings it inspires in me; what thoughts it creates. I'm not analysing or thinking about the feelings; just knowing them. I watch the mind follow the thoughts through to the logical conclusion. I cannot shake the thoughts off and I cannot embrace them through acceptance, so I throw myself into the endurance. It is through this process that I find acceptance.

It is also through this process that I have identified my own personal boundary between Self and Being. But we all take different paths to the same destination.

enlighterner
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Post by enlighterner » Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:19 am

Yes I am with you, I did not realize that was your approach.

Why do you just 'choose' to feel sorry for youself ?.

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mccpcorn
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Post by mccpcorn » Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:45 pm

For me I suppose the quickest path to acceptance is through experience.

Some people are fortunate enough that they can transmute pain to peace the instant it arises. I'm not one of those people. I carry a strong mind identification and have a relatively powerful pain body when it is aroused. When things are going okay, I can feel the peace and stillness but when 'problems' arise in my life situation, and the pain body awakens I can't just turn it around.

I have to follow the path of the pain, like the current of a river. Through experiencing it I achieve awakening. As I experience I begin to observe. Through observation I'm able to gradually separate it out; to differentiate between Self and Being.

It's a slow process of disentanglement that leads to acceptance. It is a little like a minature version of the tremdendous trauma ET suffered that started him on this path. I let the mind follow it's thought progression through and when it says: "Okay, I can't deal with this conclusion anymore." I'm able to step in. I wont say the mind 'lets' me take control. Rather the mind surrenders once its finished running around in its little circles.

Defining a more efficient way of doing things will take time, as there's no-one I know in real life I can relate to on this subject. It's not perfect, but it serves for now.

lakeswimr
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Post by lakeswimr » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:13 am

The Byron Katie stuff might really help with this. It is different than what you currently do but ultimately is all about feeling those feelings and accepting what is. You might enjoy it.

I prefer to allow and observe the pain body but I have used The Work and it was helpful. Someone I know mainly uses The Work and it works well for her. :)

enlighterner
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Post by enlighterner » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:23 pm

This time while you suffer is your life now. every moment is important lets just hope you dont have to waste many more moments suffering.

I am not convinced

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Viv
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Post by Viv » Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:57 pm

enlighterner wrote: every moment is important lets just hope you dont have to waste many more moments suffering.
If EVERY moment is important (not just this one then, ;-)?) then how can any moment be wasted? Is suffering, wasting a moment?

V xx

JedEye
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Post by JedEye » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:04 pm

there are not two moments, just THIS one where you can experience, the one we`re in already.
no more words

weopposedeception
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Post by weopposedeception » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:59 am

I have a long history of suffering before finding some peace the last few years. First I thought that if I could just think the right way I would be free from suffering, I knew it was coming from the mind, self-induced. Then I chased my tail for awhile trying to analyze and change my thinking. My problem was a very strong identification with the mind. My ego thought that in order to survive I had to KNOW everything and CONTROL everything. I finally realized that all thought is a form of judgement, it's impossible to know the entire truth about anything. I started studying a lot of Advaita, going to satsangs, etc. I started to question whether the self really exists at all. The only thing I could say for sure about the "self" is that there is awareness of being present. This presence could never be defined by the mind. I had to surrender to the fact that who "I" am is basically a mystery, the mind can't know it. So who suffers? It could only be a mind-made version of myself. The awareness never suffers, only the mind has opinions. Presence continues no matter what. The best tool for getting out of the mind and connecting with presence is acceptance.

lakeswimr
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Post by lakeswimr » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:44 pm

Thank you Weopposedeceiption. I could relate to most of what you wrote and know what you meant in the rest of it. :)

That was a good reply. :)

enlighterner
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Post by enlighterner » Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:29 pm

Sorry Viv i did not realize you were enlightened.

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