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I find the concepts too "MINDY"

Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:56 am
by SirNikalot
I mean, all the reading material, it really can give me a headache and go in circles at times. Of course I CAN read through the loopy wordy description of the simplicity of presentness. Or I can just become more in tune with the body.

To me, at this point in my life, the concept of becoming aware of the body is a good way to get out of the painbody and to become more present, especially when pain starts noticeably affecting my life and those around me. Right now, I'd prefer not to overcomplicate this, even though things don't NEED to be overcomplicated, I find that overdoing it with the readings and studyings can really allow myself to overcomplicate life. Don't know if anyone is with me on this, but there it is, I'm sorry.

Re: I find the concepts too "MINDY"

Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:33 pm
by kiki
You are in a good place, totally ripe to drop all seeking and just be. "This" is not complicated; in fact, it is simplicity itself. Everything else is some form of complexity; all descriptions, all teachings, all striving to know, all grasping, all struggling - all of that are layers of complexity that cover up the simplicity of what you are, Presence/Consciousness.

So be willing to let go of everything, and have no fear that you won't "get it". That is not possible because you are it. At first this letting go is a kind of leap of faith because ego/mind thinks that if it isn't somehow working for it an opportunity is being missed to gain something. So trusting in this letting go can be hard at first, but once you do you'll come to realize that what you have been looking for is actually here now, and that no amount of striving or thinking about it is needed.

Re: I find the concepts too "MINDY"

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:10 pm
by Sighclone
How, exactly could Buddha have awakened? He didn't read Eckhart! And what he did read was pretty sketchy. And, frankly, what has remained, passed through the oral traditions of his writing is full of paradox. Awakening does not require reading anything. Awakening is not restricted to those who can read. How could it be? Words, thought and language are generally understood to be large barriers to enlightenment -- we grind away with them on this forum, building great passages of literacy -- but the goal is to transcend all meanings they convey. The ultimate house of cards is built of words, and the last one kicks out first one and they all fall down.

Andy

Re: I find the concepts too "MINDY"

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:48 pm
by Webwanderer
When it comes to awakening, reading and studying are most useful in gleaning insightful pointers through which to explore life. As one discovers an effective pointer, or combinations of pointers, that improves one's clarity of awareness, it seems (to me) point-less to continue searching for too many more while the insights in hand have such a nice sharp edge, and are capable of cutting through years of misperception if only applied with a little steadfast focus and patience. Even the best of pointers may eventually dull however, but one will sense when present pointers lose their edge, and be moved to seek out new ones.

Sitting with a revealing insight for awhile allows it to do its transformative work on consciousness. It may well be best to look to new realizations for days or weeks before continuing with further reading. In truth, compulsive reading may be just as likely to strengthen or rework thought structures as it is to free one from them.

Awakening is never about who reads the most books, or attends the most seminars. It's about perceiving with clarity the nature of being. Pointers, employed well, can help us through the complex structures of addictive thought, and back to a peaceful state of clear awareness.

WW

Re: I find the concepts too "MINDY"

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:37 am
by SirNikalot
Thank you guys.

There's just a lot of frustration here on my end, and frustration about the frustration. I guess you could say that I have a bad relationship with my ego, and my own ego is trying to fix it, its clear to me that it doesn't work that way. There's that other thing that the unhappy ego just doesn't get, all it knows is that it wants to be happy, but how do you get it? Maybe that's the very question that shows that there's nothing to be got, as its been intensely seeking to get that thing for quite some time now, maybe its time to be dropped, I don't know if I'm capable of doing that yet though, sigh.....the thought that it is here right now and always is just wayyyy to farfetched for this ego of mine right now.

Re: I find the concepts too "MINDY"

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:55 pm
by Sighclone
SirNik -

The concept that enlightenment is about happiness or bliss, and therefore to be sought for that reason, and the "bliss scale" being constantly monitored is counterproductive. Become awareness, and see if bliss follows, or if "bliss" is the right word. I've found that 'steady joy' seems to work better. Didn't happen overnight -- at least for me.

Happiness is another creature. A cool glass of water provides happiness for a couple of minutes. So does a sunrise. Moments of happiness occur to everyone. Go volunteer somewhere -- see if helping others improves your outlook.

Andy

Re: I find the concepts too "MINDY"

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:12 pm
by dubhasa
SirNikalot wrote:I mean, all the reading material, it really can give me a headache and go in circles at times. Of course I CAN read through the loopy wordy description of the simplicity of presentness. Or I can just become more in tune with the body.
Don't know if anyone is with me on this, but there it is, I'm sorry.
I am there with you SirNikalot. Not only reading material but even words I find it heavier. Thinking is a very heavy activity and consumes a lot of energy. I am finding that every single word and concept is heavy. I am learning to get away from active mind mode and be in the no-mind state. I find it very soothing, light, relaxing and open. Most of the concepts are very much contracted and heavy. I am finding them as a burden nowadays. I need to make an intentional effort to think. It is like picking up 20 lbs weight above the shoulder.

I invite you to drop the weight and relax in alert, no-mind state.

Re: I find the concepts too "MINDY"

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:48 am
by Sighclone
I am probably the worst offender of recommending reading on this forum. I throw book ideas at everyone. I apologize. Sort of. They worked for me and led me down a zillion paths which all pointed to the same nonmental thing. Before I had any clue about real awakening, I was a huge reader. I write for a living. Not much of that has changed -- at least the volume of reading and writing.

So afterwards the big difference is that I just look for bright stars...stars which shine for me. They might be dim or dull or heavy for anyone else. For that I apologize. But one form of yoga is jnani yoga or the path of understanding. It has been the right one for me. Mainly, I needed to understand what to do with all the "little me" baggage that made up my not terribly egoic life. And find a way to experience the simplicity and simple joy of Self in all of my now steadying life. Reading helped.

And if it is way too much for anyone else, I perfectly understand that. Hermit Loon is delightful, and re-appears from time to time here to remind us that all the mental stuff is so much dust in the wind. But that dust blowing around just refracts the radiance of Being for me -- or if it doesn't, I set it down. So should you if you feel like it.

After all, about 30% of the world is functionally illiterate, maybe more -- so they don't get to wake up????? So all this stuff requires a high level of literacy? Nonsense.

Andy

Re: I find the concepts too "MINDY"

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:08 pm
by mus3cho
I am new to this forum, so I am voraciously reading every last word my little mind can absorb. It just feels really good to be in a place where other people are contemplating the idea of "no-mind" or presence...
Thanks to all who have contributed. Really!

Re: I find the concepts too "MINDY"

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:01 pm
by kiki
Glad to have you here, mus3cho.