At last, I 'know'

Here you may share how the words Eckhart Tolle have affected your life.

Re: Answering Clare's Post

Postby Clare » Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:18 am

Guest wrote:Claire said

Hi Clare ,

I pop into here sometime and was reading your post. Seems like you're really evolving wow, great to see. Just ten minutes ago I was in a really heated phone argument with my sister - my intention has been to try to tell her how well I thought I organized a potential sad crisis we have with a relative in Europe. I experience my sis as a very controlling person, it has to go her way on no way so she started to negate that which I felt I organized well. I started to disagree (since in the past she took over one such incident completely). She got so put off with me she said that's it, fini, nothing to discuss. She got off the phone. I started to get really upset, then just stepped back to let it be. I'm so aware of where I used to flood my emotional energy, and leak energy. I'm watching myself and just stepping back. Letting it be. I do feel relieved.. for now anyway and a peace.

Thanks for sharing. All the best to you. I also hope I'm shifting. This is my first post here so I hope it ends in the thread you started.

AYAM hehe you know who :wink:


Nice to hear from you, AYAM
Yeah, I know who you are :wink:

I don't think we can avoid evolving, so I don't see it as a major achievement or anything :) But thanks

I'm glad that you were able to step back from the power play with your sister. I find in my own experience that once I can observe the pattern of family members' instead of reacting to it, it ceases to hurt and brings on an amused affectionate feeling, like watching a child do something predicatable to get attention, and smiling and shaking my head; then it's easier to give them whatever they need, without having a need for them to do or say something in return. No investment.

Ahhh, and sisters...sisters can be the worst! They are like pumices that we can either sharpen or soften oursleves on IMHO: they grate on you, but it's always useful :)

Love, Clare
User avatar
Clare
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:20 pm
Location: Limousin, France

Postby barbarasher » Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:58 pm

Kiki

Thank you very much.

I am going to try to live it for a while, and then I will write back.
User avatar
barbarasher
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:38 am

Postby Guest » Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:29 pm

Hello Clare :D

Nice to meet up with you again in cyberspace and read/see you :wink: . Hope you've been well. Our mutual friend has kept me up todate a little about you, not because she gossips, but because I am interested and I ask.

So, thanks for your wise words:


Clare said:
I'm glad that you were able to step back from the power play with your sister. I find in my own experience that once I can observe the pattern of family members' instead of reacting to it, it ceases to hurt and brings on an amused affectionate feeling, like watching a child do something predicatable to get attention, and smiling and shaking my head; then it's easier to give them whatever they need, without having a need for them to do or say something in return. No investment. (end quote)


Beautiful analogy. Yes indeed sometimes it can become very simple. In our case the family crisis did occur, our relative passed away in Europe and as his only living relatives - accross the ocean -, we have much to attend to. So I'm saying it's been an intese time. :idea: What has shifted for me however has been significant. In moving to the place of being able to observe my sister, I had a chance to, GASP observe myself!! And indeed I could SEE and UNDERSTAND her concerns regarding dealing with me. Well well, this has been a gift for sure and I'm now able to monitor myself and you know how they say, when you change the whole world changes around you. :D

Indeed, thanks much and I'm sure I'll see you around somewhere.

all the bast,
AYAM hehe
Guest
 

Postby barbarasher » Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:48 pm

Hi Kiki,

Thank you for your input in previous posts. I have been digesting/living it for a few days (while still living a very full and busy life).

I again read your answers, and because a few days of digesting it have gone by, I can hear it more deeply.

You said:
Ego will do all sorts of things in the name of finding and completing its perceived mission: fulfillment through relationships, good works, occupation, seeking power of over others, acquisition of wealth, and other sorts of things 'of the world'. When these things fail to bring happiness then it is common for the ego to seek out something within the spiritual realm, and it will chase after various esoteric practices: meditation, chanting, raising the kundalini, astral projection, pranayama, hatha yoga - you name it and ego will think the answer lies there.

All of these practices (and all other practices) are believed by the ego to hold the answer, to be the key in finding happiness, reaching enlightenment, or at least in fulfilling some sort of mission. Years and years (and in some cases decades and lifetimes) are spent in their pursuit in the hopes that some day enlightenment will be gained, happiness will be found, or a life mission completed. The fallacy in all of this….



Yes. I see that.


The following is written as a statement, but is really a question.

So all I am is awareness. And I should enjoy the moments of this awareness and appreciate the wonder and beauty of being alive and the world.

LOL: I must be feeling really good to be able to say the sentence above.

So no ego, no thoughts, no mission, no striving to change my surroundings or others around me or even me. To just "be", to just "revel" in it.


You also said:
The irony is that literally nothing 'needs' to be done because happiness/peace/contentment/fulfillment are yours by nature; it's just that they are obscured by ego identification….For most people the disidentification is gradual….Once ego identification is broken the egoic structure begins to crumble and the natural state becomes consciously experienced for greater and greater lengths of 'time'.


Yes I am re-reading Stillness Speaks. Thank you for the suggestion.
So the more I dis-identify with the ego, the more my true happy self will be revealed?

Thank you for your attention.
User avatar
barbarasher
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:38 am

Postby Guest » Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:54 am

Hi barbarasher,

Please bear with me while I throw a lot of words/pointers your way (as is my tendency to do).

One must be careful not to take words that are written or spoken by me or anyone else as being true, even if they feel true - that would turn 'pointers' into another concept which is simply absorbed into one's identity structure; they would just be more beliefs that the ego carries. For awakening to happen what one does is to see what words, ideas, and beliefs arise in, and what they arise in is awareness - You.

Awareness is so ordinary and so simple that it seldom gets noticed, but without awareness nothing could exist. What is usually noticed is what changes. The mind is drawn to change because it doesn't quite believe that all the answers are right here right now. But answers can't be here, reasons the mind, so it looks to the future to when things will change from what they are right now. So ego/mind seeks, and by so doing it creates time. It fantasizes about the future and projects into it what has been learned from the past - this creates anticipation, expectation, and fear as the underlying themes for whatever storyline the mind has created. Or the ego dwells upon the past with its storylines of regret, wistfulness, opportunity missed, or whatever. In both cases the present moment has been missed, which is unfortunate because the present moment, now, is all there is. Mind, however, is always looking for more, and looking for more implies that what's here now isn't enough.

Instead of looking for more, simply notice what's already here. As you notice what's here also notice when the ego/mind comes into play to comment/label/judge what's here; those tendencies take you out of conscious awareness of the present moment because those things are of the past. When you 'catch' yourself in the midst of commenting, labelling, and judging you have automatically returned to the present moment. The more often you catch yourself being out of presence the more stable presence becomes. This has the effect of revealing more clearly just what awareness is.

Now, please allow me to make a suggestion which may be helpful in revealing the simplicity of awareness. In my last post I suggested listening to Stillness Speaks while sitting quietly. There were several reasons I did that: Stillnesss Speaks doesn't have a lot of words, a lot of explanations in it. There isn't a lot for the mind to absorb all at once because it is broken down into small pieces. It has frequent pauses built into it to allow the mind to think about what has been said, and more importantly, to rest in awareness itself. At first, the mind will it will think about what it hears. With repeated listening the concepts will be understood more clearly and when that happens the mind won't have much to 'do' anymore. At some point while listening you will notice that all there is is listening (especially noticeable during the gaps Tolle inserts between his spoken ideas), and no longer any internal grappling with the concepts. In other words, the ego/mind has dropped out leaving nothing but awareness in which listening is happening. There are words/sounds but no 'me' who is attaching anything to those words/sounds.

Once you recognize just what awareness is you will notice it literally everywhere (it MUST be everywhere!). With whatever is seen there is an awareness illuminating it - the usual case, though, is that there is an internal comment/judgment/label attached to what has been seen (coming from the past), and it is this which obscures awareness. So when you catch yourself doing those things (and it's not a separate you/ego who does this but awareness itself) there will be a simple and effortless return to 'seeing' itself. This is the return to presence, to now, to awareness, to 'what is.'

The same holds true for everything else: touching, tasting, smelling. These are always happening anyway, but again, they tend to have an overlay of mental comment along with them that comes from ego/mind. Over the course of 'time' this recognition of 'what is' by You/awareness deepens and becomes more stable.

(By the way, just notice that as you are reading these words there are other things that are illuminated by awareness but aren't being attended to by ego/mind: the hum of the computer, the sounds of the tv/radio in the background, objects on the periphery of your vision, the smell of dinner cooking, the taste of the gum you are chewing, the sense of the fingers upon the keyboard. If not for awareness none of that could be known. Pure awareness/You makes all of these things possible. And as attention is put upon these words notice that with all else that is occuring there is no commentary of ego/mind attached to them - they are simply here now).

Then the realization hits you: that the you that you believed was you doesn't really exist; it never did and it never will. That you/ego is now directly and clearly seen to be nothing but ideas which were held in the mind. When those ideas are witnessed as they arise it is realized that they are not real (in the sense that they come and go). That what IS real is the awareness that is illuminating those ideas of self and other. If there is no 'little me', as Tolle puts it, there can be no 'other.'

You said,

So no ego, no thoughts, no mission, no striving to change my surroundings or others around me or even me. To just "be", to just "revel" in it.


Ego and thought are not real, they are temporary appearances arising in awareness. The only one who would attempt to change oneself or their surroundings is ego. There is no mission, because that is something the ficticious ego has created as well.

You will notice that when you are in presence (as presence) none of those things exist, but what will be here is awareness. When there is the simple resting within this natural state of awareness there is simply 'beingness.' There is no reveling in it - there is just awareness. That awareness is You.

When this is seen as being true, then the 'apparent me' goes about its life as before, but with the knowing that this 'apparent me' is not real. Everything is then seen as a play, an arising within awareness.

Wow - what a lot of words! Now, forget everything I wrote and rest in beingness :)

kiki
Guest
 

Postby barbarasher » Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:43 am

Thank you very much.

So I am going to "be" for a few days, and then post a reply.

Being Barbara
User avatar
barbarasher
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:38 am

Postby summer » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:57 am

dear kiki,
thank you for another great post :)
As I read your words, it is as if I go on a journey. And when I finish I am not the same person I was when I started reading.

Kind of like meditating or sitting quietly with my eyes closed.

I especially liked what you said about being in awareness

quote "You will notice that when you are in presence (as presence) none of those things exist, but what will be here is awareness. When there is the simple resting within this natural state of awareness there is simply 'beingness.' There is no reveling in it - there is just awareness. That awareness is You.

When this is seen as being true, then the 'apparent me' goes about its life as before, but with the knowing that this 'apparent me' is not real. Everything is then seen as a play, an arising within awareness."

No big fireworks....no raising people from the dead..... or miraculous powers......

Just awareness

:)
User avatar
summer
 
Posts: 466
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:42 am
Location: California

Postby barbarasher » Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:38 am

You said
Mind, however, is always looking for more, and looking for more implies that what's here now isn't enough.


Yeah, that's me. BIG TIME! More, more, more. More people working for me, more money, more love, more work, more spiritual enlightenment. More, more, more… And the future to bring it to me… And big efforts not to think of the past with its storylines of regret, sorrow and so on… Or to imagine storylines for the future with expectation and fear.


I have found that in the last two weeks that there is more calmness inside me that has reduced negative interactions and made nicer my relationship with my mother, husband and older daughter. They are who they are. I know them to react to certain things in certain ways. That is reality. They love me and I love them and that "is". I did not get so upset about their various behaviors and didn't react in ways that cause me pain and trigger them to more of the same.


Page 52 of Stillness Speaks says "You find peace, not by rearranging the circumstances of your life, but by realizing who you are at the deepest level".


Katie Byron says that the premise of "My life must have a purpose", is in itself stressful and is in opposition to reality. If you noticed, my signature is "A life of Purpose if the Purpose of Life". But as she said, even though I have achieved many things, a successful business, a close family, success in competitive tennis, I was still very actively, breathlessly looking for my purpose. But I wasn't attaching to any one cause. And I didn't/don't know whether the cause should be myself or others or my business, or my family or what? I haven't and couldn't work it out.


Maybe I should just relax and be more aware, more conscious and more a friend with reality.

I am have removed my signature. No new one yet.

Thank you for your attention.


Sincerely

PS. I just noticed that you couldn't see my old signature. Well I changed it now in my profile.
User avatar
barbarasher
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:38 am

Postby kiki » Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:33 pm

barbarasher wrote:Katie Byron says that the premise of "My life must have a purpose", is in itself stressful and is in opposition to reality"

I agree with Katie's statement. This was the driving force in my own life, and it was the source of constant frustration and stress - it gnawed at me and kept me awake many nights. The attainment of enlightenment was thought to hold the answer, but its pursuit only postponed the realization of what is actually here now.

It wasn't until EVERYTHING was let go of that I found what I was looking for. And the great joke is that it was here all along.

Yes, just relax...just relax into what you already are...just relax into the natural state of awareness that is You, that natural state that is always here, that precedes any and all ideas of what you may think yourself to be. Then reality shines of its own accord and is simply witnessed by You/awareness. It is all so very simple.

My best to you,
kiki
User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4370
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Postby barbarasher » Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:09 pm

Thank you.

Sounds good.

I will be in touch.
User avatar
barbarasher
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:38 am

Postby barbarasher » Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:49 am

Kiki you said

The ego thinks that by accumulating more knowledge, power, possessions, special abilities, performing good works, and so forth that happiness will be the result. … it (ego) will hear about enlightenment and so it will pursue it eagerly - enlightenment becomes a goal, a mission to be fulfilled, and all sorts of practices will ensue - meditation seems to be chief among them. But this is a trap because the very performance of any sort of practice or technique will keep ego engaged. In other words, ego is trying to get rid of itself (for that is what enlightenment is, egoless awareness), which is impossible! A 'spiritualized ego' is the greatest barrier to enlightenment.



I was driving along listening to Byron Katie and she said the following, with which I identified strongly and which really hit home for me on the subject we have been discussing.

She said, "Enlightenment is just a spiritual concept, just one more thing to seek in a future that never comes". This sentence hit home.

She continued to say, "Even the highest truth is just one more concept. For me experience is everything and that's what inquiry reveals. Everything painful is undone – now, now, now. … Just enlighten yourself to this moment. Can you just do that? And then eventually the mind merges with the heart and comes to see that it's not separate. It finds a home it rests in itself, as itself. Until the story I met with understanding, there is no peace."

I feel relieved on one hand, because I can relax a bit more and not have one more goal to run after and look for the "more, more, more".

On the other hand, I feel disappointed (as you pointed out I might) since I had set this up as the GOAL to attain in order to get all the answers.

Sincerely,

Barbara
User avatar
barbarasher
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:38 am

Postby kiki » Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:46 pm

barbarasher wrote:I feel relieved on one hand, because I can relax a bit more and not have one more goal to run after and look for the "more, more, more.


Yes, when it is deeply seen that there is no goal that needs to be chased after and attained, there can be a deep relaxation with everything and a simple resting within oneself, within awareness itself.

On the other hand, I feel disappointed (as you pointed out I might) since I had set this up as the GOAL to attain in order to get all the answers.


This disappointment arises from the egoic conditioning that has always pointed you to something 'out there' to chase after. This chasing keeps the ego 'employed' in what it thinks is useful work. That is the deception that is being played out.

What ego is most afraid of is its demise - what will happen to it if it's not in charge anymore? It fears it will die and so it will create any strategy it can come up with to keep itself in place. That's understandable, everything wants to live. The joke, of course, is that the ego isn't real in the first place - it is temporary, it comes and goes. The real you is awareness itself, and THAT is life itself, and it is within you that all expressions of life arise - one of those expressions is ego.

Even with awakening the ego will still be there, but it will no longer be believed in, it will be seen for what it is - a tool. As awareness is rested in more and more, the ego has less and less to do. It will fade into the background for the most part and even disappear for longer and longer periods of time, but it will arise again for practical necessities. The realization will come that ego isn't an enemy, but in fact serves a useful function. But when it's no longer required there is a spontaneous dropping away of the ego mechanism.

I assure you, that with the resting within awareness there will be no disappointment. Rather, there will be a deep stillness and peace, a contentment that all is well, and a sense of fulfillment. None of these things needs to be chased after because they are yours already. That's why it is sometimes said that what is being looked for is what's doing the looking.
You are what you are looking for! What is doing any looking? awareness. But it's ego which takes credit for the looking and so the 'seeing of awareness' gets overlooked. The ego has placed itself between you/pure awareness and everything else and directs attention outward.

When ego is created 'other' is automatically created. This is when duality arises. When there is the resting within the natural state of awareness there is no duality - what is seen from there is simply 'what is' without the overlay of egoic interpretation. You have arrived home at last, and in discovering that, there comes the realization that you never left home, but were only fooled into believing that you had.

You are on a journey of discovery - a journey that is in fact illusory. When you sleep at night you may go many places, but when you wake up in the morning you discover that you haven't gone anywhere. The journey to 'enlightenment' is the same thing. Enjoy the sights along the way. When you are left with no concepts of anything, with nothing to hang on to, the 'journey' is completed.

My best to you,
kiki
User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4370
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Postby barbarasher » Sun Feb 20, 2005 6:18 am

Kiki,

Thank you as always.

What is the useful function that ego serves?
User avatar
barbarasher
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:38 am

Postby a_friend » Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:34 am

this is an excellent question! I'm not sure, as i haven't been there myself (or maybe you would say i have and just don't know it), but tolle has what i think is a great summary for this. He says something along the lines of "we have progressed from the perfect unconscious to the imperfect conscious to the perfect conscious" or something. I like to think that the ego is this necessary window in the evolution of consciousness through which we must pass. In otherwords, there ain't no other way to get from point a to point b than to go through point e (ego). so since its necessary and everything, there's no need to get all disgruntled about it, just be glad to be on your way :) ya know what i mean?

a friend
ps obviously a little toasty at this point
a_friend
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:33 am

Postby heidi » Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:47 pm

Well put, friend. It's the process. We are the process, and to be aware of the elements contained within - to be conscious - is process, too.
I like thinking of us as verbs rather than nouns, and then all this stuff that may cause worry such as egos and such, can be seen more clearly - ha ha - as the illusions they are :)
Heidi
http://www.heidimayo.com
wonderment on the third wave
User avatar
heidi
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 2703
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:37 am
Location: 42nd parallel, Massachusetts, USA

PreviousNext

Return to Personal Experiences

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest