I feel ripped-off, and I'm mad at Eckhar Tolle

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I feel ripped-off, and I'm mad at Eckhar Tolle

Postby Lowrey » Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:44 pm

Long story short.

I have a traumatic, unstable childhood. FF 20 years. I read "Power of Now", I've found it amazing, started to use some of his teachings to achieve my goals in life (it was never "enlightenment"). For a year, I've felt very good, focused, and started to actually realize my dreams. FF 1 year. I had a panic attack, and my life changed in that moment.

I was coming back from the hospital (they told me I'm 100% healthy, it was probably a panic attack), and I've felt a different person. In a wrong way. Actually, I was feeling like a "nobody". It felt like amnesia. I felt like not remembering who I am. Not literally, but "emotionally". I couldn't find myself. I started to "automatically" look at my life from a negative perspective. I wasn't feeling passion about anything I used to, I started to think about death constantly, and how life is short and meaningless.

Every little thing freaked me out into a panic attack.

The feeling is something like Tolle described, but the peace and bliss he talks about wasn't there, only extreme fear, anxiety, panic and fear of death.

It was a year ago, I'm a lot better now, I can sleep, function, do a lot of things. But if I think about I may did it to myself under the influence of Tolle, I really want to knock his face.

What's the experts take on this?
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Re: I feel ripped-off, and I'm mad at Eckhar Tolle

Postby hanss » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:55 pm

Check this thread and see if you can get something out of it:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9172&p=73872&hilit=fear&sid=d9bad98f66048d24bb4b1d5047be841b#p73872
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
(Eckhart Tolle)
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Re: I feel ripped-off, and I'm mad at Eckhar Tolle

Postby ashley72 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:39 pm

Lowrey,

Have you ever heard of the anxiety trick?



The Ego
The Mind objectifies things. This is how it understands and conceives reality. In early childhood (~ 8 months of age) the infants Mind constructs its most principle mental object (the Ego).  The Ego is fundamentally a human beings cumulative mental vision of oneself. This mental view is constructed by the Mind. The Ego is accumulative phenomenon or activity. The Ego is not permanent or constant centre, but needs to be constantly feed for its existence.  
 
The Anxiety Trick is this: The EGO experiences Discomfort, because the Mind gets fooled into treating it like danger.
What does the Ego do when it’s in danger? The Ego only has three options: Fight, Flight, or Freeze. If it looks weaker than the Ego, the Ego will fight it. If it looks stronger than the Ego, but slower, the Ego will run away. And if it looks stronger and faster than the Ego, the Ego will freeze and hope it doesn't notice the Ego’s weakness. That's all the Ego can use against danger.
When the Ego experiences the fear of a panic attack, or a phobic encounter, or an obsessive thought, the Ego instinctively treats it as a danger. The Ego tries to protect itself, with some variation of Fight, Flight, or Freeze.
An Ego with Social Phobia gets tricked into avoiding the party, or hiding in the corner if it attends, rather than say hello to a stranger and see what happens.
An Ego with Generalized Anxiety Disorder gets tricked into trying to stop the unwanted "what if?" thoughts, rather than accepting them and taking care of present business as thoughts come and go.
An Ego with OCD gets tricked into repeatedly washing his hands, or returning home to check the stove, rather than accepting the intrusive thoughts of contamination and fire and returning his energies to the present activities at hand.
An Ego with Panic Disorder gets tricked into holding its breath and fleeing the store (highway, cinema, or other locale), rather than shifting to Belly Breathing and staying there until the feelings pass.
 
 
What Maintains the Anxiety Trick?
You might wonder, why does the Ego/Mind not come to see this pattern, of repeated episodes of fear which don't lead to the feared outcome, and gradually lose the fear?
The answer is this. The Mind is unconsciously identified with its mental image (the Ego). If the Mind is left to its own devices it can’t see through the illusion because the mind objectified the illusion in the first place. It took these protective steps, and there was no catastrophe. The Ego tends to believe that these steps "saved" it from a catastrophe. This thought makes the Ego worry more about "the next time". It convinces itself that it is terribly vulnerable and must constantly protect itself.
Work this exercise:
 
Next, witness your body.
Feel the way your anxiety sits in your body.
Feel the shape of it.
Witness the way your mind, body and thoughts are reacting to the sensation of anxiety.
Allow your thoughts to come and go as they please – whatever they may be. Simply observe. Don’t response to them.
Staying conscious whilst anxious is necessary to see through the illusion, so be diligent in maintaining your awareness by becoming deeply rooted within your body.
Allowing the anxiety to be as it is, witness the watcher.
Shift your consciousness so that more of it is witnessing the watcher than the anxiety. Simply allow the anxiety to be as it is.
Observe.
Notice how the watcher simply allows your thoughts to be. It requires nothing. Whether fast, slow, critical or neutral the watcher simply watches.
Now imagine a feeling of capability and strength existing. Use the power of the watcher to notice how this deeply capable consciousness feels.
Move your consciousness into this feeling of capability. Allow the watcher to be. Allow anxiety to be. Listen to the feeling of genuine capability.
Watch how this inner strength is able to exist simultaneously with any thoughts and sensations of anxiety.
Watch the effortless consciousness that is able to move, breathe, and be empowered regardless of feelings of anxiety, ridicule or doubt. It is there you simply need to find it.
Look, listen, imagine and feel. Stretch your mind. Expand your consciousness. Give yourself permission to explore.
The opportunity to transcend anxiety only exists when we allow anxiety to exist as it is. As soon as we suppress it we deny ourselves the opportunity to move through it. Remember that transcendence means to see through the illusion. The illusion being that anxiety has us trapped. When we experience that empowerment and deep capability can exist simultaneously with anxiety then we break the illusion. In this moment anxiety has changed – because the mind has changed. It’s like learning to climb a wall. The wall is the same, but it no longer blocks our journey because we have learnt to get past it.
The principle behind this exercise is the same as the principle behind any emotional healing technique. We must guide the mind to transcend the belief that we are disempowered in the presence of any thought, feeling or emotion. Working through the various blueprints of various emotions allows us to understand the principles. There are of course other methods of working through anxiety, or any emotional mind state for that matter. Breathing, chakras and energetic methods all work some accelerate the process more or less than others. In my opinion the essential thing is to teach the Mind to transcend energy states. This is what allows us to go beyond technique and instead of being reliant on certain criteria we understand how to be free and empowered in any situation.
Be conscious that developing the ability to connect to empowerment will get to the point where anxiety feels like nothing. It’s tempting at this point to let go of any anxiety residue, and simply connect to empowerment – but as patterns tend to work in cycles, a time may come in the future when anxiety returns. This is simply because the mind has not yet transcended the fear of anxiety fully. This fear keeps the mind attached to the belief that we cannot free ourselves from it. Getting to the root of fear requires that we remain vigilant. We must remain conscious always. To prevent this from feeling like a prudish chore, develop consciousness with the essence of effortlessness capability and freedom. After all these are the essentials of self-mastery.
 
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Re: I feel ripped-off, and I'm mad at Eckhar Tolle

Postby Lowrey » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:23 pm

hanss wrote:Check this thread and see if you can get something out of it:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9172&p=73872&hilit=fear&sid=d9bad98f66048d24bb4b1d5047be841b#p73872



thank you, I've read it.

one thing I want to add, I was never, and still not interested in what Tolle describes as "losing the sense of self" and "personality", and "concepts". I'm fine in this world and I don't care about "enlightenment".

I have to admit I'm confused about Tolle. My presence may have brought deep fears onto the surface.
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Re: I feel ripped-off, and I'm mad at Eckhar Tolle

Postby Lowrey » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:31 pm

I have no plan on "realizing the illusion of me and the world" and any other bs Tolle describes. Thanks for the replies I will read them carefully.
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Re: I feel ripped-off, and I'm mad at Eckhar Tolle

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:26 am

Interesting how the content of your experience in the first paragraph of the OP goes I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I

and comes down to = Tolle's fault (I'm mad at Eckhart Tolle)

Wonder what that's about?
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: I feel ripped-off, and I'm mad at Eckhar Tolle

Postby karmarider » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:52 am

I had anxiety for decades. Releasing works--the Sedona Method (book) is good, and I have a simpler direct technique on my website.
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Re: I feel ripped-off, and I'm mad at Eckhar Tolle

Postby far_eastofwest » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:07 pm

Glad you are feeling better now, i'm not an expert on anything however i will say what i think
Anything can have an adverse effect on a person no matter how 'good' others describe it. Think of food allergies.

You do mention the traumatic childhood, anything, be it a book or a 'cure' to have a person feel better about themselves tends to be short lived if it doesn't address the underlying issues. Bit like having a leaking shower rotting the floor boards, you can put a bit of floor covering on but after awhile the boards under will still rot through and have you come to the earth very quickly when your feet go through.
Sometimes 'here and now' therapies are good, but they are best married to a follow up of dealing with past stuff.
Maybe the 'good' feeling you got after reading the book was helpful at the time but the underlying stuff rather than gone away was simply covered over and was brewing up for one big pop.

You may want to think about going over your childhood experiences with a trained counseller. Unfinished business (childhood stuff for example) needs to be finished before moving on.

Self help books can be useful, but like diy home renovations books, a real live person to get help with this stuff sometimes the best option.
good luck with your future!
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Especially when there is no cat....
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Re: I feel ripped-off, and I'm mad at Eckhar Tolle

Postby Emmy » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:04 pm

Thank you very much, ashley72. It's a reminder to me to not give up on being aware of my thoughts and emotions. I felt like giving up this morning after another episode of horrible fear and anxiety that happened yesterday with no external cause. It just happened. After all, if not practicing being aware, what else can I do, right? The suffering happened on its own. Who or what am I to blame? Thank you for your message and please continue coming here to help others. God bless everyone.
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Re: I feel ripped-off, and I'm mad at Eckhar Tolle

Postby RCharles » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:27 am

Lowrey, this is just a guess and could be totally off the mark, but it sounds as though the year you were practicing Tolle you may have actually been suppressing your feelings rather than watching them. The mind/ego may have tricked you so that instead of giving up control and letting thoughts and feelings be as they are and watching them, your mind was actually stuffing them down, controlling them, pretending they didn't exist and making you feel that you were very enlightened indeed because you had such powerful control over your mind.

What makes me say this? The vehemence with which all the thoughts and emotions suddenly came rushing back during and after your panic attack. When we stuff our emotions, they eventually explode with greater power. Karmarider gave you a wonderful suggestion about looking into the Sedona Method and also a variation of it on his website. These would be helpful to you if your emotions have been stuffed and now need to come out so you can see them and let them go.

Also, keep talking to people here about your understanding of Tolle. You may need to refine your approach to learn better how to live in the present without stuffing the feelings that your body/mind brings up.

Hope that helps and is not off the mark.

Chuck
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Re: I feel ripped-off, and I'm mad at Eckhar Tolle

Postby ashley72 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:39 am

Karmarider website has some great resources. I would definitely recommend taking a look, i found his writing style very clear to read.

Emmy, I've suffered from my fair share of anxiety & panic in the past... Just keep educating yourself about the condition. It is an illusion and sometimes you need to suffer a bit more before it finally drags you back to confront each fear once and for all. If you leave it untreated and keep using avoidance strategies it will only limit more of your life. Avoidance is the minds way of maintaining the anxienty trick. Good luck.
Last edited by ashley72 on Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I feel ripped-off, and I'm mad at Eckhar Tolle

Postby Midnight » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:58 am

Lowrey wrote:Long story short.

I have a traumatic, unstable childhood. FF 20 years. I read "Power of Now", I've found it amazing, started to use some of his teachings to achieve my goals in life (it was never "enlightenment"). For a year, I've felt very good, focused, and started to actually realize my dreams. FF 1 year. I had a panic attack, and my life changed in that moment.

I was coming back from the hospital (they told me I'm 100% healthy, it was probably a panic attack), and I've felt a different person. In a wrong way. Actually, I was feeling like a "nobody". It felt like amnesia. I felt like not remembering who I am. Not literally, but "emotionally". I couldn't find myself. I started to "automatically" look at my life from a negative perspective. I wasn't feeling passion about anything I used to, I started to think about death constantly, and how life is short and meaningless.

Every little thing freaked me out into a panic attack.

The feeling is something like Tolle described, but the peace and bliss he talks about wasn't there, only extreme fear, anxiety, panic and fear of death.

It was a year ago, I'm a lot better now, I can sleep, function, do a lot of things. But if I think about I may did it to myself under the influence of Tolle, I really want to knock his face.

What's the experts take on this?


So you are aware of this feeling - feeling like a different person?
Your also aware of how your not feeling the same passions etc.

My first question to you is - who is the one who all of these percieved 'issues' are actually impacting?

Stay with this question, don't think about it, just sit with it and ponder, look inwardly and see if you can find if this 'person' exists. Don't let the mind swap out this question for an easier one, because the mind gets nervous when it can sense a potent question that could potentially reveal it as illusion. This is real inquiry, I don't know whether you are familiar with it or not.

The second question (once you've seen the answer to the first) is - who is making this discovery? If you have really looked, you'l find that there isn't actually a 'person' as such who these issues are touching; there's actually noone home. There may be THOUGHTS about a certain person, but these come and go, always shifting and changing.

So - who has discovered that this person isn't real? What is it that has seen that there's noone tangible who is having these problems. Is it the person? Can that be possible? What is the nature of the one who's 'seeing' that the person is only a thought?

Inquire. Stick with it though, nothing else will do.
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Re: I feel ripped-off, and I'm mad at Eckhar Tolle

Postby Lowrey » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:23 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:Interesting how the content of your experience in the first paragraph of the OP goes I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I

and comes down to = Tolle's fault (I'm mad at Eckhart Tolle)

Wonder what that's about?


of course I'm not blaming an author for having problems, that'd be stupid. I just couldn't describe my situation better. Look at it like this : I read Tolle, who talks about "emptiness" and "losing self", and 1,5 year later you get panic and anxiety, which is terrible and actually feels like that.

I'm not blaming him, I just want to know about your opinion about it.

I don't think Tolle "caused" my problems, I just really want to know what you guys think.
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Re: I feel ripped-off, and I'm mad at Eckhar Tolle

Postby Lowrey » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:25 pm

far_eastofwest wrote:Glad you are feeling better now, i'm not an expert on anything however i will say what i think
Anything can have an adverse effect on a person no matter how 'good' others describe it. Think of food allergies.

You do mention the traumatic childhood, anything, be it a book or a 'cure' to have a person feel better about themselves tends to be short lived if it doesn't address the underlying issues. Bit like having a leaking shower rotting the floor boards, you can put a bit of floor covering on but after awhile the boards under will still rot through and have you come to the earth very quickly when your feet go through.
Sometimes 'here and now' therapies are good, but they are best married to a follow up of dealing with past stuff.
Maybe the 'good' feeling you got after reading the book was helpful at the time but the underlying stuff rather than gone away was simply covered over and was brewing up for one big pop.

You may want to think about going over your childhood experiences with a trained counseller. Unfinished business (childhood stuff for example) needs to be finished before moving on.

Self help books can be useful, but like diy home renovations books, a real live person to get help with this stuff sometimes the best option.
good luck with your future!


thank you for your time. I can't really comment on this because we agree most part.

basically, the reason I started to deal with "self-help" is the fact that I KNEW that I carry a lot things from childhood and I wanted to change. Well, I changed, but panic and anxiety isn't really what I was aiming for :D
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Re: I feel ripped-off, and I'm mad at Eckhar Tolle

Postby Lowrey » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:30 pm

RCharles wrote:Lowrey, this is just a guess and could be totally off the mark, but it sounds as though the year you were practicing Tolle you may have actually been suppressing your feelings rather than watching them. The mind/ego may have tricked you so that instead of giving up control and letting thoughts and feelings be as they are and watching them, your mind was actually stuffing them down, controlling them, pretending they didn't exist and making you feel that you were very enlightened indeed because you had such powerful control over your mind.

What makes me say this? The vehemence with which all the thoughts and emotions suddenly came rushing back during and after your panic attack. When we stuff our emotions, they eventually explode with greater power. Karmarider gave you a wonderful suggestion about looking into the Sedona Method and also a variation of it on his website. These would be helpful to you if your emotions have been stuffed and now need to come out so you can see them and let them go.

Also, keep talking to people here about your understanding of Tolle. You may need to refine your approach to learn better how to live in the present without stuffing the feelings that your body/mind brings up.

Hope that helps and is not off the mark.

Chuck


thank you Chuck

1. I'll definetely WILL talk about my understanding of him, because I actually LOVED my life when I learned a bit from him. I want to clear this stupid idea from my mind that practicing his ideas can cause panic or anxiety.

I love his idea about being present, I hate his idea about "losing your personality". I love his idea about being calm and aware, I hate his idea about looking at the world as an "illusion".

2. about the supressing stuff, I think you're right, but I think I repressed my emotions ALL MY LIFE, and after reading Tolle and starting to deal with myself, I opened up the dark chamber of myself. I look at it as a detoxifying time. I AM better, and I WILL get better.
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