The Purpose of Form

Here you may share how the words Eckhart Tolle have affected your life.
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Sighclone
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The Purpose of Form

Post by Sighclone » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:59 pm

We read from Shankara’s Nirvana Shatakan that “I do not have a father or mother, nor was I ever born….I am awareness and uncaused happiness…I am everything…I am everything.”

So why are there fish? And angry stepmothers? And procrastination? And the “I thought?”

Or, as Stephen Hawking asked: “Why is there a universe?”

My take is that God was bored. And, since He/She cannot create anything which does not bear His/Her fingerprint, and that fingerprint has beauty and symmetry and marvel and wonder and power and immanence, that the universe, or the multi-verse, if you like, will reflect and mirror God perfectly in everything that happens. So much that the immense Void, so full of Grace is revealed in every molecule: “Form is exactly emptiness, emptiness, exactly form.” (Heart Sutra)

I have spent much of my adult work life not doing things until they were getting close to being due. And, of late, wondering about that. (Yes, yes, ‘who is wondering?…’) Perhaps it is better to say that I have been looking for God’s grace in that “bad” habit. And today it struck me. The universe has some very simple laws operating (as well as some rather subtle ones.) These laws are divine in origin and in every expression. And one of them is that certain things take a certain amount of time. Another is that the mind is a fine tool, and can work wonders at high speed, under pressure…and that there is some excitement at full throttle. So, in an odd way, farting around while I should be working on a project, actually allows, maybe even “forces” synchronous energies to appear during crunch time, OR NOT (and it’s not completed), and then the fundamental law of “good jobs requiring enough time to get them done” is still exalted, either way.

It’s still God reveling in the majesty of his creation, his delights at each element of it discovering itself anew. I have an eight-year-old step grandson around. He discovers something new about himself and his world every hour…he’s a great reminder of the universe unfolding in Self-discovery.

It is lila in maya, and it’s all good, every damn bit of it. Suffering, too, exalts the workings of the universe. If there is no food, we starve. Starvation itself is gruesome, as a refined quality expression of the divine (a human form) declines. But the fundamental laws of the universe are maintained, and there is beauty in that. Having never starved, I don’t know how horrible that must feel, and certainly there are less stressful ways to exalt the laws of the universe. But then, I was never born. Neither were you.

And that is good, too. Because we are, both of us, the Source, and all of That.

Happy Labor Day.

Namaste,

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: The Purpose of Form

Post by hanss » Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:10 pm

Sighclone wrote:My take is that God was bored.
Yup. Amen I mean. Nice readiing, thanks.
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
(Eckhart Tolle)

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Re: The Purpose of Form

Post by goldieflower » Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:11 pm

Sighclone wrote:I have spent much of my adult work life not doing things until they were getting close to being due.Happy Labor Day.

What made me feel better about my procrastination was this little sentence:

If you wait until the last minute to do something, it only takes a minute to do it - :lol:

Love the post, love ya, too, Andy!

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Re: The Purpose of Form

Post by runstrails » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:14 am

Nice post, Andy. This of course, is the ultimate question :D. None of the scriptures and none of the sages have a definitive answer. When Ramana Maharishi was asked this type of question, he always smiled and said simply "Gods will, it is inscrutable".
I sometimes get tied up in knots trying to figure it out. But then, I find that when I am alive to the present moment, this question completely disappears and it is replaced with a sense of (non-mental) knowing that perfection is just so.

I think we may figure out the 'how' of reality someday, but never the 'why'--not with our minds at least. Still, I'm happy that "I'm" here in form rather than not :wink:.

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Re: The Purpose of Form

Post by Sighclone » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:30 am

Of course my post presumes a "god" to have "will' and create stuff in his or her image, etc. And there is the danger of anthropomorphizing, etc. But, somehow, it seems "we" are "here" to experience the myriad manifestations of some in/external Being. Not respecting the laws we can observe makes us all the more subject to them. Recognizing the extreme limits of the more flexible ones (like how far can a human hit a golf ball) is great fun. As is making faces at a baby. It was a minor "aha moment" for me today, trying to understand my poky workstyle in the light of the infinite workplace.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: The Purpose of Form

Post by runstrails » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:41 am

Sighclone wrote:
But, somehow, it seems "we" are "here" to experience the myriad manifestations of some in/external Being.
This has to be it, doesn't it. At least to the limited human mind. It's someone's (consciousness') dream :wink:. Consciousness experiences it all through 'us'. Just like our dream characters sole purpose is to act out 'our' subconscious meanderings. What if a bunch of our dream characters got together on a forum and tried to figure out the reason for their existence :D.

You just can't ever understand it. But thank goodness you can 'be' it. 'Being' it solves the problem (most times anyway).

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Re: The Purpose of Form

Post by runstrails » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:40 am

OK, I'm rambling. But I'm enjoying this thread a lot so here goes:

We know that the dream (i.e., the world) is dependent on the dreamer (consciousness). It has no independent reality. So far so good.
But: Can the dreamer exist without the dream? Can awareness exist without something to be aware of?

I keep coming back to the Heart Sutra: 'Form is emptiness and emptiness is form". To imply otherwise would be separation. Perhaps its just as simple as: reality manifests/exists because that what it does. That's it nature. And the myriad of ways in which the illusions manifest is simply stunning. An incredible oneness of nothing and everything.

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Re: The Purpose of Form

Post by smiileyjen101 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:26 am

even more random - does a butterfly remember being a caterpillar?

does a caterpillar know it will be a butterfly?
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Re: The Purpose of Form

Post by indy » Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:27 am

Nisargadatta says there is no you without god and without you there is no god. Therefore in my opinion when god becomes conscious of himself..me you and the universe exist, prior to that nothingness. Its like the big bang theory.

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Re: The Purpose of Form

Post by Sighclone » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:12 am

Form and emptiness. There can be emptiness without form, but there cannot be form without emptiness, physically speaking...for there to be a planet, it has to be distinct from the space around it. So emptiness was first, both conceptually and experientially. As we evolve spiritually from the experience of unity consciousness in meditation to complete awakening in which all form is seen as and felt to be a perfect expression of Source, including Ugly Betty.

Or so those who are far wiser than I say.

And then even Nisargadatta might have a smoke.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: The Purpose of Form

Post by snowheight » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:25 am

Andy,

I am, no kidding, procrastinating a doc I've got to push out by responding to your thoughtful and well-expressed message. Thank you for that sir.
runstrails wrote: We know that the dream (i.e., the world) is dependent on the dreamer (consciousness). It has no independent reality. So far so good.
But: Can the dreamer exist without the dream? Can awareness exist without something to be aware of?

I keep coming back to the Heart Sutra: 'Form is emptiness and emptiness is form". To imply otherwise would be separation. Perhaps its just as simple as: reality manifests/exists because that what it does. That's it nature. And the myriad of ways in which the illusions manifest is simply stunning. An incredible oneness of nothing and everything.
Which, in turn, implies that instead of:
Sighclone wrote: God was bored
There is a necessity of sort, to the whole dance, just like indy just said as I was typing!

-----------------------------------------
smiileyjen101 wrote:even more random - does a butterfly remember being a caterpillar?

does a caterpillar know it will be a butterfly?
It occurred to me, after Rick's post from this thread, that in addition to the unification in opposites of "Original Sin"/"Ignorance of True Nature", that the "I am the Whole (God)"/"Turning away from God" dichotomy is exactly the same type of unification ... this is the way that Rick put it:
Rick wrote:Only man can turn his back on the purpose for which he is created and fall into the illusion of ego that allows him to reject God to be his own god.
Interpreted literally, what Rick wrote would seem to be the opposite of what enigma wrote here:
enigma wrote:I remember as a teenager vowing to fight this miserable bastard called God, as it seemed the only 'human' thing to do. Turns out, I AM that miserable bastard. Hehe.
Take either quote out of context, or, even really, even more than just context is needed ... it required contemplation of this whole gig by the mind .. and without that these quotes seem diametrically opposed when actually they are saying exactly the same thing.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

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Re: The Purpose of Form

Post by smiileyjen101 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:00 am

Nice noticing snow!
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: The Purpose of Form

Post by Sighclone » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:54 pm

But: Can the dreamer exist without the dream? Can awareness exist without something to be aware of?
Hawking gets into this in his latest book "The Grand Design." Talks about the anthropic principle, i.e. the universe exists because there are sentient beings here to observe and enjoy it. It seems the word "spiritual" will become obsolete as spiritual truths are "discovered" by science. I've only ordered the book, haven't read it.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: The Purpose of Form

Post by forgotaboutbre » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:59 pm

We are all artists on this Canvas of space and time. We've come here to create, to partake, as eternal imagination unfolds into never-ending creative possibilities.

I have a sneaky little suspicion you and I are talking about the same thing Andy ;-) Reality. It. Truth. A million signposts all point back to the source. Catch a wave and ride it for a while. Notice what happens. This is the real change we are able to manifest in our lives.

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Re: The Purpose of Form

Post by Sighclone » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:32 am

I agree, bre, we are probably speaking the same message. I think "pointers" in words can be utterly glorious for Person A and completely meaningless to Person B. In this forum, we actually tolerate a huge variety of completely-off-the-wall phrases, so long as they are civil. I can't tell you how many I have personally glossed over, many of which might have completely captivated the Andy of three years ago.

These days, it is the expressions of personal experience which most interest me, less so the "refinements of understanding" which appear often. That is simply personal preference, not a discount of the lovely, rational arguments of fine members like snowheight and Ananda at all.

I get these "inspirations," like the original post here and then sort of burp them out onto the blue screen...they are just my "concept of the moment.' I do present them assertively, but always respect alternative interpretations.

About six months ago, the thought "Maya is a collective dream" crossed my mind in a very authoritative way... :)

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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