Emotions: good & bad

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Emotions: good & bad

Postby ranell » Sun May 13, 2012 9:19 pm

Good evening all,
I asked my self about a context of this part of "the power of now"
Emotions, on the other hand, being part of the dualistic mind, are subject to the law of opposites. This simply means that you cannot have good without bad.

how can we see the good in the bad ? maybe by asking our selves how can we make disappeared the bad by using the good ?
Have any exemple ?
Thanks :)
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Re: Emotions: good & bad

Postby Webwanderer » Sun May 13, 2012 10:01 pm

Emotions, on the other hand, being part of the dualistic mind, are subject to the law of opposites. This simply means that you cannot have good without bad.

My sense on this is well explained in another Tolle example where he referred to the color blue. If everything was the exact same color (blue) then there would be no blue, nor any color, simply because there would be nothing else to make blue stand out as such. To make anything identifiable, it must be unique to something else - red.

In the same way emotions being subject to the law of opposites are made clear by the distinction in the different feelings - good (pleasant) emotions vs bad (painful) emotions. If all was the same there would be nothing to make a single emotion stand out. So, in this human experience, where life can often be painful, it is the contrast from good that makes good stand out and desirable.

WW
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Re: Emotions: good & bad

Postby ranell » Mon May 14, 2012 2:26 am

@Webwanderer , thanks :) i like your example :wink:
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Re: Emotions: good & bad

Postby Golf » Mon May 14, 2012 6:35 pm

ranell wrote:Good evening all,
I asked my self about a context of this part of "the power of now"
Emotions, on the other hand, being part of the dualistic mind, are subject to the law of opposites. This simply means that you cannot have good without bad.

how can we see the good in the bad ? maybe by asking our selves how can we make disappeared the bad by using the good ?
Have any exemple ?
Thanks :)


I believe I understand this differently, I think he means something like:

Feeling excited and hyped up when for example playing computer games, riding snowboard, plaing paintball, having sex maybe... some experience like that.
Afterwards feeling tense, bored by the rest of your life, finding yourself trying to get back to the hyped experience, for example neglecting work or study and playing games to get back to the "good" feelings. Or always wanting to buy a better snowboard, ride more exciting trails, not being content anymore with what you have now.

Because he says that sensations like love, peace, joy, are not emotions that come from the mind, that shift between "good" and "bad", and make you want to pursue one and avoid the other.
"If you're so smart, how come you're working at a gas station?"
-"It's a service station. We offer service, there is no higher purpose."
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Re: Emotions: good & bad

Postby Jbrooke » Sat May 19, 2012 4:00 am

Well said, Golf! That really struck me. Differentiating the mind emotions from the other, more indefinite sensations. We always seem to merge the sensations of "excitement, thrill, feeling high on life" with true joy and peace. And yet, they are so fundamentally different.
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Re: Emotions: good & bad

Postby DavidB » Tue May 22, 2012 2:03 pm

"Bad" emotions, so to speak, provide the opportunity to know one's self better, and then, provide the opportunity to release old thought patterns.

Automatic negative emotions can be revealing, often painful or traumatic or in the very least uncomfortable, yet if we are present when we experience these emotions, we will reveal to the light of consciousness the true nature of the emotional attachment and how it is affecting our behavior. We can then find within, the opportunity to choose peace rather than the automatic negative reactivity, freeing us from the bondage of thought identity and allowing salvation.

Much easier said than done of course, but the more we practice conscious awareness, becoming aware of our thoughts and emotions, allowing them to arise, seeing them for what they are, and then choosing peace instead, we find then that peace becomes increasingly effortless as the old mind and emotion patterns dissolve.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Emotions: good & bad

Postby ashley72 » Tue May 22, 2012 11:02 pm

ranell wrote:
....This simply means that you cannot have good without bad.

how can we see the good in the bad ? maybe by asking our selves how can we make disappeared the bad by using the good ?
Have any exemple ?
Thanks :)


Hi Ranell,

The victim/victimizer dual pair is a good example. Whenever there is a victim, there must also be a victimizer arising.

The victimizer disappears when the victim disappears. How does the victim disappear? By seeing directly that your true nature is what attends to both the victim/victimizer pair. In other words, you cannot be the victim because you're are what attends to both victim & victimizer!

Our nature is attentive, by attending to our attentive nature we create space between arising victim/victimizer thoughts & feelings. :D
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Re: Emotions: good & bad

Postby DavidB » Wed May 23, 2012 2:47 pm

I have an example.

I was waiting for an elevator to arrive, when the door opened 2 people next to me entered first, even though I was waiting longest. No big deal really but I immediately felt diminished, as though I was dismissed, invisible, unimportant, unworthy, I felt I had been wronged by their perceived rudeness, I felt anger and malice. I felt like being rude back, saying something nasty like, "oh, after you", in a sarcastic condescending tone.

All these feelings and thoughts arose in a matter of a few seconds, the mind manifested very quickly.

Being present however, enabled me to witness all of these things as they arose. I then felt a smile emerge as I was able to dis-identify with these automatic thought patters, only a small one on my face, mostly an internal smiling. I was able to witness this conditioned self arise, which provided me a wonderful opportunity to know this self better. I was then able to choose compassion and choose peace instead, helping to uncondition the past destructive behavioral patterns.



Conditioned thought patters can be viewed as a feed back loop into the unconscious mind from the conscious mind and back again. As we learn to uncondition destructive thought patterns by altering the way we respond to these patterns through present conscious awareness, eventually the pattern that will arise is an unconditioned pattern, rather than the destructive pattern that was initially arising. This actually makes the job of deconstruction very easy, as we do not need to do anything about the negative thought patterns, we only need to be present and compassionate and peace will then arise on it's own.

This is how we undo negative Karma.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Emotions: good & bad

Postby Golf » Wed May 23, 2012 2:58 pm

DavidB, this is an excellent example on how to handle thoughts and emotions! I noticed you started posting just recently and all your posts have been very insightful.
(But don't let your ego start "feeling good" about it! :D :wink: )
"If you're so smart, how come you're working at a gas station?"
-"It's a service station. We offer service, there is no higher purpose."
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Re: Emotions: good & bad

Postby Jbrooke » Wed May 23, 2012 10:55 pm

Ditto on what golf said!

Been having a lot of similar experiences to the elevator one DavidB talked about. And instead of guilting myself for even having the initial negative reaction in the first place I am trying to practice simply accepting it and taking more of an interest in it instead. And this allows me to take on a new perspective when responding. Been finding that it's getting a little easier as I continue approaching it this way.

Funny how only a month ago it would never have occurred to me to NOT beat myself up for feeling irritated or angry or impatient when a car cuts me off or someone takes my place in the checkout line or doesn't hold the door open for me while I am trying to get in or out of the door with groceries and an infant. I don't HAVE to feel guilty if these feelings arise. I can observe the feelings/thoughts and accept them and go from there. What a concept! :D
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Re: Emotions: good & bad

Postby DavidB » Thu May 24, 2012 1:51 am

Golf wrote:DavidB, this is an excellent example on how to handle thoughts and emotions! I noticed you started posting just recently and all your posts have been very insightful.
(But don't let your ego start "feeling good" about it! :D :wink: )



Thank you for the complement Golf. And thank you for the reminder. :)
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Emotions: good & bad

Postby DavidB » Thu May 24, 2012 1:56 am

Jbrooke wrote:Ditto on what golf said!

Been having a lot of similar experiences to the elevator one DavidB talked about. And instead of guilting myself for even having the initial negative reaction in the first place I am trying to practice simply accepting it and taking more of an interest in it instead. And this allows me to take on a new perspective when responding. Been finding that it's getting a little easier as I continue approaching it this way.

Funny how only a month ago it would never have occurred to me to NOT beat myself up for feeling irritated or angry or impatient when a car cuts me off or someone takes my place in the checkout line or doesn't hold the door open for me while I am trying to get in or out of the door with groceries and an infant. I don't HAVE to feel guilty if these feelings arise. I can observe the feelings/thoughts and accept them and go from there. What a concept! :D




Unconditional acceptance of what arises within us is how we practice unconditional love. When we can do that for ourselves, we are then able to see how everybody else is exactly like us, and we can then extend that acceptance to others and unconditionally love what arises within them as well.

This doesn't mean though that we need to be passive, if the situation arises where we need to take action, then that is accepted as well.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Emotions: good & bad

Postby ashley72 » Thu May 24, 2012 3:18 am

DavidB wrote:I have an example.


Thanks for sharing... good example.


DavidB wrote:I was waiting for an elevator to arrive, when the door opened 2 people next to me entered first, even though I was waiting longest. No big deal really but I immediately felt diminished, as though I was dismissed, invisible, unimportant, unworthy, I felt I had been wronged by their perceived rudeness, I felt anger and malice.


This is the image of victim arising as stream of discrete thoughts. All concepts have a polar opposite, so the image of a victimizer must also arise.

DavidB wrote:I felt like being rude back, saying something nasty like, "oh, after you", in a sarcastic condescending tone.


The fight or flight principle. The victim imagines the victimizer as a threat... therefore the need to "do" something to avoid the threat also arises.

DavidB wrote:All these feelings and thoughts arose in a matter of a few seconds, the mind manifested very quickly.


When our attention is outwardly attentive, we get caught up in the story of me (victim).

DavidB wrote:Being present however, enabled me to witness all of these things as they arose.


Realising that our true nature attends to these stories of victim/victimizer.... opens up space to allow other responses or reactions to arise.

DavidB wrote: I then felt a smile emerge as I was able to dis-identify with these automatic thought patters, only a small one on my face, mostly an internal smiling. I was able to witness this conditioned self arise, which provided me a wonderful opportunity to know this self better. I was then able to choose compassion and choose peace instead, helping to uncondition the past destructive behavioral patterns.


This is key, by realising our attentive nature is attending to these thought patterns allows new unconditioned thought patterns to arise which are more in tune with the Now.

DavidB wrote:Conditioned thought patterns can be viewed as a feed back loop into the unconscious mind from the conscious mind and back again. As we learn to uncondition destructive thought patterns by altering the way we respond to these patterns through present conscious awareness, eventually the pattern that will arise is an unconditioned pattern, rather than the destructive pattern that was initially arising. This actually makes the job of deconstruction very easy, as we do not need to do anything about the negative thought patterns, we only need to be present and compassionate and peace will then arise on it's own.


A feedback loop (recursive thought) arises because thought is not a continuous process, but is a rapid sequence of discrete snapshot-like observations (20 images/sec). "Between" successive phenomena or appearances, there is only our Attentive nature which is a continuous spherical wave-function, a very complex one (in/out standing spherical wave). By realising directly our true nature continuously attends to all these appearances, we break the cycle of "recursive" condition-thought-patterns.

You're right, there is nothing to do except be attentive to our attentive nature, which is our true nature. :D

A great quote...

It is the nature of the mind to wander. You are not the mind. The mind springs up and sinks down. It is impermanent, transitory, whereas you are eternal, To inhere in the Self is the thing. Never mind the mind, In the realized man the mind may be active or inactive, the Self alone remains for him. Ramana Maharshi
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Re: Emotions: good & bad

Postby ranell » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:21 pm

Even after few months, but with such immortals questions i've always something to add :)

DavidB wrote:"Bad" emotions, so to speak, provide the opportunity to know one's self better, and then, provide the opportunity to release old thought patterns.

Automatic negative emotions can be revealing, often painful or traumatic or in the very least uncomfortable, yet if we are present when we experience these emotions, we will reveal to the light of consciousness the true nature of the emotional attachment and how it is affecting our behavior. We can then find within, the opportunity to choose peace rather than the automatic negative reactivity, freeing us from the bondage of thought identity and allowing salvation.

Much easier said than done of course, but the more we practice conscious awareness, becoming aware of our thoughts and emotions, allowing them to arise, seeing them for what they are, and then choosing peace instead, we find then that peace becomes increasingly effortless as the old mind and emotion patterns dissolve.


I like it ! Also I like you exemple about the elevator , it reminds me what Carl Gustav Jung had said :

" Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves. "


After that i find that the analogy of ashley72 with the exemple of DavidB is very relevent :)

ashley72 wrote:
A feedback loop (recursive thought) arises because thought is not a continuous process, but is a rapid sequence of discrete snapshot-like observations (20 images/sec). "Between" successive phenomena or appearances, there is only our Attentive nature which is a continuous spherical wave-function, a very complex one (in/out standing spherical wave). By realising directly our true nature continuously attends to all these appearances, we break the cycle of "recursive" condition-thought-patterns.

You're right, there is nothing to do except be attentive to our attentive nature, which is our true nature. :D

A great quote...

It is the nature of the mind to wander. You are not the mind. The mind springs up and sinks down. It is impermanent, transitory, whereas you are eternal, To inhere in the Self is the thing. Never mind the mind, In the realized man the mind may be active or inactive, the Self alone remains for him. Ramana Maharshi


I've in fact noticed that the major source of negative feeling is resistance towards events , circonstances, attitudes of others persons, and fundamentally it has like the same process of victimisation/codependency that you described..

" There are no victims and no perpetrators anymore, no accuser and accused. This is also the end of all codependency "

That's really nice to read you :)
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Re: Emotions: good & bad

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:43 am

Thank you for bringing this topic back up.

Nice sharing! I really like this.. I hadn't realised it was from Jung... maybe its an ancient understanding in some cultures.

like it ! Also I like you example about the elevator , it reminds me what Carl Gustav Jung had said :

" Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves. "


The 'irk' is felt by us in our processing of it.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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