Best way to dissolve the all the pain bodies.

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Best way to dissolve the all the pain bodies.

Postby Jayakanth » Tue May 22, 2012 8:55 pm

Hey guys,

I am committed to transforming my life and have been practicing presence for a while now. I would like to ask some questions here in order to get a general direction of how I can achieve this.

Tolle recommends not labeling the emotion when we are trying to dissolve it. My question is this. There are certain pain bodies that are deeply entrenched. Instead of waiting for it to be triggered, is it possible to call it up and dissolve it? For example, to handle my "problem" of neediness, can i recount an experience when I have been needy and dissolve it when I'm recollecting it? Or if I have anger towards someone, can i recollect the anger towards him by thinking of the way he has made me angry in the past and dissolve it?

He recommends that the inner body meditation be done everyday. My question is this. By doing this everyday, are all the pain bodies brought to the surface and dissolved eventually. How deep can we go with this presence meditation?

Rgds
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Re: Best way to dissolve the all the pain bodies.

Postby rideforever » Tue May 22, 2012 11:52 pm

Yes good question. I just went through a cycle of about 4 months when I was trying to dig out all the pain, and learnt to trigger it.

I tried a number of different things and found a way to trigger pain reliably, then I went about doing it 3 times a day. Although I got tired sometimes and took days off.

I found that actually I was subtly triggered frequently but just had not noticed it. And that for me if I went anywhere with a lot of people I would instantly be in contact, so I would do that. In fact I would sit near crowds of people deeply aware of pain, I wore sunglasses to prevent any direct contact with people - so they coudn't see what I was doing.

I downloaded some guided meditations from Belleruth Naparstek which were my final piece to triggering pain reliably. Works a charm.

I suppose it is possible to trigger pain dishonestly, and you need to watch for that - then it might arrive with a layer of effort. And sometimes you have to recognise that you are tired, and that this isn't the right time to do it.
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Re: Best way to dissolve the all the pain bodies.

Postby Jayakanth » Wed May 23, 2012 8:16 am

Thanks for the reply.

I wonder if the process requires any effort at all. From your post, it is evident that you intentionally went out to trigger pain and used external stimulation to surface the pain body. I was thinking more like triggering a memory that would bring up the pain body. From my understanding, this should be very simple to do, but the more i'm looking for a reaction, the more it does not come.
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Re: Best way to dissolve the all the pain bodies.

Postby DavidB » Wed May 23, 2012 3:12 pm

Good question.

I haven't given this idea any contemplation myself, having never thought it myself. Intuitively I feel that this practice, is probably not necessary.

Our primary focus ought to be always present moment awareness, allowing whatever to be, to be as it is. Our secondary focus though can be whatever else we happen to be doing, which could possibly include some of what you have proposed.

I think that what is probably the best practice in this circumstance, is simply taking the focus into the inner body and meditating on bringing presence into the pain body, and then if the pain body is there or arises, then just keep your focus in the pain body, not with any intention however, simply being aware of the pain with compassion.

Bringing presence into the pain body is our intention, so to speak, not to attempt to dissolve the pain body, which would be counter productive, but to instead accept the pain body with unconditional love. It will transform and dissolve on it's own.
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Re: Best way to dissolve the all the pain bodies.

Postby rideforever » Wed May 23, 2012 9:15 pm

Jayakanth wrote:Thanks for the reply.

I wonder if the process requires any effort at all. From your post, it is evident that you intentionally went out to trigger pain and used external stimulation to surface the pain body. I was thinking more like triggering a memory that would bring up the pain body. From my understanding, this should be very simple to do, but the more i'm looking for a reaction, the more it does not come.
Well I began with triggering memories; however many of the pain bodies were created when I was very young and pre-verbal and so they weren't really any visual/conceptual memories - just the pain body. Also, I realised that having a memory is a bit of a distraction - it doesn't so much matter where the pain body comes from and you can waste a lot of time analysing the 'memory' rather than working through contact with the pain body. At some point I just thought I will put myself into the right place and be in contact with whatever comes; if I detected several bodies I just picked one that seemed most present.

Basically I tried many things until I found a way to work effectively. It is good if you can realise that this is what you are doing. From time to time I reflected on my approach, whether it was working, whether it needed changing. But when I was working, I was just working.

In terms of your difficulties, it does require focus and skill to unpick what is occurring and detect the different bodies and phenomena. It is a meditation. Also, I went through a phase of doing that work, now I am no longer doing it because the energy feels different. At that time I felt doing the work was the only way for me and I was very drawn to it, I went in with intensity. Somedays however nothing would happen, probably when I was insincerely trying and really wanting to do something else, or tired inside.
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Re: Best way to dissolve the all the pain bodies.

Postby Jayakanth » Thu May 24, 2012 7:06 pm

Tolle talks about practicing presence as something that we can get better at. So, i guess its normal to look at it at a skill. But by looking at it that way, isnt it something that requires time to perfect? By thinking about it as skill that can be improved, we are definitely gonna look at it as a technique right. Is that a good, bad thing?

Tolle also talks about paying full attention to the pain body in order to dissolve it. Ive read from j krishnamurthi that u cannot identify with the emotion. U should become one with the emotion so that it can be dissolved.

And id like to know how we can dissolve thoughts. Say we have a stream of thoughts thats running in our head, do we just pay attention to it without any attachment and judgement of it?

Thanks
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Re: Best way to dissolve the all the pain bodies.

Postby rideforever » Thu May 24, 2012 10:06 pm

Tolle also talks about paying full attention to the pain body in order to dissolve it. Ive read from j krishnamurthi that u cannot identify with the emotion. U should become one with the emotion so that it can be dissolved.

Using techniques of stability like anapasati you create a stable platform to work from. Using this you unpick yourself from the entanglement from the mind to discover yourself. Once you have done that you go back into the mind and become one with all, never losing yourself.

These masters are pointing to very profound things. They are talking to different audiences at different times for different reasons. There is no use in searching for the answer by cross-checking their dialogue.

There is no explaining these things. Experiment. Learn. Try with all your heart.
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Re: Best way to dissolve the all the pain bodies.

Postby Jayakanth » Fri May 25, 2012 8:44 pm

rideforever wrote:
Tolle also talks about paying full attention to the pain body in order to dissolve it. Ive read from j krishnamurthi that u cannot identify with the emotion. U should become one with the emotion so that it can be dissolved.

Using techniques of stability like anapasati you create a stable platform to work from. Using this you unpick yourself from the entanglement from the mind to discover yourself. Once you have done that you go back into the mind and become one with all, never losing yourself.

These masters are pointing to very profound things. They are talking to different audiences at different times for different reasons. There is no use in searching for the answer by cross-checking their dialogue.

There is no explaining these things. Experiment. Learn. Try with all your heart.


Yes thank you. J.Krishnamurthi even said. Don't experiment with my teachings. Experiment with yourself. Me trying to figure stuff out logically isn't going to help much. I will experiment more and have been experimenting. Thanks for the advice.
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Re: Best way to dissolve the all the pain bodies.

Postby Jayakanth » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:14 am

Regarding dissolving the pain bodies, I'm having some trouble doing that especially for pain bodies that are very subtle. Like there are this mild sort of uncomfortable energy in my body. I realize that in order to dissolve it, u must 'become' the pain body rather than paying attention to it which creates a duality. Any help how i can attain this state of non dualistic awareness? Or is the answer just to attain it by practice?
Thanks
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Re: Best way to dissolve the all the pain bodies.

Postby rideforever » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:22 am

To really surrender is a risk, you risk yourself. Are you willing ? Is this your destiny ?
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Re: Best way to dissolve the all the pain bodies.

Postby DavidB » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:17 am

Jayakanth wrote:Regarding dissolving the pain bodies, I'm having some trouble doing that especially for pain bodies that are very subtle. Like there are this mild sort of uncomfortable energy in my body. I realize that in order to dissolve it, u must 'become' the pain body rather than paying attention to it which creates a duality. Any help how i can attain this state of non dualistic awareness? Or is the answer just to attain it by practice?
Thanks



You never attempt to dissolve the pain body, this will only ever result in strengthening it.

Knowing that the pain body is an aspect of our humanness is enough, and then treating that pain with compassion when it arises. You won't rid yourself of the pain body, it is an aspect of the inherent polarity of the universe, it is programmed if you will, within the very DNA, within the atoms and structures that make up the human entity.

The pain body isn't personal, it is an aspect of our physical form. There is nothing you can do about, nor should you, as this only personalizes it. The pain body is not a problem to be fixed or to be extinguished, it is an aspect of who we are on a physical level and therefore can only ever be accepted for what it is. It is this acceptance that allows the pain body to move through without becoming disruptive, without creating further attachment or identification.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Best way to dissolve the all the pain bodies.

Postby Jayakanth » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:38 am

DavidB wrote:
Jayakanth wrote:Regarding dissolving the pain bodies, I'm having some trouble doing that especially for pain bodies that are very subtle. Like there are this mild sort of uncomfortable energy in my body. I realize that in order to dissolve it, u must 'become' the pain body rather than paying attention to it which creates a duality. Any help how i can attain this state of non dualistic awareness? Or is the answer just to attain it by practice?
Thanks



You never attempt to dissolve the pain body, this will only ever result in strengthening it.

Knowing that the pain body is an aspect of our humanness is enough, and then treating that pain with compassion when it arises. You won't rid yourself of the pain body, it is an aspect of the inherent polarity of the universe, it is programmed if you will, within the very DNA, within the atoms and structures that make up the human entity.

The pain body isn't personal, it is an aspect of our physical form. There is nothing you can do about, nor should you, as this only personalizes it. The pain body is not a problem to be fixed or to be extinguished, it is an aspect of who we are on a physical level and therefore can only ever be accepted for what it is. It is this acceptance that allows the pain body to move through without becoming disruptive, without creating further attachment or identification.


Yup, I know what u mean. Unconsciously, my mind is like " I need to use presence to extinguish the pain body". But truth of the matter is that it actaully is counter-productive. Like tolle said, 'the ego has come thru the back door'. Thanks.
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Re: Best way to dissolve the all the pain bodies.

Postby DavidB » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:57 pm

Yup, I know what u mean. Unconsciously, my mind is like " I need to use presence to extinguish the pain body". But truth of the matter is that it actaully is counter-productive. Like tolle said, 'the ego has come thru the back door'. Thanks.


Your welcome.

As a matter of interest, I find that there comes a time when practicing 'presence' becomes an obstacle to growth. I mean to say, there comes a point when even practicing presence needs to be dropped.

The true nature of being is like a state of blissful ignorance, where there is no practice but simply being what is right now. This can become difficult for us when we have spent so long learning what Eckhart has taught us for example. All these ideas and techniques need to be dropped though in order that pure experience can be experienced. This is really what Eckhart is attempting to convey I believe, but because he is attempting to convey this message with ideas and concepts ( not his fault of course, there is no other way to communicate), it tends to come across as a something that needs to be done or practiced, which is not the case at all.

If we can remember a time when we were very young, a time when we can just remember becoming conscious. We didn't really know anything much and hadn't yet begun to identify anything. We found everything interesting and novel but had no idea what everything was and hadn't yet learned what they were all called or how they worked. This is that beautiful innocent ignorance which comes before we develop into human personalities.

Presence is a lot like that. We don't need to know anything, practice anything or discover anything. There is no mystery to be solved, it is already there within you, it's just been covered up with ideas and identifications. Dropping all that you think you are or that you think you need to achieve, is blissfully ignorant, yet at the same time, intelligence itself.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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