Limitations of the Present Moment

Talk about anything Tolle-related here.

Limitations of the Present Moment

Postby rideforever » Tue May 22, 2012 9:47 pm

Hello

Resting in the present moment is a profound change. But is that it ? Why should that be it ?

Many 'enlightened' masters have existed. They reached a place that satisfied them, and they stopped, and started teaching. However from their testimony they were all in different places.

Consider : buddha, padmasambhava, osho, mahavira, ramana, nisargadatta, j krishnamurti, ug krishnamurti, eckhart tolle. They were all in different places.

Yes it is good to feel that you are at an end ... but it is a testimony to the general profound unawakeness of mankind ... that people seem not to comment on the fact that all these masters have arrived in different places. Perhaps they all agree on absence of thoughts ... but after that the stories are very different.

I don't think this can be easily dismissed.

There are many ways to lobotomise yourself, many ways. The present moment is not a 'crude' way. But crickey if you listen to other masters they are asking more of you.

Perhaps it is a way to end suffering; but that doesn't mean it is the ultimate.

And what is thought if it has no value; what is the world if it has no value. Surely there is a more profound secret then knowing how to end it.
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small
User avatar
rideforever
 
Posts: 1513
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Hove

Re: Limitations of the Present Moment

Postby Golf » Wed May 23, 2012 10:26 am

Wait a sec...

The way I see it, attaining "enlightenment" or "spiritual realization" are just fancy words. What I think they mean, is simply becoming more and more normal, natural, more yourself.
Maybe it's easier to see it that way if you can see that practically everyone you know, is actually living out their lives controlled by unconscious patterns, programming from the past, that they are slightly bored, unhappy, frustrated, that they are "having a problem".
And that the challenge in life is actually simply to turn back to "normal", "natural" again.

And when this is done (to a certain degree perhaps), then you really, indeed, start to live, only then do you see the meaning, become useful and of service to yourself and to the world. Becoming "spiritual" is just becoming alive again, it's a beginning, not an end, in my opinion. And the "value" of things is only then really clearly seen, and can guide you in choosing your further actions.

But this time of "unconsciousness", when we still strive toward becoming more "conscious", obviously has meaning too... it's a pathway towards "becoming" yourself again. Becoming "perfected by suffering" if you will. Not easy to endure, but looking back I think it's happening the only way it's supposed to happen.
"If you're so smart, how come you're working at a gas station?"
-"It's a service station. We offer service, there is no higher purpose."
8)
Golf
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 4:44 pm

Re: Limitations of the Present Moment

Postby rideforever » Wed May 23, 2012 10:40 am

Well I feel really relaxed reading your description, it is very lovely. Other descriptions have described the goal as "a clear unbroken unity with the divine, completion".
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small
User avatar
rideforever
 
Posts: 1513
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Hove

Re: Limitations of the Present Moment

Postby Golf » Wed May 23, 2012 11:27 am

rideforever wrote:Well I feel really relaxed reading your description, it is very lovely.


You do? That's really nice, thanks! :)
What I learned in the past weeks on this forum, is that many of the opinions our minds have on how we should see things or behave, are heavy, burdening, unsettling...
And we should pay much more attention to the ideas that resonate in us, that "feel" relaxing, lovely, as you expressed it. Maybe they are the "inner compass" that some people thalk about, not just "of the mind".

Other descriptions have described the goal as "a clear unbroken unity with the divine, completion".


Well I think that's probably "correct", but a bit too mystical for an average person, and probably "too much" for someone struggling with fear and unhappiness.
I mean, the first thing this person wants, is relief, peace, calmness, contentment...
If you're depressed, you don't wake up and first feel, "I really want a clear unbroken unity with the divine today". You feel you want relief.

Maybe when you at some point in your journey finally overcome those persistent negative and self-sabotaging states, and start feeling more at peace, natural, happy, maybe then you get to experience those higher "mystical" states, like oneness with the universe, connectedness of all beings... Maybe that is just an icing on the cake. Or it is a whole new world opening up for you once you've attained basic peace and well-being.
Maybe it opens up for select few people, mystics, who choose less "worldly" functions, but maybe the majority of people who attain peace choose to then remain in their "worldly" functions (work, family, parenting...), but performing them really well and in harmony with the world (I believe that's what I would love, I don't dream of becoming some mystic at this time :mrgreen: )
"If you're so smart, how come you're working at a gas station?"
-"It's a service station. We offer service, there is no higher purpose."
8)
Golf
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 4:44 pm

Re: Limitations of the Present Moment

Postby rideforever » Wed May 23, 2012 1:53 pm

I wonder if it is really possible to approach the path by first looking for relaxation; and then going further.

Because it seems to me the problem is that there is no stable ground until you reach unity. And so any 'work' you do (if you'll forgive the metaphors) is based on an imaginary stability ... so you feel relaxed, but really it is a kind of blocking/numbness at a subtle level. You relax, but it is unconsciousness actually.

But deep within there is a niggle - the niggle is the message that tells you this isn't it, and if you are sincere it will turn over the hammock you were resting in. It's not a choice you make to like or not like, to be relaxed or not ... it is just honesty of what is happening within. There is a pulse it is telling you to seek.

It seems clear to me that there is no stable ground. You can imagine some, but it is not honest at a deep level. And so the desperation for unity is the desperation of someone who has no stable ground, who has nothing but the 'urge' to reach. And there is nothing to do but to struggle in the darkness until you find the other live wire, and connect the two.

I can relax. I can lie on the beach. I can die right now. But it's not unity - within there is an understanding that the itch has not been scratched.
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small
User avatar
rideforever
 
Posts: 1513
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Hove

Re: Limitations of the Present Moment

Postby Golf » Thu May 24, 2012 10:49 pm

rideforever wrote:I wonder if it is really possible to approach the path by first looking for relaxation; and then going further.

Because it seems to me the problem is that there is no stable ground until you reach unity. And so any 'work' you do (if you'll forgive the metaphors) is based on an imaginary stability ... so you feel relaxed, but really it is a kind of blocking/numbness at a subtle level. You relax, but it is unconsciousness actually.

But deep within there is a niggle - the niggle is the message that tells you this isn't it, and if you are sincere it will turn over the hammock you were resting in. It's not a choice you make to like or not like, to be relaxed or not ... it is just honesty of what is happening within. There is a pulse it is telling you to seek.

It seems clear to me that there is no stable ground. You can imagine some, but it is not honest at a deep level. And so the desperation for unity is the desperation of someone who has no stable ground, who has nothing but the 'urge' to reach. And there is nothing to do but to struggle in the darkness until you find the other live wire, and connect the two.

I can relax. I can lie on the beach. I can die right now. But it's not unity - within there is an understanding that the itch has not been scratched.


I've been trying to understand this post... do you mean, like some kind of "restlessness", always telling you "this isn't it" or "you're still unconscious, keep searching"?
In my experience, the thing "motivating" me to read spiritual stuff, practice awareness, is still the inner discomfort I feel, and a belief, or shall we even say, knowing that life can be much more peaceful and harmonious than what I feel.
But I have a few times every day when I just lie down for a few minutes, relax physically and mentally, and forget about all the searching. Then I feel a bit calmer, and motivation returns, so I get up and practice awareness again.

But If you're motivated by a restless, nagging feeling, that doesn't let up, then it might even be the ego itself. It is not acceptance of your current state or surrender to it, but an attempt for control. And such an impulse should be dis-identified from...
"If you're so smart, how come you're working at a gas station?"
-"It's a service station. We offer service, there is no higher purpose."
8)
Golf
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 4:44 pm

Re: Limitations of the Present Moment

Postby ZenDrumming » Thu May 24, 2012 11:41 pm

The joy in life lies in bringing harmony to the discordant, like a game of solitaire. We are here to figure it out, forget, then figure it out again. It is the journey, it's rediscovering love, and it's wonderful.

I suggest you switch your focus off of these "enlightened masters" and go for a walk!
User avatar
ZenDrumming
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:38 am


Return to General Eckhart Tolle Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron