Best way to change deep seated beliefs/attachments.

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Best way to change deep seated beliefs/attachments.

Postby Jayakanth » Mon May 28, 2012 7:52 pm

Hi guys,

Suppose I have a deep seated need. Like if I believe that a relationship with someone will cure all my ego's problems. I feel needy and get hurt when i feel rejected.

In order to change that belief, how do u go about that?
How can u be present to that belief?

Since it is a deep seated belief, how can we consciously work on changing it? Since presence only applies to pain bodies, unless the pain body is triggered, then I will not be able to be present. Thank you!
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Re: Best way to change deep seated beliefs/attachments.

Postby smiileyjen101 » Mon May 28, 2012 9:14 pm

Hi Jaya,that's an interesting question.

In order to know you are already enough, that you are already love before and without the false beliefs maybe you have to go through the manifested beliefs to uncover their falseness.

So in your example, maybe one will find a relationship and through being in it realise that the love comes not from without, but from within to pour into the relationship. If/when the relationship changes or ends we realise that we still have the capacity to be love, therefore exposing the untruth of the belief.

Guess that's what life's about, learning what is real, what is not, by experience.

But, you do not have to be in a relationship with another in order to gain this wisdom, you can BE love in relationship with everyone and everything and thereby decrease any attachment notions to 'being in' and instead just 'be'.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com
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Re: Best way to change deep seated beliefs/attachments.

Postby karmarider » Mon May 28, 2012 10:35 pm

The three most common and most compelling desires are about security (money, safety, future), health (particularly for those with chronic problems like pain, illness, depression) and relationships.

If we consider the desire for relationships, it's usually a strong belief that if I only had the right person in my life, I can handle everything else.

Desires can be confusing. Some people are highly motivated to pursue belief systems like the Law of Attraction and visualization and negotiation-prayer and so on. But in my experience that only leads to further energization of desires and unhappiness.

Anthony de Mello says that the recipe for enlightenment is to give up the attachment to the outcome of desires. But in my experience it doesn't work that way. It's not that the giving up of attachment to particular outcomes leads to awakening. It's the other way around. Awakening leads to the natural effect that we no longer invest heavily in outcome.

It's comes down to being able to let go. Most of us find that difficult to understand and difficult to do, so a framework is sometimes helpful. The Sedona Method (the book) suggests of process where you can allow the desire and release the confusion around it. There's a release method which has been highly effective for me in helping me understand what letting go really is. Byron Katie's "The Work" resonates with some people.

Jayakanth wrote:Hi guys,

Suppose I have a deep seated need. Like if I believe that a relationship with someone will cure all my ego's problems. I feel needy and get hurt when i feel rejected.

In order to change that belief, how do u go about that?
...
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Re: Best way to change deep seated beliefs/attachments.

Postby Jayakanth » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:21 am

I am looking for advice from people who have identified all their inner problems/attachments/compulsions/fears and work on them. I have heard that you have to right them down and start reframing them or something like that.
I don't know what method its called but Id like to hear from people who have done this.

Thanks.
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Re: Best way to change deep seated beliefs/attachments.

Postby rideforever » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:06 am

"I feel needy and get hurt when rejected". This is not a 'spiritual' problem but a problem that most people go through when they are exploring relationships in their teenage years.

Rejection is pain btw, so don't know why you are saying there is no pain.

If you turn it into a spiritual quest you ignore the actual problem, and make a mess of the spiritual journey.

People often try to escape basic emotional/relational issues in this way, but it is just an escape.

I am sure every teenager with a broken heart feels this way. Adults too.

When you talk about 'changing your belief' ... you are basically trying to ignore the pain by holding up some concept about belief. This is just another way to ignore the reality of your pain.

So I would be very wary of starting to think about it. Just feel it.

You have pain inside. It is an energy in you. Just sit down and focus on it. You can begin a meditation watching your breath etc... But then more your awareness onto the pain in the body - or wherever you feel it. You say 'rejection' ... focus on that word, what does it mean, where do you feel it. Don't think about it. Just open yourself fully to the roaring flow of energy. Anything can happen. You might scream, you might cry. It doesn't matter. Just be open. Allow yourself to be changed by the energy.

If you do this you will 'process' the energy. And you will be changed by it. That's all. Same as for anything.

After my mother died I spent months doing this. I sat down, relaxed, then picked some region of the body to become aware of. Soon the pain filled me entirely. It takes some skill to not be lost in the pain - but also to be in direct contact with it. It hurts a lot.

After some time I bought some CDs by a woman called Belleruth Naperstek, that reliably triggers all the pain. This just made it easier to work.

After some months, it is gone and I am changed.
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Re: Best way to change deep seated beliefs/attachments.

Postby rideforever » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:15 pm

There is something very interesting going on here.

If you cut your arm and you go and see a doctor and he gives you some stitches, well in the normal way of speaking you say "the doctor patched me up". But this is not what happened, yes the doctor put a couple of crude bits of string in your flesh to draw your skin together, but it is your own body that is patching you up ... sealing your wound at the molecular level. Something a 'doctor' (butcher) ... cannot do. A 'doctor' is not even close to be able to do this.

Your body is your doctor. It beats your heart for you.

In the same way people walking past a Lamborghini lust after this machine, or they drool over a Pentium Processor. But when they walk past another human being they spit on the floor ! In fact the human body mind is of such incredible incredible intricacy that you can't relate to it and you conclude it is dumb. But it is so far far beyond 'you' in it's power and subtleness.

In the same way people talk of 'changing' their beliefs. As if with the butchery of thought they are going to achieve something within the intricacy of their minds. You can only imagine how Leonardo would have reacted if a fishmonger turned up to 'help out' with painting the Mona Lisa.

Just leave it alone. The bodymind already has all the facility to cleanse itself, without your crude butchery.

The only job is to get out the way of the tremendous beauty of your bodymind, and allow it to function.
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Re: Best way to change deep seated beliefs/attachments.

Postby Jayakanth » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:44 pm

Hi rideforever,

Thanks for your reply. While I do agree with what you are saying, I would like to clarify myself.

After doing introspection, I have realised that I am seeking a relationship to cover up my egoic problems such as lack of approval in my life, to impress others etc..

While feeling needy and getting rejected is not a spiritual problem as you said, my 'problem' is trying to get a relationship to cover up my other problems as expressed above. So i feel 'needy' for a relationship. Rather than wanting a relationship, I am needing a relationship to fulfill myself.

I do practice presence while I am in pain but I would want to look at my underlying motifs for seeking a relationship and working on myself. I think i should not have used the word beliefs as it implies thinking. But labels aside, my aim is to identify my attachments/compulsions/'beliefs' and be PRESENT TO THEM.

Tolle does not talk about this introspective process, but talks about dealing with pain when it comes up. However, he does talk about practicing inner body awareness everyday which would definitely improve ur life. So, as in my other post, I was talking about the best ways to dissolve pain bodies. So In this case, my egoic problems are like the unconscious need to impress others. How can i use presence to transmute them. How can i transmute an unconscious compulsive thought pattern which has not manifested as an emotion yet but is contributing to a false self? I find myself thinking about them quite often and I do my best to be present to them. And my other question related to this is how can we be present to a compulsive thought pattern? I guess the answer would be to continually watch your thoughts all the time?

Thanks.
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Re: Best way to change deep seated beliefs/attachments.

Postby rideforever » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:10 pm

You know the answer to these questions.

What can I give you that will solve your 'problems' - a pizza ? No, you are going to have to sit on the floor and reflect/ meditate on whatever it is. What can I give you ? You must do it.

"my egoic problems such as lack of approval in my life, to impress others etc.."

Hmmm ... now don't you need approval ? Doesn't everybody need approval ? Everybody that is alive anyway. What do you want to stop living ?

Accept what you are. You need approval - then go and do it. Get friends, get a girlfriend etc... Accept it, accept it, accept it.

You see ACCEPTING means ... accepting. It doesn't mean pretending to be Buddha. It means ACCEPTING what you are. What you need. Who you are.

Yes you can go much deeper through these things to reach deep layers of existence and merge with God. But your 'need for approval' is not a problem, it just exists at one layer of your existence - and there are many layers.

Pain is not something special that you have one technique for. Pain is an energy, neediness is an energy, ... just be present to them all in practice and in your daily life.

Is that difficult ? Of course, because there are many ways to hide that are going on within you. But it's easy really - you sense that there is something to be looked at (call it whatever you like, neediness, pain, happiness ... yes look at happiness too) .... then just sit and be present. You see, the fact that you feel something is an arrow to where you need to look - just follow the arrow.

Be patient. Be persistent. Be sensitive. There are many layers of hiding.

If you can, trigger the problem. Maybe when you think of girls you feel this problem arise. So sit in meditation and think of girls for 10 minutes then meditate.

But don't think of girls and pretend to be dead. If you have an erection - then that is telling you what you need. Meditation is not the act of prentending that you don't have a willy. It is the act of accepting you have a willy and that you this and that. That is what accepting means. It doesn't mean pretending to be dead.

Yes, over time skill is developed and you automatically are present to whatever arises - if that is what you want.
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Re: Best way to change deep seated beliefs/attachments.

Postby ashley72 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:23 pm

Jayakanth wrote:I am looking for advice from people who have identified all their inner problems/attachments/compulsions/fears and work on them. I have heard that you have to right them down and start reframing them or something like that.
I don't know what method its called but Id like to hear from people who have done this.

Thanks.


Yes turn it around 180 degrees.

From one perspective things can appear confusing, from another angle things can appear simple.

You could write down the confusing "perspectives" you attend to... and write some alternative simple perspectives that you also attend to.

Then ponder what is it that can turn a belief around? Mind? Thinking? Attention?
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Re: Best way to change deep seated beliefs/attachments.

Postby Yutso » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:23 pm

Pause right now, and recognize what is closer to you then you are to your own self.
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Re: Best way to change deep seated beliefs/attachments.

Postby karmarider » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:57 pm

Jayakanth wrote:I am looking for advice from people who have identified all their inner problems/attachments/compulsions/fears and work on them. I have heard that you have to right them down and start reframing them or something like that.
I don't know what method its called but Id like to hear from people who have done this.

Thanks.


-John Sherman's "looking at the sense of I AM" is well worth looking into.
-I have a release technique on my website which works very well for me and others I've heard from on the site.
-Any awareness technique is useful (awareness meditation like Adyashanti's, observing thoughts, ARO meditation, etc)
-The Sedona Method suggests a release technique which is about letting go of the angst around desires and attachments.

There are other techniques as well which I don't have any experience with but others might: EFT, Byron Katie's The Work, etc
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Re: Best way to change deep seated beliefs/attachments.

Postby DavidB » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:49 pm

Jayakanth, I'm not certain what your question is. I think you might need to reframe your question in way that might make more sense.

So i feel 'needy' for a relationship. Rather than wanting a relationship, I am needing a relationship to fulfill myself.


Eckhart does discuss this human need for a companion. He describes this human condition of being either one sex or the other sex as being more or less only one half of human, a feeling of being incomplete without the other half. The male completes the female and visa versa. These are not Eckhart's exact words. I heard Eckhart speak of this in one of his talks but can't remember which one. Sorry.

You will never feel complete, as there will always be a feeling of incompleteness, it's just the nature of the human condition. The illusion of separation creates this feeling of incompleteness, feelings of loneliness, which can manifest as a needing or longing.

All's we can do in this situation is to simply recognize this aspect of our human nature for what it is, accept it totally, and then not take it personally.

Not sure if this answers any of your questions.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Best way to change deep seated beliefs/attachments.

Postby rideforever » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:40 pm

Karmarider - you are always talking about your website ... is this really the right place to be selling your business ??

Seems pretty cheap to me.
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Re: Best way to change deep seated beliefs/attachments.

Postby goldieflower » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:42 pm

rideforever wrote:Seems pretty cheap to me.



You are correct, sir! It is very cheap. If you would venture over to his website you would discover he gives it all away.

:)
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Re: Best way to change deep seated beliefs/attachments.

Postby ashley72 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:44 pm

rideforever wrote:Karmarider - you are always talking about your website ... is this really the right place to be selling your business ??

Seems pretty cheap to me.


Have you looked at it? I have looked at Karmariders website.... Its a real amazing resource.

He's walked the walk... and knows exactly how to reduce suffering. All this information he's published comes from compassion for others... It has nothing to do with making money.

His release technique which is a simpler version of the Sedona method is extremely effective for anyone suffering from anxiety disorders.

These release techniques really work because they happen now and they don't require analysis by the thinking mind which keeps you stuck in conditioned patterns.

Most people suffering are bottling their emotions and are using avoidance patterns to vainly escape from experiencing life. The only way to enjoy life again is to face emotions and consciously release the unwanted attachment.
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