Tolle Compares The Secret with The Power of Now

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Tolle Compares The Secret with The Power of Now

Postby Rick » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:07 pm

Eckhart Tolle compares The Secret (LoA) with The Power of Now.

Tolle explains how creating from other than a place of Presence is egoic. But, he notes...even egoic creating is part of the play of Consciousness in form.

The Secret vs The Power of Now
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Re: Tolle Compares The Secret with The Power of Now

Postby Webwanderer » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:05 pm

Sometimes I wonder if we are not being too harsh on egos. The implication by many that this or that is egoic seems to suggest that one should not perceive and act as ego. But are egos wrong? Is there value in the ego experience? Egos seem to be natural expressions while in this human existence. Maybe our ego is like training wheels, or paint by numbers, that serve a purpose to an extent, but must eventually be set aside in order to expand our possibilities.

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Re: Tolle Compares The Secret with The Power of Now

Postby rachMiel » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:19 pm

Ego as lifelong imaginary friend? ;-) The trick being that you recognize he/she/it's imaginary. :-)
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Re: Tolle Compares The Secret with The Power of Now

Postby Rick » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:47 am

Webwanderer wrote:Sometimes I wonder if we are not being too harsh on egos. The implication by many that this or that is egoic seems to suggest that one should not perceive and act as ego. But are egos wrong? Is there value in the ego experience? Egos seem to be natural expressions while in this human existence. Maybe our ego is like training wheels, or paint by numbers, that serve a purpose to an extent, but must eventually be set aside in order to expand our possibilities.

WW



I love egos. Some of my best friends are egos :D
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Re: Tolle Compares The Secret with The Power of Now

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:24 am

That's a very wonderful explanation of the nuances of Being and creating in being.

Neale Donald Walsch spoke of his 'experience' with the final product of the Secret (movie). He was in it, but he had a different perspective of what was happening in it, and what resulted - from being interviewed for two hours and something like 73 seconds making it into the movie. The end result seemed to present something totally different to what he had expressed (by the power of the cutting room floor). On his asking it was explained to him that the 'purpose' of the movie was to show people that the power of creation was within them, and he spoke too much in terms of 'god -creation- life energy' being with/in them. His residual 'noticing' is that it's the same thing his perspective 'god' is the creation power that is within us all. But when people start trying to explain things from a 'not this' perspective the two collided incompatibly.

It can be the same (not this perspective) with 'ego'. ET notes in that video that intense 'doing' in awareness and enjoyment it may look like you are stressed, but you are not because you are one with the creative movement in action. When doing is not about 'you' - not about lack or fulfilment, but the organic growth through creative movement in action there is no ego in it. There will be no suffering or disappointments just sheer enjoyment of the doing.

If someone observing 'perceives' the action / doing to be stressful or egoic - again, it is not about the 'doer', that is the perspective of the one observing. Therefore if anyone 'judges' what is egoic - the ego energy is theirs; their thoughts are flowing on the energy of the ego - ET details this in the notion that if 'one' is making an enemy, obstacle or means to an end of a person, thing or situation, that is ego at work.

Creative / conscious doing is acceptance, enjoyment in the moment and enthusiasm as an arrow flying to a target. As he says in that video an intense act of creation.

In this way regardless of the 'now' the intense power of creation is flowing through you. It's neither a burden or complicated, it just is what it is each moment. This is where the notion 'if you can be as happy in your sorrows as your joys, you have the key to life' come into play.

When ego arises you notice its resonance and can respond in creative awareness, because as ET said, ego is part of the all too.
I love egos. Some of my best friends are egos


:D egos have as much to share with us as anything else.
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Re: Tolle Compares The Secret with The Power of Now

Postby ashley72 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:38 am

Is it up to us to initiate creation, or should we simply see what happens?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ky6vgQfU24
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Re: Tolle Compares The Secret with The Power of Now

Postby ashley72 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:02 am

What is life like, without seeking? This question is not meant to be answered. It’s pointing towards a stopping. It’s suggesting that we explore what it’s like to just experience this moment.
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Re: Tolle Compares The Secret with The Power of Now

Postby Rick » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:42 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:
:D egos have as much to share with us as anything else.


This is beyond doubt.

A question however might be, what is the nature of that sharing? Does the sharing promote Presence, or ego?

Tolle is clearly saying that Presence, or its absence, is the criterion in determining what is True Source creation/manisfestation and what is egoic creation/manifestation.

Each has its purpose to be sure. But there is nothing that I have read, or have been pointed to (I've asked several times) the shows me that the LoA as espoused by the Secret or A-H leads anyone to realize the meaning of abiding in, let alone manifesting from, the Now...or Presence.

Tolle says,"ego is...identification with form, which primarily means thought..." He says "realize your essential identity as formless, as an all-pervasive Presence, of Being prior to all forms." In so doing "you realize your true identity as consciousness itself, rather than what consciousness had identified with." "Presence" "the invisible Source of all things" he says "is not a thought. It arises from beyond the mind" and "Once you dis-identify with your thoughts, you will experience a shift to an awareness, in which joy and inner peace will be found"

The LoA folks clearly encourage, as opposed to Tolle, active identification with the "positive" aspects of mind as a way of aligning with what they call source or true inner being. It suggests that aligning with source is found in the deliberate employment of "good" feeling/thoughts which in turn leads to the manifestation of all good things. See "your inner being thinks good-feeling thoughts". A-H, for example, says go deeper into the mind and "practice good feeling/thoughts until they become your baseline." and further says "As you seek those thoughts that feel good, you will always be in vibrational harmony with the energy that is your source. And under those conditions, only good can come to you, and only good can come from you."

Tolle says "“Don’t seek happiness...you won’t find it, because seeking is the antithesis of happiness.” and "all the things that truly matter - beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise from beyond the mind". He says of your true identity: "You are the light of Presence, the awareness that is prior to and deeper than any thoughts and emotions." and finally that "with awareness comes disidentification from thoughts, emotions, and reactions." A far different thing altogether than what the LoA folk point to.

We should be clear in acknowledging that alignment with ego or Presence is the prerogative of Consciousness, to serve whatever greater purpose it may, and as such it behooves us never to judge the trajectory of another.

But we should also be clear in acknowledging that alignment with Presence beyond all thought is one thing, and alignment with mind via involvement with good feelings and positive thoughts is quite another.
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Re: Tolle Compares The Secret with The Power of Now

Postby smiileyjen101 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:19 am

Maybe as Forest Gump says, maybe it's (accepting) both.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFvASiMT ... re=related
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Re: Tolle Compares The Secret with The Power of Now

Postby Webwanderer » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:26 pm

Rick wrote:The LoA folks clearly encourage, as opposed to Tolle, active identification with the "positive" aspects of mind as a way of aligning with what they call source or true inner being. It suggests that aligning with source is found in the deliberate employment of "good" feeling/thoughts which in turn leads to the manifestation of all good things. See "your inner being thinks good-feeling thoughts". A-H, for example, says go deeper into the mind and "practice good feeling/thoughts until they become your baseline." and further says "As you seek those thoughts that feel good, you will always be in vibrational harmony with the energy that is your source. And under those conditions, only good can come to you, and only good can come from you."



Tolle says "“Don’t seek happiness...you won’t find it, because seeking is the antithesis of happiness.” and "all the things that truly matter - beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise from beyond the mind".

From the Eckhart Tolle website:

http://www.eckharttolle.com/article/Awa ... s-Purpose/
SOM: In your vision of a new earth, the purpose of life involves what you call awakened doing. What do you mean by this?

Tolle: Most people treat the present moment as if it were an obstacle that they need to overcome. Since the present moment is Life itself, it is an insane way to live.

In awakened doing there is complete internal alignment with the present moment and whatever you are doing right now. The doing is then not primarily a means to an end, but an opening for consciousness to come into this world. Aligning yourself with the Now is aligning yourself with universal purpose, the purpose of the whole. What is the purpose of the whole? The birth and flowering of consciousness. The whole then guides you in whatever you think or do.

As I explain in A New Earth, awakened doing has three modalities, depending on circumstances and the nature of the activity. They are acceptance, enjoyment, and enthusiasm. If there is neither acceptance, enjoyment, or enthusiasm in what you do, you are out of alignment with universal purpose. You are creating unhappiness, that is to say suffering in one form or another. One way of defining the ego is simply this: a dysfunctional relationship with the present moment. What I refer to as the "new earth"—the outer forms created by awakened doing—arises as more people realize that their purpose is to allow consciousness to emerge through whatever they do.


Is en-joy-ment any different than happiness?

Rick wrote:But we should also be clear in acknowledging that alignment with Presence beyond all thought is one thing, and alignment with mind via involvement with good feelings and positive thoughts is quite another.

Maybe it's only so clear as you suggest in a narrowly defined context. And, "alignment with mind" is not a suggestion in the Abraham teachings. Alignment of mind would be more accurate. Note the significant difference in perspective.

It's obvious from ET's quote above that Tolle recognizes the necessity of positive emotion as a precursor to alignment with Source Energy and/or universal purpose. While in one context it may be distinct, in a greater context it is simply a necessary element toward regaining that alignment.

Which is more likely to create the circumstances for alignment - first becoming clearly present, or first becoming happy - is likely a matter unique to each of us. Either path is available, and there is no need to deny one to find value in the other. Whichever path one is most attracted to leads to the same Source alignment.

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Re: Tolle Compares The Secret with The Power of Now

Postby Rick » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:21 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
And, "alignment with mind" is not a suggestion in the Abraham teachings. Alignment of mind would be more accurate. Note the significant difference in perspective.


Alignment "with" mind. Alignment "of" mind....it all points to seeking identification of self "in" mind. Tolle says who you are is found "beyond" mind. Again, two very, very different things.
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Re: Tolle Compares The Secret with The Power of Now

Postby the key master » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:04 pm

Rick said,
Tolle says,"ego is...identification with form, which primarily means thought..." He says "realize your essential identity as formless, as an all-pervasive Presence, of Being prior to all forms." In so doing "you realize your true identity as consciousness itself, rather than what consciousness had identified with." "Presence" "the invisible Source of all things" he says "is not a thought. It arises from beyond the mind" and "Once you dis-identify with your thoughts, you will experience a shift to an awareness, in which joy and inner peace will be found"


That sounds nice. He seems to have left the part out about you not being the person thang. If we're talking about waking up, any shift which is experienced is done so as an absence only. How can you experience an absence of the one shifting from identification to the absence of that? You can't, because it would imply you are the one shifting, or that there's still mind identification to be addressed. Who wants to live in that hell?

The LoA folks clearly encourage, as opposed to Tolle, active identification with the "positive" aspects of mind as a way of aligning with what they call source or true inner being. It suggests that aligning with source is found in the deliberate employment of "good" feeling/thoughts which in turn leads to the manifestation of all good things. See "your inner being thinks good-feeling thoughts". A-H, for example, says go deeper into the mind and "practice good feeling/thoughts until they become your baseline." and further says "As you seek those thoughts that feel good, you will always be in vibrational harmony with the energy that is your source. And under those conditions, only good can come to you, and only good can come from you."


The idea that there is someone to be in a state of disharmony is the disharmony. Any advice grounded on such a premise is a step by step manual on how to gerbil wheel dressed up as something it isnt. If one is seeking 'good' thoughts and feelings, one is also avoiding 'bad' thoughts and feelings. Furthermore, what is good and bad is a relative matter in constant flux. Anyone who's ever been through a personal tragedy and later looked back, and said, you know, im glad that happened, is expressing that very movement. What was bad magically becomes good. The only thing is it isn't magic. Its simply the imagination of a movement between good and bad polarities. Imagining you need more of one and less of the other is suffering.
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Re: Tolle Compares The Secret with The Power of Now

Postby Webwanderer » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:17 pm

Rick wrote:
Webwanderer wrote:
And, "alignment with mind" is not a suggestion in the Abraham teachings. Alignment of mind would be more accurate. Note the significant difference in perspective.


Alignment "with" mind. Alignment "of" mind....it all points to seeking identification of self "in" mind. Tolle says who you are is found "beyond" mind. Again, two very, very different things.

Not so in my view. I don't think you are seeing the distinction I'm making. 'With mind' is indicative of what you claim - an identification with thought. "Of mind" is an acknowledgement that mind is a recognizable quality within self, within consciousness, within that essence and being that is both beyond and inclusive of mind. The human mind is an attribute that can be tuned to a chosen focus of alignment over an unconscious identification with thought. Tolle is right that who we are is found beyond mind and is exactly what I'm pointing to in making the distinction clear.

The greater point however, is that Tolle's teaching is not in major conflict with Abraham's. If anything there is some uniqueness in context, but so it goes with most teachers. Every one of us is unique in our perspectives and our matters of relevance. It is not surprising that teachings are unique enough to appeal to that uniqueness.

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Re: Tolle Compares The Secret with The Power of Now

Postby Rick » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:58 pm

Webwanderer wrote:The human mind is an attribute that can be tuned to a chosen focus of alignment over an unconscious identification with thought.


OK. Then perhaps you wouldn't mind sharing how the chosen focus of alignment works for you personally? I am curious to know how it is done.

Webwanderer wrote:Tolle is right that who we are is found beyond mind and is exactly what I'm pointing to in making the distinction clear.


And perhaps you could also share how this practice leads to the experience of self beyond mind as well?
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Re: Tolle Compares The Secret with The Power of Now

Postby Webwanderer » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:36 pm

Rick wrote: Webwanderer wrote:The human mind is an attribute that can be tuned to a chosen focus of alignment over an unconscious identification with thought.


OK. Then perhaps you wouldn't mind sharing how the chosen focus of alignment works for you personally? I am curious to know how it is done...

And perhaps you could also share how this practice leads to the experience of self beyond mind as well?

Sure. I would point out however, that I have repeatedly made this case in my posts in this forum, including some of those to you. Your arguments of skepticism are, at least in part, born of those comments.

I now recognize that emotions are indicators of alignment - alignment with Source, True Self, Natural State, etc. Emotions are energetic expressions of the focus of thought, conscious or unconscious (conditioning). They are not bad, not good, not wrong, not right. They are simply the result of the focus of our attention. In that however, they can be pleasant or unpleasant.

By recognizing that my own thinking focus is a key part of whatever painful experiences that come my way, it becomes clear that by intentionally choosing to focus on thoughts that feel better, I can lesson/shorten those painful experiences. By recognizing that the internal dialogs that spin rationals, re-creations and blame etc, are examples of resistance to what is and only contribute to the continuance of the experience that is creating painful emotions.

The message in the pain is that I am far from the alignment, the alignment that brings me joy, that I want. There is nothing quite like the sweet moments in life spent in clear presence awareness, open to the flow of joyful, consciousness expanding life energy. Compared to those moments spent in emotional pain the preference is clear. Through the guidance of Tolle and Abraham and others, as well as some extensive trial and error, I have found the path to alignment. It is an experiential one based far more on feeling than of thought. But thought does indeed play a role.

Thoughts constantly arise through a lifetime of conditioning. That's common to all of us. But it's what we do with those thoughts that matters. Some thoughts are fairly mundane, like wispy clouds passing on a blue sky. Others however, carry more power like large thunder heads shooting out damaging lightning and drenching rains as it dominates and darkens the sky of perspective. They draw our conscious attention as past experience reminds us of how concerning these arising thoughts may be.

But knowing they are just thoughts and/or memories, it's freeing to know they don't have to be part of my present experience, nor of the future - at least in the context that originally created emotional pain. I now know that the emotional content is an indicator of alignment and that clearly tuned alignment is a much preferable experience. So I recognize my participation in the experience and choose to see in a way that brings me a better emotional response. There's no need to lie to myself, just choosing a broader context is usually sufficient to gain freedom from the negativity of the experience. And there is always a broader context than that that creates emotional pain.

This is how I work with emotional pain as it arises. The other side of the coin is to focus attention on the alignment that brings peace and joy to awareness. In that I constantly fuel my consciousness with uplifting experiences - experiences that help create joy and happiness and love and oneness etc etc etc. I understanding that I am not the exclusive creator of such experience. I simply set the stage for it to arise naturally out of clarity and silence - sometimes that silence is through the lens of beauty and appreciation. I engage in whatever inspires me to relax and allow the loving energy of Source to flow through me. As I mentioned in another post, breath work is an effective addition.

Again, thoughts are helpful in creating a focus of attention, but it is through feeling our way to clarity and openness that alignment is regained. I want to say here that we are all always aligned - to a degree. We are one and an extension of the One Life, so how could it not be so. It's more a matter of the quality and clarity of that alignment that makes the difference in our experience.

The experience of self beyond mind is that experience of being aware, alive and present when mind is not active. Rest in the moment, feeling the quality of being without defining in any way. Relax into your feeling nature when in the silent clarity of open awareness. Allow yourself to be a conduit for the flow of your True Nature. Just relax into it and appreciate.

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