On Krishnamurthi : Fragmentation

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Re: On Krishnamurthi : Fragmentation

Post by rachMiel » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:18 pm

Jayakanth wrote:You said , "Or, if you are exploring this anxiety in order to understand it fully (not to "fix" it, just to understand its workings), keep it in focus, inquire into it, feel it ... again (and this is key!) without judgment."

Isnt this what krishnmaurthi warns about? This process of Analysis?
If he does it's hypocritical because his teachings are often in the form of precise analyses.

There is the state of choiceless awareness of "what is" without judgement or thought; and there is the state of rational thinking/analysis. I think his warning was about letting the second state intrude upon the first, i.e. letting thought/analysis take the "choiceless out of choiceless awareness.
Wad abt patterns of fear that arise when they are triggered? If i were to explore them, do i delve into myself and call up the past or do i understand the nature of fear itself?
From Krishnamurti's teachings, I'd say: both. When fear arises, you let it arise, feel it, watch it live out its fear-ful life, be aware of it choicelessly, without judgement. (Very hard at first, but it gets easier.) At another time you "step out of choiceless awareness" and think/analyze, dig into your psychological past, figure things out rationally. It's like theory and practice, you need both to come to a deep understanding.


Questioner: I find it impossible to be aware all the time.

Krishnamurti: Don't be aware all the time! Just be aware in little bits. Please, there is no being aware all the time, that is a dreadful idea! It is a nightmare, this terrible desire for continuity. Just be aware for one minute, for one second, and in that one second of awareness you can see the whole universe.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: On Krishnamurthi : Fragmentation

Post by Jayakanth » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:59 pm

Today i was at a small social gathering. I didnt know most of the people there. In that situation, I wasnt my self. I was self-conscious and grew fearful when we were supposed to play a game. It was a simple game on hindsight, but due to a memory i had, i felt very anxious. I was afraid that i would not be able to understand how to play the game properly.
I felt myself unable to focus, wonderign whether i made a good move on my turn.

In this case, fear arose. But i wasnt alert enought to observe it.
My brain ha recorded this experience.

So wad do i do now? Dig into it?


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Re: On Krishnamurthi : Fragmentation

Post by lakeswimr » Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:58 pm

When you ask what to do now do you mean if you are in a similar situation again where you become self conscious? I think what you did was very good--you observed your discomfort and were conscious of it. I think you can continue to do this in any future experiences you may have like that. I like to observe the thoughts I'm having. Thoughts are always the cause of what I'm experiencing. I also observe my feelings and where I feel these feelings in my body. And these things makes me feel much more present. Sometimes the feelings just vanish or at least shrink when I start watching them. I let them be there instead of try to make them go away.

I think it is possible that this is a quote of Krishnamurthi that is out of context and that he might not have recommended in all situations (shrug).

Personally I like Byron Katie's 'The Work' and think it is very practical. ET recommended it, too. You may like her stuff if you haven't tried it yet. you can google her and learn how to do 'the work' online if you don't know already. Basically you question your thoughts and see they are not true. Once you do this you realize upset feelings are from a thought that isn't true. So, in that sense rather than investigating each and every negative feeling I have, knowing that they all come from untrue thoughts I believe at the time is very helpful. I wonder if that might be part of what Krishnamurthi meant.

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Re: On Krishnamurthi : Fragmentation

Post by magicbutterfly » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:40 pm

Most of us try to avoid fearful situations but that only increases the fear. Do what you fear - on purpose seek out situations where you experience fear. Use them for your spiritual practice. Ask a friend to text you at 10 am for example and then pay attention to your body and mind as 9:30 arrives and then 9:45 and then 9:55. Make it into a game. Invite friends over to play the game that caused you stress and anxiety. Again, watch your body and your mind as you prepare for the evening and during the game. Good luck.
"As soon as you honor the present moment, all unhappiness and struggle dissolve, and life begins to flow with joy and ease." Ekhart Tolle, The Power of Now

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