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How come some unconcious people can be happy?

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:27 pm
by Heisenberg
In my environment I know there are a lot of people who are not into spirituality or presence at all. They are pretty much just taken up by their minds, life and social life. But they seem just happy. Very egoic as in, looking for social approval, playing the game, seeing flaws in others, gossipping, but happy.
Just as I was before I got into presence. However I was deeply unhappy and depressed.

Thinking about this, how can these people identified with ego be so succesful and happy, for a while strongly made me egoic and doubtful about the teachings. I felt like presence and awareness that Tolle talks about is rubbish because all these other people seem to be doing fine without it. I started comparing and thinking there is something wrong with me. Mind you this was a few months after I got into Tolle. Maybe I didn't fully grasp the teaching yet.

Still the question somewhat remains: Is it that these people have more ability to tap into presence unknowingly? Do they have less resistance levels or a smaller pain body, thus they can be happier?

Thank you.

Re: How come some unconcious people can be happy?

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:58 pm
by rideforever
No, there is no secret for these people. They are just insensitive to their own suffering. There is nobody home, and nobody to be feel pain.

For you there is no problem in understanding your situation : you can experiment trying to be like them ... and if it doesn't work then you must try something else. It's just that simple.

But our brainwashing has been going on for a very long time, and it is hard to wake up.

If you feel pain - it behoves you to do something about it - it is a message to change.

And instead of wondering what and why, you can just go directly into the source of the discomfort and confront the pain directly through awareness.

What is bothering me ? "I haven't go this" "I am not that" ... then just face it in meditation ... watch it ... watch it ... accept it

This is solving the problem. The other alternative is daydreaming. What else ?

Waking up is to recognise the situation you are in firstly, and then to act.

Re: How come some unconcious people can be happy?

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:08 pm
by ashley72
Heisenberg,

Interesting name... you don't hear that name often. Is your chosen username a mere pseudonym to the physicist Werner Heisenberg and his uncertainty principle?

We used to have a regular contributor on here going by the pseudonym "Snowheight" (real name Bill), who often cited "the Uncertainty Principle" in his ramblings.

Not to worry if its not... More a curiosity than anything. :D

Anyway, in regards to your post.... What do you think presence is?

For example if I was talking to you in a conversation and rather than listening to my conservation about quantum physics, you started thinking "why does he seem more happy than me"... Is that being present to the conversation or mind wandering?

I say it's mind wandering... And it occurs because your "attentional" focus is easily distracted by disruptive thoughts.

Unfortunately, this is our default mode of operation. Our minds tend to wander when not doing attentive tasks. Unfortunately this kind of mind wandering if primarily negative... can lead to unhappiness.

The purpose of Meditation practices is to prevent our mind wandering (attention straying). Some meditation practices focus on Top-Down attention which is exclusive, voluntary & concentrative in nature. Another type of meditation practices focus on Bottom-Up attention which is receptive, involuntary & inclusive in nature.

Eckhart Tolle's meditation practices is a kind of hybrid of the two. He asks you to practice attending to the "stillness". Which is voluntary but not to the exclusion of other things, so it's also receptive. Because its receptive it doesn't prevent mind wandering so some meditators can find themselves even more distracted than usual. Which may not be helpful to being more present. But can be helpful in making you realise that the voluntary aspect of our nature is attentive not thinking.

Try and find out what aspect of a disruptive thought is voluntary? In other words is it the thought which is the voluntary component or is it the attentional focus which is voluntary?

Following the breath may be a slightly better practice because the constant presence of the breath helps guide your attention back from a wandering mind.

The practice I use is an attention training exercise where a guided meditator asks me to shift my attention from one object to the next whilst at the same time constantly reminding me "to ignore or resist the other objects" which may scatter my attentional focus.

Exercise => http://youtu.be/OtYYcWJcZas

If you suffer from mind wandering and disruptive thinking... This type of attention training will be extremely helpful in overcoming those habits.

What does the science say on the topic:

http://psychology.sas.upenn.edu/system/ ... rBaime.pdf
"One speculation is that the practice of meditation for even short durations could be altering the default functioning of these attentional systems by modifying their internal dynamics"

Re: How come some unconcious people can be happy?

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:32 pm
by karmarider
Heisenberg wrote:Still the question somewhat remains: Is it that these people have more ability to tap into presence unknowingly? Do they have less resistance levels or a smaller pain body, thus they can be happier?
It seems to me that the people who you describe as happy might be happy with their particular circumstances; and their seeming happiness might vary with the waves of circumstance. Perhaps they are insensitive or in denial of their resistance.

It is also completely plausible to me that there are people who have shed their fear more than others have or were never afflicted by it in the first place, and these people are fully connected to their lives without ever needing to hear about presence or spirituality.

A futher question is whether those of us who have discovered spirituality and are tapping into presence, as you call it--are we are truly moving towards a more satisfying experience of being human? Or is the exercise of spirituality still just another form of the resistance?

Re: How come some unconcious people can be happy?

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:17 am
by rachMiel
Don't forget to factor in brain chemistry. It can affect mood dramatically, predispose a person to feel -- for no "good reason" -- happy or unhappy. One of the perks of presence (mindfulness, awareness, etc.) is that it makes you less dependent on the whims of your brain chemistry. It's like an anti-neurotic. ;-)

Re: How come some unconcious people can be happy?

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:44 am
by AlohaFriends
It may not be clear whether they derive their ‘happiness’ from those egoic activities or they are happy in their background to begin with and just come out to the street ‘socializing’ for some ‘fun’…….If the former is the case, then their happiness is likely to be shallow and fades quickly.

Besides, I remember one of ET’s statements is “ The word happiness is a very shallow thing”.

It’s the deep-rooted serenity and self confidence at the core are what make one truly ‘happy’. Those smiling faces on the surface doesn't necessarily mean they are happy.

Re: How come some unconcious people can be happy?

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:12 pm
by Marcel Franke
I dont know how to measure happiness.
I suppose, a ray of happiness shines thru, once or twice, in most lives.

Re: How come some unconcious people can be happy?

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:35 pm
by rachMiel
Could one say that the deepest/purest form of happiness is unconditional happiness?

"Be like a lamp unto Yourself."

My guess is that most happy people are conditionally happy: Weekend's coming, just met a new romantic interest, raise in salary approved. If a key condition changes "for the worse," the happiness can disappear like magic.

Re: How come some unconcious people can be happy?

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:42 pm
by Marcel Franke
> Could one say that the deepest/purest form of happiness is unconditional happiness?

Perhaps we have come to believe it is conditional ?

Re: How come some unconcious people can be happy?

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:10 pm
by rachMiel
Is happiness our "natural" state? Or is just another one of the 10,000 things that come and go, come and go ... ?

Re: How come some unconcious people can be happy?

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:30 pm
by Marcel Franke
Perhaps kind of both.

Re: How come some unconcious people can be happy?

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:07 pm
by rachMiel
Marcel, you're a very "perhaps" kind of guy, yes?

I like that. It's refreshing in a world where most people are so sure of what they (think they) know. :-)

Re: How come some unconcious people can be happy?

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:16 pm
by Marcel Franke
rachMiel wrote:Marcel, you're a very "perhaps" kind of guy, yes?
Undoubtedly.

Re: How come some unconcious people can be happy?

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:16 pm
by rachMiel
;-)

Re: How come some unconcious people can be happy?

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:53 am
by jimmyrich
Heisenberg wrote:In my environment I know there are a lot of people who are not into spirituality or presence at all. They are pretty much just taken up by their minds, life and social life. But they seem just happy. Very egoic as in, looking for social approval, playing the game, seeing flaws in others, gossipping, but happy.
>>When I first got into therapy and support groups, I came to believe that everyone needs that kind of teaching and help since they were obviously lost in Denial & Delusion but after a while I accepted that most people are not going to go for therapy because they are either happy with or resigned to their IGNORANT lives. We called them "Normies" and I began to notice that a lot of these Normies were not really as "happy" as they pretended to be but were just getting by with their crumby lives due to a fear of addressing their issues and changing things. So, over the years I have accepted that, if someone is "happy" with their life, why change anything? Isn't happiness a universal desire or goal of everyone? Also, I could see that what makes me happy may not be the same as what makes others happy no matter how weird their "happiness" seems.

re: Still the question somewhat remains: Is it that these people have more ability to tap into presence unknowingly? Do they have less resistance levels or a smaller pain body, thus they can be happier?
>>> All of that, none of it or something else entirely. Happiness comes in many forms so I just focus on what makes me happy and let everybody else go their own way. What else can we do? :)