Wisdom needed

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Wisdom needed

Postby Scouser » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:19 pm

I would like to have a better understanding as to why I can't earn a living doing what I love most ?

I have read many wise things on these forums so I thought I would turn to you for assitance.

I have read many books on related subjects, some have proved helpful, whilst others have been mumbo jumbo..

I have been a gardener on and off for 20 years, by that, I mean, that has paid the bills.. Although I am grateful for having a job and enjoy being in nature, I feel my true vocation is in music which I did professionally, as a performer for 6 years.

Although it was fantastic being paid for what I truly love, I found after a we got so busy I saw very little of my family, so I wrapped it up, as I felt it was more important to watch my family grow, so I went back to the gardening. I have tried to learn from this experience what got me into a position were I was earning a living doing what I loved. The only thing that I can come up with was "action" I made the effort to put out an advertisement looking to collaborate. That was the seed if you like, from there maybe chance/destiny/luck whatever yo ulike to call it took over, I prefer to call it work or action.

What I have always wanted to do though is make a living composing/writing songs etc. I have always done this, in my spare time, but over the last 5 years, I have been spending more and more time on it. I feel like I have put more effort and time into this, but not had the desired results ie a paycheck.. I believe this is something that i have a talent for and will always do it, for the love of it. But more importantly it would be good for myself and perhaps others to have advice on how to do something you love "for a living" rather than in our spare time. There are many many people I know who are doing jobs they dislike and would love to be doing something that is closer to their heart. I doubt there are any answers to this but even your thoughts would be welcome
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Re: Wisdom needed

Postby rideforever » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:43 pm

You don't actually want an understanding of WHY NOT do you ?

I think you really want to know how to MAKE IT HAPPEN right ?

Law of Attraction. Meaning start acting like you are composer in every single way. Give it absolutely everything. Write and write until your hands bleed, start doing performances, pray to god for deliverance, think like a composer, have no doubts ... I am one. And be one. And be great. Don't be a cr*p composer. Say : I am as good as Mozart, and I don't sleep anymore because I love what I do. Love it, love it, be it, live it. I don't have time to sleep.
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Re: Wisdom needed

Postby Scouser » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:55 pm

I can see where you are coming from totally, and this is to some degree the attitude I have towards my music, you also re enforce my belief that it is nothing more than hardwork & love. Although it does make me wonder, I have never had that attitude towards gardening yet it's something that I have spent a large part of my life doing, I haven't wished it, breathed it, desired it ?
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Re: Wisdom needed

Postby rideforever » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:28 pm

What about praying ? Make the whole thing like a prayer ?

Just, you know, have no regrets that there was some piece of love you didn't give. Love ... it's like you know when you ... are trying to get water to flow in a hose ... you have to sort of suck on end ... and then it flows. -yeah nice analogy- ! It's like you gotta do the love thing your end, and then it all flows into you.

See, all these bits of garden equipment have deep significance. Remember that when you are raking the lawn or whatever !

Also, don't be the sort of mouse-shed-composer who is never expecting to be heard by anyone other than the garden plants ... act like Mo-zart. Wear a funny hat or whatever.

Anyway, more love, more prayer, more shagging ... oh maybe that's something else ... or maybe not, don't know. Get really shaggadelic with the music. Then you'll be in heaven anyway !

Also, you know love is like a box of chocolates, you never know when you are gonna get, but if you plant enough seeds some of them will turn into angels.

Wow, that's 3 metaphors in one sentence !
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Re: Wisdom needed

Postby Scouser » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:32 pm

Are there many people here who are earning a living by doing what they love ?
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Re: Wisdom needed

Postby Typist » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:37 pm

Scouser wrote:Are there many people here who are earning a living by doing what they love ?


I've had periods of it.

Be careful what you ask for, because once you have this experience of earning by doing what you love, that will become the standard you'll measure everything against the rest of your life. Just saying, here's another part of the price tag...

I could relate to your story, as I once had dreams of being an employed musician too. It turned out differently than I expected.

After years of playing, I finally was able to build a home recording studio. This was over 20 years ago, when recording was much more complicated and expensive than it is now.

I bought each piece of the studio one at a time on a meager salary. I finally got all the pieces in place, and decided the only other thing I needed was a computer.

When I bought the computer (about 1993) the guy asked if I wanted a modem too. What's a modem I asked? :-) I didn't understand his explanation really, but I bought the modem anyway, just as an after thought.

Once I plugged the computer and modem in to the then very primitive net, my whole game plan of 20 years in the making began to change. Something funny happened. I found my real calling.

I went on to create a net start up, sold it a few years later for significant dollars, and most importantly, loved the whole experience more than anything I'd ever done, while making more than I'd ever made before.

Moral Of The Story: Keep an eye out for unexpected opportunities, which may turn out to be bigger and better than anything you could plan for.

Good luck!
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Re: Wisdom needed

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:02 am

Wisdom ... is knowledge gained in experience, and implemented in love. Traci Harding


Scouser, you're combining two things, doing what I love + making a living

and no two things can combine without compromise, or movement on one side or both.

So then it comes down to what you are and are not willing to compromise on. This requires a deeper understanding of your own value hierarchy, (pleasure triggers and pain threshold) for this I would recommend some of Anthony Robbins know yourself sort of exercises.

One could sit on a blanket on a street corner and write music to their heart's content, rely on the goodwill of passing folks to throw pennies in a hat, charities to feed and clothe in a manner of no real preference - purist music first!! If one had a family the family members would likely find their own value hierarchy. :wink:

Once you add the other side of it - earning money - then many more compromises get factored in.
How much do you want to earn?
What would you trade or change in your music for money?
How many hours are you prepared to spend doing it?
Can you do it on your own or do you need a sponsor?
How much will a sponsor's values impact on your creativity?

What's your purpose?
- if it's just creating music for its own sake, then it matters not if it has any commercial value at all.
If its doing something with commercial value then it's really about the 'business' rather than the 'music' isn't it?

The gardening doesn't sound like such a bad gig for earning income leaving you free time to devote to your music unadulterated by commercial considerations.... :?:

Are there many people here who are earning a living by doing what they love?

Are many people here loving what they live?

No matter how I've been earning a living I've loved it, that is I have been alive with gratitude and generosity.

When I've stopped loving it, I've stopped doing it.


Quite simple really. :wink:

What you 'do' does not define you.
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Re: Wisdom needed

Postby erict » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:26 am

Typist wrote:Moral Of The Story: Keep an eye out for unexpected opportunities, which may turn out to be bigger and better than anything you could plan for.


Typist, I loved the little story you shared. It's been a recurring theme for me as well, the egoic planning vs the natural currents of life.
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Re: Wisdom needed

Postby erict » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:41 am

Scouser, generally, I feel that it is an inner shift, that eventually results in a significant change on the external level of your life circumstances (such as the change you are after).

I've picked up some principles that I feel have been very helpful in making the type of shifts you are talking about from the teachings of Abraham Hicks.

For example:
- Effort and hard work are not the main elements of success. It's so obvious if you think about it for a moment. So many people are struggling, working so hard, and making little or no real progress. Those who struggle mostly keep struggling. And there are many people succeeding without struggle and hard work, so obviously, it is something else.
- Make a shift from trying to micro-manage the exact way you will reach your goal, to managing your inner state, and letting larger forces to play a more dominant part.

And many, many more principles, which helped me approach things differently, and I feel have led me, eventually, closer to some of the things I was after.
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Re: Wisdom needed

Postby Scouser » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:57 pm

What's your purpose?
- if it's just creating music for its own sake, then it matters not if it has any commercial value at all.
If its doing something with commercial value then it's really about the 'business' rather than the 'music' isn't it?


Yea I was looking to do it on a commercial basis as well as for it's own sake, presumably one can do both. It just changes the game plan a little..
It is about the music just as much as the business side, after all if you want business you need a product of a reasonable standard..

"Are there many people here who are earning a living by doing what they love & Are many people here loving what they live" Isn't that the same kind of thing ? taking the earning out of the equation..

No matter how I've been earning a living I've loved it, that is I have been alive with gratitude and generosity.

When I've stopped loving it, I've stopped doing it.


Same here :)

I've picked up some principles that I feel have been very helpful in making the type of shifts you are talking about from the teachings of Abraham Hicks.

For example:
- Effort and hard work are not the main elements of success. It's so obvious if you think about it for a moment. So many people are struggling, working so hard, and making little or no real progress. Those who struggle mostly keep struggling. And there are many people succeeding without struggle and hard work, so obviously, it is something else.
- Make a shift from trying to micro-manage the exact way you will reach your goal, to managing your inner state, and letting larger forces to play a more dominant part.

And many, many more principles, which helped me approach things differently, and I feel have led me, eventually, closer to some of the things I was after.


I will look into Abraham Hicks, although I must say Im getting a little tired of reading self help books, I mean how did people get by, before all these people arrived, there are only so many hours in a day. I realise this is the perfect ammunition for people to say, "this is why things are not working out for you" etc etc, but I have read and perhaps more importantly lived some of the ideas, and think that there is plenty to be gained by looking deeper at ourselves.. On the same hand many of these people seem to get more distant the richer they get. Anyway I don't mean to sound all bitter and twisted :)

I think effort and hard work are just as important as any other elements. I can only speak about the people I know and myself and it seems to me it has been action and work, I will refrain from saying hard work as it implies it is not pleasurable. On the other hand I don't know of anyone who has succeeded by waiting for the "law of attraction" to bring it about, although i'm sure there are many many testaments to the contrary, as I say just my personal experience. Having said all of this I understand that it's not all about doing. Being in the right place personally is very important also, as they say "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear" etc etc

This little quotation by Goethe is a favourite

“Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back. Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth, the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then Providence moves too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamed would have come his way. Whatever you can do, or dream you can do, begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Begin it now.”
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Re: Wisdom needed

Postby erict » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:40 pm

Scouser wrote:I think effort and hard work are just as important as any other elements. I can only speak about the people I know and myself and it seems to me it has been action and work, I will refrain from saying hard work as it implies it is not pleasurable. On the other hand I don't know of anyone who has succeeded by waiting for the "law of attraction" to bring it about, although i'm sure there are many many testaments to the contrary, as I say just my personal experience. Having said all of this I understand that it's not all about doing. Being in the right place personally is very important also, as they say "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear" etc etc


I haven't said, nor implied, anything about lack of action. But hard work and effort, in my experience are definitely not the way to achieve anything you really truly want.

I'll elaborate a bit just from my own personal experience. When I look back at my life, I can clearly see two different patterns playing out.
The first, is when under external influence (family, society, etc.) or internal egoic motivations or planning, I will set a goal, plot a course to reach it, and then work hard and struggle to achieve it. This rarely led anywhere.

The second pattern is one that feels a lot more natural and organic. I would simply be drawn to do something, without necessarily seeing whether, or how it would benefit me in the future. It would be interesting, captivating, engrossing, exciting, and I would find myself spending hours upon hours learning something or working on something.
There was definitely a lot of action, and for somebody else it might have been hard work, but for me it was anything but. There was no struggle, and I didn't need to force myself.

So this is something that Abraham Hicks teachings have brought into much greater focus and clarity for me. Hard work and struggle may get you some kind of results, but it is far, far from being the key, or even the optimal way to move toward what you want.
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Re: Wisdom needed

Postby Typist » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:56 pm

Scouser, you're doing a good bit of typing here, and perhaps on other sites as well.

If you were typing on your site instead of here, you could run Adense ads over your content, make a little money, and actually advance your goals, instead of just talking about your goals.

Adsense is definitely not a miracle cure, and it would take years to make a full time living at it, unless one is a committed experienced pro.

But the mindset I'm pointing to here is a miracle cure of sorts.

Everybody on earth wants to make a good living doing what they love, the competition is fierce. The price tag for being a winner is this competition is a relentless focus on moving forward, a practical mindset, rolling up of the sleeves, getting down to work, and maximizing every opportunity that presents itself.

You're wasting your time asking us for our advice.

You could be making money right now by doing all this typing on your own site on this very topic. Lots and lots of people share this interest. Even if all you have to share for now is questions, it's an income opportunity.

See my sig for further details... :-)
If the things we want to hear could take us where we want to go, we'd already be there.
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Re: Wisdom needed

Postby Scouser » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:55 pm

I'll elaborate a bit just from my own personal experience. When I look back at my life, I can clearly see two different patterns playing out.
The first, is when under external influence (family, society, etc.) or internal egoic motivations or planning, I will set a goal, plot a course to reach it, and then work hard and struggle to achieve it. This rarely led anywhere.

The second pattern is one that feels a lot more natural and organic. I would simply be drawn to do something, without necessarily seeing whether, or how it would benefit me in the future. It would be interesting, captivating, engrossing, exciting, and I would find myself spending hours upon hours learning something or working on something.
There was definitely a lot of action, and for somebody else it might have been hard work, but for me it was anything but. There was no struggle, and I didn't need to force myself.


Erict, I think we are on the same page to be honest ...

It seems it is words that are confusing the issue, "hard work & action" it seems that both your examples only differ slightly, that is to say you "acted" in both cases, but you were drawn to do them for different reasons. It seems that in your second example you were drawn to it, whereas in your first, it came from outside yourself..
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Re: Wisdom needed

Postby Scouser » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:16 pm

Scouser, you're doing a good bit of typing here, and perhaps on other sites as well.

If you were typing on your site instead of here, you could run Adense ads over your content, make a little money, and actually advance your goals, instead of just talking about your goals.

Adsense is definitely not a miracle cure, and it would take years to make a full time living at it, unless one is a committed experienced pro.

But the mindset I'm pointing to here is a miracle cure of sorts.

Everybody on earth wants to make a good living doing what they love, the competition is fierce. The price tag for being a winner is this competition is a relentless focus on moving forward, a practical mindset, rolling up of the sleeves, getting down to work, and maximizing every opportunity that presents itself.

You're wasting your time asking us for our advice.

You could be making money right now by doing all this typing on your own site on this very topic. Lots and lots of people share this interest. Even if all you have to share for now is questions, it's an income opportunity.

See my sig for further details... :-)


Hi Typist,

I hear you loud and clear..

Although I am open to new ideas, im not sure the reality is quite so simple.. Presumably one would need to learn how to put a web site together, promote that web site, etc etc
Then one has to ask how long will alll this take me to do, will it be cost effective ? Or is my time better devoted to my music or other things ? I don't know enough to say, one way or the other. You will have a far better idea than myself..
I spend the majority of my time creating and very little of it talking to be honest, but I appreciate all the feedback I get, so keep it coming :)
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Re: Wisdom needed

Postby Typist » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:44 am

Scouser wrote:Although I am open to new ideas, im not sure the reality is quite so simple.. Presumably one would need to learn how to put a web site together, promote that web site, etc etc
Then one has to ask how long will alll this take me to do, will it be cost effective ?


I hear you Scouser. I really wasn't selling web publishing so much as I was a mindset.

Sorry for the lecture. I've been self employed for 30 years, so I am almost pathologically obsessed by such things, particularly the psychological element which is so central to self employment survival.

Speaking of web publishing, it's an opportunity that's probably best suited to blowhards like myself who never met a word they didn't want to type. If you find that people tend to reply to your posts with expressions like "blah, blah, blah, blah" then you might be a good candidate for a web publishing career! :D

The technical and marketing hurdles aren't the really the obstacles, but rather the issue of whether one has a topic that one can't wait to write about every day. Nothing is for everybody, and this is no different.
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