Tolle has made things worse

Talk about anything Tolle-related here.
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Tolle has made things worse

Post by fnktrry » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:12 pm

I used to be like this:

Perception -> Judgement -> Integration with Narrative of Self

Now I'm like this:

Perception -> Judgement -> Doubling back: "That's the Egoic mind" -> Tollic Judgement (be in a state of presence etc.) -> Integration with Narrative (I'm practising the Now and not identifying with my judgement)

Even if you notice how your ego is reacting, there is the thought 'my ego is reacting to this situation and this is how it relates to Eckhart's teachings...'

Which is an extra thought on top of our everyday thoughts.......aaargh!

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Post by kiki » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:34 pm

Becoming aware of egoic judgment is a step toward awakening. Prior to this it was done as a conditioned reaction, which is a definition of being "unconscious". In the moment of seeing that you are getting caught in ego you have become free of it. What often happens then is that a story kicks in about it and thought stream comes back which is identified with once more.

Waking up doesn't necessitate the elimination of thought or ego. It is simply the discovery that you are not the generator of thought, that you are not the ego. Even when awake thoughts will come (there will probably be fewer of them) but there is no longer a tendency to identify with them. When you see that they aren't "yours" it is easy to let them be - you will find that thought stream peters out on its own when left alone. To fight against them is to energize them and keep them in place, which keeps a story going on about them.

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Post by fnktrry » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:47 pm

I don't understand any of this. I'm such a fake. What have I been doing?

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Post by kiki » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:46 pm

The usual approach to all of this is to complicate it by overthinking it, and thinking about it just tends to create confusion and frustration, as you are discovering. Find a portal that you are comfortable with and use it regularly.

Or use self-inquiry by asking "Who am I?" and look. Any answer that the mind comes up with is just thought/idea, so that isn't the answer - there is no answer in the mind. At some point the mind may get tired of all of it and give up - at the point of giving up the answer presents itself because the mind is no longer searching.

When the mind isn't searching, seeking, judging, or labeling anything it becomes quiet - that quiet is concsiousness itself; that's what you are. That quiet is "knowingness"/consciousness. When the ego or mind isn't here there is still the "knowing" that YOU are, that there is existence. That sense of existence is YOU/consciousness freed from being bound by ego or mind. Therefore, what you actually are cannot be the ego or mind because they aren't always here. But that sense of existence is here. You know that you exist - nobody has to tell you that because it is obvious. Even when you are frustrated and confused you know that you exist.

Right now that "knowingness" is shining brightly on the activity of the mind - because of that consiousness there is the "knowing" of the frustration. And right now there is identification with the frustration and confusion - there is the "knowing" of frustration and confusion because consciousness is illuminating it along with the ego which thinks it is frustrated. But the consciousness itself is free of frustration and confusion - it is the identification with frustration that seems to veil consciousness.

You may want to look at how some others talk about this. I happen to like Adyashanti and Gangaji very much. Both have websites with audio files that you can listen to as well as things to read. Or perhaps Sailor Bob or John Wheeler will resonate more. Their approach is about as direct as it can be made. Byron Katie is also very good, but her approach is a little different.

Here is another site which you may find helpful, and which points out the simplicity of all of this:

Right now there is great struggle going on for you, and it can be said that this struggle is the death struggle of the ego. Ego doesn't want to let go because it fears its demise, so it cleverly strategizes ways to avoid relinquishing its life because it believes that IT is who you are. It believes that the answer to its problems is to wake up so it goes on a journey to awaken, but the problem it faces is that it doesn't believe that it will still exist when you awaken, and this causes great fear. So it has put itself in a very clever position to control your life: the journey it has set forth on, if pursued relentlessly, will guarantee its existence.

But it will be here, only it will no longer be identified with. Once it sees this the struggle begins to dissolve as identity with it is broken. It will still resurface but only in a capacity that enables you to negotiate living in the world. It no longer will be the source of frustration, confusion, and suffering. In this there is a great sense of freedom.
Last edited by kiki on Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Blenderhead » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:03 pm

Thanks, Kiki. Wonderful read! :)

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Post by anton » Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:08 pm

seening is freeing...

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Post by mccpcorn » Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:04 pm

I wouldn't think about it too much if I were you. ;)

Seriously realisation and thought are two different processes. I recognise a tree before I think 'tree'. What is happening with yourself is that at the moment of realisation of the egoic mind you begin to think about it, instead of just stopping there and then.

I do that myself. I realise I am thinking, and the though stops, but then I analyse the thought and the process with a new thought process. Thankfully I also realise that, and can happily leave it alone to amuse itself whilst I carry on with the important job of being in the Now. :)

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Post by now-here » Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:20 am

I have to disagree that Eckhart has "made things worse". As a student of spirituality for over 25 years I consider "his" teachings to be the most succint, direct, and honest. If you haven't acquired any of his audio programs I really recommend doing so. Practicing The Power Of Now for its brevity, Living A Life Of Inner Peace for its warmth and humour, and OF COURSE, The Power Of Now. I no longer see a man in my minds eye as he speaks, but a wise old cat. If a cat COULD talk with wisdom, he would sound like Eckhart!
How I wish that the Power Of Now was available 10 years ago when I was going through the painful loss of a "close" relationship. The joy of discovering for just HOW LONG I had been giving "my power" away to PEOPLE and circumstances....totally UNCONSCIOUS was I of this, and how deeply entrenched my views were. Not only feeling worthless because my girlfriend was leaving me, feeling doubly worthless that "my love" was not a sufficient elixir to heal the situation.......
For me, Eckhart has become a friend, teacher, a "signpost".

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Post by Lmosrie » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:54 pm

I can see what frnktrry means when he says Tolle has made things worse....but it's only for the short while it takes to just relax into being. I, too, felt that kind of frustration when I first began watching my mind, but as clock time passed, it melted away into something softer and more translucent (does that make sense???). In fact, it took several months of clock time for the frustration to finally give way....for my ego to surrender a little. It has not fully surrendered, but it's definitely lighter. When you feel the frustration, just stop for a second and know that's just the mind talking. Then laugh at it if you can. Watch your breath. Relax your shoulders and your jaw. Pretend you're exhaling your breath through the bottoms of your feet. Surrender. Surrender. Surrender.....

Now-Here, I totally get what you mean when you say Tolle is a cat! LOL. And, yes, for me, Tolle's work has been a life raft in a stormy sea.

"I don't want to get to the end of my life and find that I have just lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as well."
-- Diane Ackerman

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Post by Egoicmidget » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:54 pm

So much honesty here, abiding in awarenss after living a life of conditioned learnings is an adjustment. I have found seeking and searching to be the antithesis of what has been available always present.
I was looking for the complexity and overlooked the utter simplicity of Tolles' guiding pointers.
I have always been here and aware I just got swept up in the chaos of the ever searching concluding mind stream and false self, that alone kept me locked in "seeking" more, until I dropped the desire to know and realized I just am.
The powerful delusion of self kept me far away from awakening out of the mind stream, I had the "sad tale" and painbody and it's powerful emotions which enhanced and made the false self seem and feel even more real.
I never knew you could simply watch the false self because I believed I was that.
I love coming here and sharing with this group as we all grow in presence.
My cat is watching through it's presence as I type these words, in it's typical silent aware state.

Last edited by Egoicmidget on Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by eseward » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:09 pm

Wonderful thread, folks. Thanks much for a good read.

Best regards.

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Post by kiki » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:22 pm

Great post, Egoicmidget - you have summed up nicely the dilemma and the way out of it.

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Post by enlighten » Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:16 pm

cool :)

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Post by Empty » Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:01 pm

This practice is not about doing anything in particular.
Its about doing it manually instead of automatically.
Its about being aware and being in control.
Controlling the Ego instead of it controlling you.

fnktrry - If your not ready yet, it wont make sense to you, when you are ready, your teacher will arrive.

All Is Now
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Post by All Is Now » Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:06 pm

When the Pupil is ready the Master appears.

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