Experiences with DMT?

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Experiences with DMT?

Postby flick » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:20 pm

I've heard about DMT producing lasting changes in people. However, it seems the consensus on this forum is that drugs might be helpful but are generally inferior to meditative practices (less side effects, more control, etc.).

What were your experiences with DMT like? Did they have lasting effects on your spirituality, including accelerating your loss of attachment to the self?

Please, only people who have taken DMT answer these questions.
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Re: Experiences with DMT?

Postby EternalPrize » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:01 pm

I took it orally, kind of in an ayahuasca-ish form. I thought it was unbelievable. I can't even remotely remember it, I'm sure, but I remember thinking I had honestly awoken permanently and that taking a drug was the "story" the universe had to use to get there. I looked at my friend and said "you're only a thought in my mind" and he laughed. I also felt sad. I saw the people I loved as being the same as me, despite the fact we were apparently playing different roles. I looked at a book and I realize I wrote it, because it manifested itself out of silence, and all explanations couldn't explain away the fact the universe just materialized the programming of the book in front of me with its own intelligence.

I also told my friend "I can't believe I'm going to go back" (to the world of self). Somehow within only a few moments I was back and felt fairly normal. The entire trip knocked me slightly off kilter for a few weeks. I had experience with other substances and also losing my "self" was liberating to me. I've heard for a lot of people it's incredibly frightening.
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Re: Experiences with DMT?

Postby Naviy Pokoy » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:06 pm

I've watched "DMT - The Spirit Molecule" documentary and I was searching the web and youtube for the descriptions of DMT experiences, and it all was very interesting. Even more - based on what I have learnt about DMT experience, now I believe that there is a relation between how people describe DMT experience and the experience of consciousness (for example, "there was no time, the idea of time itself was senseless, there was no I also, but I saw the reason of everything, etc.). It is very interesting, but I will never have enough courage to try any drug.
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Re: Experiences with DMT?

Postby rachMiel » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:56 pm

I've never taken DMT -- or any hallucinogen -- but I'm very open to trying, after what I've read.

For me to feel safe, it would have to be in some formal setting, a trial perhaps, where the purity of the DMT was guaranteed.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
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Re: Experiences with DMT?

Postby Naviy Pokoy » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:33 pm

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Re: Experiences with DMT?

Postby Fore » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:34 pm

Naviy Pokoy wrote:Please, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keJGvy9sKWs


This does not seem helpful, as it promotes chasing experiences.
What about accepting this moment as it is, in its perfection, Now?
Why do we have to alter this moment with drugs?
The guy also seemed very emotional, he did not appear very balanced.
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Re: Experiences with DMT?

Postby Naviy Pokoy » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:54 am

Everything that comes out of mind is experience. Every memory is experience. Such called "enlightment" is experience. Being a human is experience already. Without the mind there is no experience at all.

Should you chase experiences? No, of course. But experience may guide you to the shift of perception, where no experience is needed.

Yes, in that video the person is talking about experience, because anything a human can talk about is experience, but it is guiding experience. He just does not know that what he saw was truth. Just taking a drug made him see and know the same, what others call "enlightment", he saw it naturally without any teachings or ideas about it.
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Re: Experiences with DMT?

Postby Tomgh » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:29 pm

I find both DMT and LSD very interesting experiences if you can be the observer to what happens.

My mind is very active. And it was interesting to experience how every part of what I thought to be real disappeared one at the time. Hearing, touch, sight. To a point where only my thoughts were left, and as I felt that too slip away a panic arose. I find it frightening to completely let go. Which shows me a big sense of I is my thoughts.

LSD I find way more comfortable.
I remember looking at my girlfriend and I thought: it's as if all this time I've been walking around with a photograph and showed people the picture and said: let me introduce you, this is my girlfriend, but never actually saw her.
And this was so for everything I saw. In "What the bleep" it's mentioned that you only perceive some like 20% of what your eyes actually see. It's obvious too, you can't admire everything you see, you'd get lost. And even that's not all. Your mind has to analyse and tell you what it sees as quick as it can. Road - Flowers - Grass- Three - Bird - Bear! We wouldn't have survived if we'd seen everything as if it's the first time you look.

Also, as wonderful as meditation is, this experience I believe isn't attainable in another way. It's just like Alan Watts says on meditation: he goes in steps taking you deeper and deeper and than he says now try to hear the sound of my voice, and just hear the sound. Don't turn the sound into words... Or when there is the sound of a bird, try to hear just the sound, and not attach the label: bird. Soon enough you find you can't. It's what the brain does. Sound isn't even really there. It's just a vibration. Your brain turns the input into sound and as it does it labels. You'd have to either transcend sound fully through deep deep meditation. Or you turn off/ dim this instrument which labels. And there is a tool for that, it's LSD.
Oh wait haha, I forget there is a third option, and that's to not be aware of the sound at all ^_^ which is also a possibility.
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Re: Experiences with DMT?

Postby Fore » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:49 am

Naviy Pokoy wrote:Everything that comes out of mind is experience. Every memory is experience. Such called "enlightment" is experience. Being a human is experience already. Without the mind there is no experience at all.

Should you chase experiences? No, of course. But experience may guide you to the shift of perception, where no experience is needed.

Yes, in that video the person is talking about experience, because anything a human can talk about is experience, but it is guiding experience. He just does not know that what he saw was truth. Just taking a drug made him see and know the same, what others call "enlightment", he saw it naturally without any teachings or ideas about it.


The trouble with drugs is not the experience, its that one will link the drug to achieving a state of mind or concentrated state. One will develop craving for these concentrated states of mind, essentially one will be playing games with experience. This is a trap.
Also drugs will eventually lead to heedlessness, and you will be subject to making poor moral decisions.
At the base of ones practice there must exist a strong moral foundation, this will allow for one to develop mastery of the mind, this will lead to experiential wisdom. This wisdom is liberative. You will never develop the wisdom to let go completely with the use of a drug, it will only take you so far(states of Samadhi). These can have their own heath benefits but if the health benefit is linked to a drug addiction it is risky, and difficult to come out of.
There are no shortcuts, just observe when the effects of the drug, or the concentrated state wears off if you have changed for the better.
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Re: Experiences with DMT?

Postby Naviy Pokoy » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:46 pm

Yes, state of mind does not matter. And you do not need to achieve anything or to develop anything. You just need to look at the one who is looking, and see that there is no difference between what is seen and the seer. There is no "seen" and "seer" at all. All is one. And there is no "I" in this discovery. There is no "you". That is all.

And I do not consider DMT as a tool or method to "achieve" some kind of special "enlightened" state. There are no tools for it at all. It is not even possible.
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Re: Experiences with DMT?

Postby Fore » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:23 pm

Naviy Pokoy wrote:Yes, state of mind does not matter.

Most state of mind is matter.


Naviy Pokoy wrote:And you do not need to achieve anything or to develop anything.
True.

Naviy Pokoy wrote: You just need to look at the one who is looking, and see that there is no difference between what is seen and the seer.

There is a difference between what is seen and the seer. What is seen arises and passes away it is impermanent by nature, What is seen due to its impermanent nature cannot be you, if you lose your leg in a car accident are you diminished. See what is seen for what it is misery, suffering, unsatisfactoriness.


Naviy Pokoy wrote:There is no "seen" and "seer" at all. All is one. And there is no "I" in this discovery. There is no "you". That is all.

With this attitude, just don't get hit by a bus. :)

Naviy Pokoy wrote:And I do not consider DMT as a tool or method to "achieve" some kind of special "enlightened" state. There are no tools for it at all. It is not even possible.

Then let it go, one less thing to do and eventually undo.
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Re: Experiences with DMT?

Postby Tomgh » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:51 pm

Everything takes place in you. There's the Now, and there's the content of the Now. You are the Now, in you forms take place, even though they may be fleeting. This doesn't mean you are the seer. A form is a happening in the Now. You don't feel a feeling. You don't smell a scent. This may become very clear during deep meditation, where the touch of the soft cushion is just that. Touch. As form in the now. An emotion is just that, an emotion present in the frame which is the Now, which is you. Without you there would be no touch. Without you there would be no object.
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Re: Experiences with DMT?

Postby Naviy Pokoy » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:55 am

Tomgh wrote:Everything takes place in you. There's the Now, and there's the content of the Now. You are the Now, in you forms take place, even though they may be fleeting. This doesn't mean you are the seer. A form is a happening in the Now. You don't feel a feeling. You don't smell a scent. This may become very clear during deep meditation, where the touch of the soft cushion is just that. Touch. As form in the now. An emotion is just that, an emotion present in the frame which is the Now, which is you. Without you there would be no touch. Without you there would be no object.


Yes. There is no difference between "you" and "everything else" just because there is no "you". So there is no "everything else" also. There is just what is.

There is no "seer" and "seen" at all. If you see "the seer" and "seen" and if you think that these two have some attributes like "impermanent" or "permanent", that only means that both of them are equally seen. Who sees both ideas of the "seer" and "seen"?

There could be no difference - there is just what is percieved. Percieved by whom? There is no answer. Any answer would be senseless because both question and answer are percieved also.
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