Eckhart Contradicts Other Spiritual Teachings?

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Re: Eckhart Contradicts Other Spiritual Teachings?

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:49 pm

Onceler wrote:To me, the word 'ego' has become one of these memes and doesn't address the subtly of our personality as a human, as you eloquently suggest, WW. Defanging ego allows us to see the real problem, fear, and live a fully psychologically integrated human life without fear that our egos are malfunctioning......without shame or the worry that something is wrong. To me, the worry about the ego being 'wrong' has a de-energizing feel to it and is another form of the fear of life that can be deadening and distancing.

I like your take here. There is no need to create enemies of our own belief structures, even if it's about who we imagine we are. Simply see what those structures are, how they serve, and change what is not working in terms of creating desired experience. Of course simple does not necessarily mean easy, but at least there is a path to walk if we choose it.

WW
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Re: Eckhart Contradicts Other Spiritual Teachings?

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:41 pm

slow ride wrote:I lean more to the perspective that this separation world is something worthy of being escaped.

I suppose most great teachers have had both messages:
1. A better experience here via disentangled experience/acceptance, and
2. Ending the reincarnation cycle.

Yes, I subscribe generally to exploration and choice as suggested in item 1.

Item 2 I'm not convinced is wholly accurate. The problem with it is the underlying assumption that reincarnation is a cycle of entrapment rather than one of choice.

Still, even from your chosen focus on goal 1, you must acknowledge the other goal has had its devotees. No small fraction of the billions who have passed through this adventure will have spent a great deal of their time thinking: There must be a better place and I want to go there.

The problem with this, (and I share the sentiment to a certain degree) is that it comes from a much more limited perspective than the one that chose to come here. Our true nature, the greater beingness that is us, certainly has a clearer and broader understanding as to the beneficial purpose of making the choice to incarnate than we do in our egoic view of life. In all the research I've done, I can find no real implication that incarnation is anything other than voluntary.

If that is the case, then efforts to return fully to our conscious origins - that greater being that is our essence - may be counter productive to our original intent in engaging this human experience. My sense is that while the human experience is important, so too is our connection with our greater nature while living it. That connection, I believe, is available to anyone who genuinely pursues it and creates the necessary conditions for its unfoldment. There certainly is ample teachings on the matter.

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Re: Eckhart Contradicts Other Spiritual Teachings?

Postby slow ride » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:33 pm

Well stated.
Very well stated.
I have no counter.
I am curious about the research done that found no evidence for other than intentional incarnation. I realize evidence is an overly strong word here as all is unprovable. Near-death experiences, ancient creation legends from separate cultures, specific statements from teachers? Certainly Alan Watts, whom I appreciate, considered "that we throw ourselves out into the farthest adventures to see if we can find our way home." If you ever felt inclined to share key sources from research that reinforce voluntarism, I'm interested.

And, I suppose I must restate myself from some other thread...we are luxuriating in first-world leisure; many on this planet presently are feeling quite entrapped.
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Re: Eckhart Contradicts Other Spiritual Teachings?

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:03 pm

slow ride wrote:I realize evidence is an overly strong word here as all is unprovable.

May I first suggest that we get a clear understanding on the nature of evidence and proof. Having worked in law enforcement for 10 plus years, most of it in an investigative capacity, I have a long relationship with evidence and proof. This is how I see it. For the most part proof is an opinion based on evidence. It may be an informed opinion, but it is opinion none the less.

Evidence comes in at least three categories: Hard evidence that can be physically tested, circumstantial evidence - that can be open to interpretation (such as a persons heart stopped during which time he reported seeing visions), and anecdotal evidence that comes in the form of personal reports such as eyewitness testimony. Visions are anecdotal, happening when the heart stopped is circumstantial, a flat EKG or EEG is hard evidence.

Proof is a conclusion based on the evidence, and what is proof to one is not sufficient for another. History is filled with overturned proofs.

I am curious about the research done that found no evidence for other than intentional incarnation...
...If you ever felt inclined to share key sources from research that reinforce voluntarism, I'm interested.

There are many thousands of NDE reports. By one estimate nearly 600 per day in the USA alone. The depth and detail of many of these accounts offers a picture of the larger reality, and how our physical existence relates to it, that brings a fair quality of understanding as to how the overall system works as for as the why human incarnation exists and is chosen.

There is a long history of mediumship where again many thousands of cases reported information on non-physical reality.

There is considerable research and testimony on OBE's. Institutions such as the Monroe Institute train interested parties in OBE techniques. Also see the works of Thomas Campbell, a physicist who has written and interviewed extensively on the subject. Lots of his lectures on YouTube.

There are books and research from PHD hypnotherapists that regress subjects into past life and, more significantly, between life remembrances. See Michael Newton's Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls. There are others.

Then there is the work of Dr Allan Botkin, a therapist who worked mainly with military PTSD patients and discovered a technique without hypnosis he calls IADC (Induced After Death Communication) that allowed sufferers to contact directly the deceased whose memories haunted them for years and decades. Many instant and lasting cures were reported. There's a good recent interview with him on After Death TV. Google it or search Youtube if you are interested.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. There are mountains of evidence to support a non-physical conscious reality. Is there proof? That depends on the one doing the considering. Understand, there are those who claim to research the matter, but other than a cursory look, really have done little to truly understand the possibilities, and are mostly unaware of the depth of the evidence. It's too often just easier for those invested in other ideologies to simply deny such evidence exists. The more one does there own in-depth exploration of the evidence however, the clearer it becomes when someone says there's nothing to it that they haven't really looked.

You must decide for yourself what is most likely the case. Even if it is just to gain a sense of what is most likely, each of us must do so for our own consideration. After decades of personal research, I can see a harmonious and sensible picture of how the interrelatedness works. And in all of that, I see a fundamental reality of free will that prevails in life, including the option to incarnate physically. When that choice is made it is because it serves Us well - maybe not as seen from our human ego perspective, but is clear from the perspective of our True Self.

I think the sense of 'having' to incarnate is exclusively an ego perspective. No one wants to suffer pain. But it may be that we can live a human life, with all its unique possibilities without the pain. And maybe that's part of the exploration and adventure - to find our way to it. As eternal beings, a single human life is but a tiny fraction of the over all experience of life and being. Many such adventures (as the 'evidence' indicates), suggest that the added perspective to our overall conscious being is well worth the difficulties encountered.

Embrace the challenges, or run from them. The choice is ours.

WW
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Re: Eckhart Contradicts Other Spiritual Teachings?

Postby slow ride » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:13 pm

Quite happy to have found this forum. :D
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Re: Eckhart Contradicts Other Spiritual Teachings?

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:17 pm

slow ride wrote:Quite happy to have found this forum. :D


Me too :)

I've been following the posts and am particularly nodding and smiling at Onceler and WW.

Much love,

Jack
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Re: Eckhart Contradicts Other Spiritual Teachings?

Postby Onceler » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:35 pm

Thanks, Jack. Nice to have you here, Slowride.
Be present, be pleasant.
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Re: Eckhart Contradicts Other Spiritual Teachings?

Postby Enlightened2B » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:55 pm

Beautifully said WW. I'm with you Jack. Some wonderful posters on this board for sure.
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Re: Eckhart Contradicts Other Spiritual Teachings?

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:59 pm

Thanks all. Thanks for the opportunity to explore with you. :D

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Re: Eckhart Contradicts Other Spiritual Teachings?

Postby slow ride » Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:10 pm

Just read the Michael Newton books Journey and Destiny through a couple times each.

The only surprise for me here was that degree to which WE, the collective simultaneous extension of Source, are so working with one another as guides, teachers, cohorts and facilitators on the journey back to Perfect Oneness for All of the One simultaneous extension.

At first, I was unsure of this picture of the journey as a Perfection Academy where all teachers are advanced students...

But on further reflection it makes sense...Source is never going to acknowledge the dream through direct interaction as such an action would only make the dream real.

Truly it is a prodigal son thing.
Did it to ourselves.
Must undo it to ourselves.

Anyway, best book recommendations I've received in decades.
Good call, WW.
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Re: Eckhart Contradicts Other Spiritual Teachings?

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:38 pm

It you liked Newton's books, you might also try Natalie Sudmans' Application of Impossible Things. I found it most enlightening. It's a small read in terms of pages, but the distance in perspective traveled can be great indeed. I consistently had to stop and consider the implications of her report. Had to read and reread paragraph after paragraph in order to get its depth and insight - and the valuable shift in perspective that that insight offered.

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Re: Eckhart Contradicts Other Spiritual Teachings?

Postby slow ride » Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:33 pm

Thanks for additional recommendation. Not read it yet.

Was reading Michael Newton's books a third time.
I must say my third impression soured a bit.
I think he undermined the value of his work with use of too-leading questions with clients, too little straight-up reporting and too much conjecture and attempts to draw conclusions and draw a "complete" picture for us.
Much more trance content and much less conjecture, please.
Want to recommend these books, but will only rarely.

Why can't people just report and let the reader contemplate?
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Re: Eckhart Contradicts Other Spiritual Teachings?

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:19 pm

Can't say as I disagree with you. That said, he certainly added a good deal of insight to the subject of greater perspective.

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Re: Eckhart Contradicts Other Spiritual Teachings?

Postby slow ride » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:54 am

For sure. Awesome development. Human zeal just kinda got all into it and did what human zeal does.
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Re: Eckhart Contradicts Other Spiritual Teachings?

Postby Psychoslice » Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:35 am

Teachings are not the truth, they can point to truth but in themselves they are not. Trying to put non duality into words can be very paradoxical, because they are mere words, ....don't get caught up in the words, no matter where they come from, no matter how beautiful they sound, their just words.
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