Personality

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Personality

Postby sebseb » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:18 pm

After reading most of Eckhart's books I, and many people around me, still have this question: Eckhart Tolle proposes that we get rid of our ego and, by dis-identifying with mind, we stay with the "Consciousness". Ok. The question is: without Mind, how do I know what is my "personality": my tastes, what I love to do in life, my mannerisms, ways of speaking, personality traits (funny, shy, patient, etc...). Without Mind, how do I know who is the "I" that observes? How do I ask for a cup of coffee or how am I supposed to act with people and the world?

This confusion has, definetely, to be solved for many people who are utterly confused at this.

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Re: Personality

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:53 am

No one is saying get rid of mind. You couldn't if you tried. Rather let go of identification with thought constructs that create a mental, thought generated, sense of self. You are not what you think you are. You are that, within which, thought and experience take place - a spacial conscious beingness that lives the human experience. In other words don't identify with the content of consciousness. Just be the conscious perspective that explores possibilities through life experience. Thought plays an important role in this, but it is not the role of self-identity.

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Re: Personality

Postby sebseb » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:27 am

Would you feel bothered if I asked you to explain further please? I have a problem with ET related "technicisms" such as beingness, consciousness, perspective. Is there a more simple way to describe what you were trying to explain?

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Re: Personality

Postby sebseb » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:34 am

The question is beyond that, I think. Or maybe I am confused. I don't get how ET finds his "Me": the way he speaks, mannerisms, tastes, ambitions. I know he says our "Me" can't be found with Mind, only by dis identifying with it. But by disentifying, won't you also lose your personality? That's my confusion. Personality (ways of talking, mannerisms, tastes, ambitions, way of walking, moving, dealing). Where's my mistake?
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Re: Personality

Postby Phil2 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:49 am

sebseb wrote:The question is beyond that, I think. Or maybe I am confused. I don't get how ET finds his "Me": the way he speaks, mannerisms, tastes, ambitions. I know he says our "Me" can't be found with Mind, only by dis identifying with it. But by disentifying, won't you also lose your personality? That's my confusion. Personality (ways of talking, mannerisms, tastes, ambitions, way of walking, moving, dealing). Where's my mistake?


Why are you afraid to 'lose your personality' ... what is 'lost' exactly ? Are you so 'attached' to your way to speak or to behave, to your opinions, tastes, beliefs, judgements and knowledge and identities ? all the likes and dislikes, all the dichotomies ...

??

The sense of self (ie. ego) is a creation of thought, an identity, but it is not the whole of thought ... thought can perfectly operate without the ego ... then factual thought becomes a tool at your service (so to speak because there is no 'me') and not the other way round ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Personality

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:01 pm

sebseb wrote:Would you feel bothered if I asked you to explain further please? I have a problem with ET related "technicisms" such as beingness, consciousness, perspective. Is there a more simple way to describe what you were trying to explain?

Hug

I use 'beingness' here to refer to a particular type of experience from a greater consciousness perspective - such as in human beingness I'm using a verb reference as an exploration of a type of active experience rather than a static noun reference like human being. This kind of active reference helps in maintaining a broader, more soul-like perspective when considering the human experience.

Consciousness in my reference is mostly to be specific to a certain range of considered content within a broader fundamental awareness. Consciousness is also germane to perspective. One is conscious of a certain perspective. That perspective can be related to identification as self or it can be simply considering another point of view.

Perspective is a focused point of view. It can be rather fixed or it can be explored as a temporary consideration to gain greater understanding - or a broader range of consciousness.

Of course this is just my usage. Someone else may have their own.

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Re: Personality

Postby viking55803 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:10 am

I would like to add that in my view the ego/emotional complex is what most of us think of as our "selves." It is how we chiefly distinguish ourselves from others in our species, the "false" sense of of duality that is necessary to survive as a social species.

What is more interesting to me is that these ego/emotional complexes appear in common forms. The Greeks had "gods" for endless archetypal ego/emotional complexes they saw in themselves and others. Eckart Tolle sometimes talks about the pain body (and mental/emotional complex) almost appearing as if it was a separate being. That would be an example of how such a complex could appear to have a "personality" or set of characteristics that could be characterized as an archetypal complex. Carl Jung of course understood this and it was the basis of his conception of the human psyche. Still, I find don't find ET's teachings to contradict the Jungian perspective - except that one is a psychology and the other a spiritual practice.
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Re: Personality

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:14 am

Viking said: Still, I find don't find ET's teachings to contradict the Jungian perspective - except that one is a psychology and the other a spiritual practice.

Which is which, and why?
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Re: Personality

Postby Sighclone » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:36 am

Welcome sebseb!

Poor Eckhart. He had this big experience and then, starting in 1999, he tried to explain what happened. Largely he succeeds, at least enough that people can test their own experience with his words. His main thrust is to discount your current "sense of self" which is, yes, based in your autobiographical identity which he (and most of the rest of the world) labels "ego." That is "who you think you are." And who you have been, your "comfort zone of self." ... just me ... . But Eckhart had a big shift. It was so radical for him that he essentially fainted.

A different perspective on who "you" are is added. But nothing is really removed. You are still capable of "being yourself." It's just that after the shift, after Unity Consciousness is glimpsed, there is another perspective to compete for your identity. This one is really big. And non-local. But until you have a glimpse of it, sebseb, it's just a concept.

We are language-bound as readers. But ET has a way of expressing himself that points away from his egoic identity, and thereby, also away from your traditional one. Otherwise you would not have turned to page 2. Something attracted you, and also attracted you to a big old forum (10 years on here) with thoughtful, caring folks.

You can try all you like to "understand" awakening. Just like you can try to understand what an orange tastes like. Or what an orgasm feels like. Your understanding will simply fail, because the experience, even a glimpse of awakening is actually trans-mental. It is an event outside of time. (there...try to understand that!!!) By that, I mean that it is a riveting introduction to the absolute present moment, not invaded by thought. Although it is empty, it is very pregnant and very complete.

Keep reading, probably other authors -- there is a section in this forum devoted to other writers/teachers. Start a regular practice of meditation. Explore the world of teachers, and take an Inner Hike, too.

It takes a lot of work to stumble over the obvious.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Personality

Postby Nameste » Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:04 pm

Good posts here on this. I will add something. I think we as humans will always have our personalities, although they can get more and more refined. But simultanious to that we can have a disassociated awareness as it happens. A sort of background presence while operating in the foreground. The background informs the forground so you act with skill, ethics, and compassion. If you have cultivated this enough, then as you live experience can become the great teacher, or un-doer, so as to not create cycles of habitual patterns. When enough is gone you truley live free.

I am studying and practicing a buddist method of jhaha states. These are highly concentrated states where it takes many hours a day for many days to achieve a stillness of mind such that eventually the objext and the subject become one. Along the way jhana factors happen. Such things as rapture, bliss, and equanimity are experiecned as the mornal hinderances drop away. The state bukld momentum so that the experience is desired more than sense experience or even thought. Eventually the object of meditation, typically the breath, turns light like, as if everything is lumenous and blended as one. As I understand you then sort of step into this and the self is then extinguished (just for a time) and you enter into absorbtion, or the jhana state. There are 4 material jhana states, and 4 immaterial ones. So this is a path with plenty of depth and discovery. I did a 10 day retreat doing this and didn't obtain this, but did experience much of thia along the way. And I can say that upon leaving the retreat, for a time (many days), I had this strong background present with the forground. My guess is someone who fully engages in jhana regualily would have experience blended fully with depth and have no reaction, but carry these beautiful qualities of the jhana state as they live in the planet. At least that is the concept as I understand.
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Re: Personality

Postby smiileyjen101 » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:51 am

Is your understanding consistent with these explanations Nameste?

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... jhana.html
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Re: Personality

Postby Nameste » Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:09 am

Is your understanding consistent with these explanations Nameste?

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... jhana.html


Yes, they list the 4 material jhanas. There are also 4 immaterial jhanas. These are the arupa (rupa jhanas are the first 4. Rupa means material). The arupa ones are space, conciousness, nothingness, and the space of neither perception nor non-perception.

As I understand it, if you leave your body (die) when in a jhana state, then you never take human form again because there would be no momentum of thought to carry you back to form. Far out stuff. My guess is Eckhert stumbled into these states but didn't know what they were from a buddist context. I have no idea what levels, how deep, or how present these states were, or currently are for him. But there are saints. lamas, and rishis who can achieve sidhis (powers) of all sorts from the depth of jhana. But it seems enough for us lay people just to get more conscious in this life time. I do plan to do more jhana retreats and I do hope to open the door into these states. Not everyone can, even some who practice ernestly. I've heard it said that you need a lifetime of preperation prior to mastering this. So the people who do achieve would have spent this life or a previous one in preperation. No doubt Eckhart was advanced in previous life and just needed the catalyst in this one. :)
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Re: Personality

Postby Sighclone » Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:54 am

Nameste -

Please keep us informed as you progress. Thanks for the updates!

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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