law of attraction and being present

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Re: law of attraction and being present

Postby Maga » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:51 am

David92506 wrote:
I realize that your question was directed at a certain person. It's hard to change or belief systems. I hope that this link helps in understanding how to change our beliefs. I would also appreciate your feedback. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTd2Im5_KjE


I've just sent my answer and it seems not to be there... I'll do it again - sorry if you will get it double.

Thank you for the link, David. I'll will listen to it today evening (my European evening :-) ) and will give you my feedback.

My question was directed to WW because it poped in my mind after I was reading his words. But, of course, I would highly appreciate answers, ideas, input of everyone. I feel stuck. Eckhart seems not to be enough because of LOA that makes mess of my life...
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Re: law of attraction and being present

Postby beginnersmind » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:33 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
While some may judge greed as wrong, the universe itself sees it as just another experience.

WW


The only people who make claim that greed is not wrong are those that confuse the Absolute with the manifested and practice level confusion at one's convenience; namely neo-advaitists and new agers who practice spiritual bypassing and pass it off as wisdom.

Ramana Maharshi, Th Buddha, Jesus, Tao Tzu, and all the great traditions and teachers practiced no such thing. Ethics were never discarded and greed was never seen as something just "neutral". Of course those that profess such neutrality, I'm sure that idea would be thrown out the window if ever the person experience lets say, losing their home or their entire 401k due to someone's greed.

And now you're supposing that the universe is this and that and sees this and that as if you know it to be fact; as if you have an omniscient grasp of the universe? This is merely your opinion and one shared by many modern LOA authors to the point of platitude.


Webwanderer wrote: So while you have concerns about LoA as you perceive it described in "The Secret", (I am no advocate of The Secret, nor do I condemn it) because you worry about people using its guidance to advance what you see as greed, the universe itself makes no such distinction. It's just the way creation works. It would seem that the Universe/Source has confidence in its conscious perspectives to make use of experience - all experience - in the evolution of consciousness and being. WW


This is not based in fact, but again merely your speculation through "omniscient" opinion and one that I have seen in countless LOA books. These aren't even your thoughts, you're merely repeating them.

Electricity could be considered creation, but it is still up to mankind how it will be used. Do we use it to cook the food or the man? (oh that was cliche')

We are all interconnected and interdependent, and this is where the flaw of manifesting usually lies, because the focus is on the singular person reading the book and not relationship, which often leaves a dissociation of how one is affecting the other.

Are 3rd world countries poor simply because of the collective vibrational feelings of the people that is often taught in LOA? That would be the cop out way to explain away and justify why some countries and billions of people are below the poverty line, while ironically people who often have their basic needs met (and then some) are whining and crying about manifesting more. Never mind the fact that often times other "civilized" countries exploit many of these 3rd world countries putting them in a debt in which the way to pay it off is to exploit their natural resources and keeping the country and people (except for maybe a select few) in poverty. Never mind that western society enjoys cheap goods due to the exploitation of labor. Never mind that the west manifests so much material waste that they pay countries like India and China to take our trash. Out of sight, out of mind.

That's on a macro level, but how do each of us individually contribute to it? Is a new consciousness really arising (with a higher vibration) as often pontificated by the Hay House crowd or is it business as usual with people meditating and "being spiritual" while at the same time, pursuing and trying to figure out how to get things like the latest iPhone 6 because they just have to have it.

What do I really know about Jerry Hick's core beliefs? Did I ever make a claim that I knew? What I said was that he died of Leukemia, so did he attract it to himself, because that is the very teaching that the Hicks taught through the supposed masters of Abraham. We attract illness through the LOA. Kind of like in one of their books them talking about how Esther attracted this rug that she really wanted (thus somehow proving LOA I guess)

Webwanderer wrote: I tend to address these points, not so much to defend what needs no defense, but to bring clarity where LoA is described in limitation. Clarity it would seem, is always a good thing. And when an issue such as LoA is pointed to in a limited, one sided manor, I see it as beneficial to whoever may read it to get a more inclusive picture of the subject. WW


Huh, so we agree on something and I have seen LOA pointed to in a limited one sided manner for quite a while now, so I see it as beneficial to whoever may read it to get a more bigger picture of the subject. And what you bring, like all of us, is your point of view, not so much clarity.

I will also provide another recommendation of a book on the subject. James Allen wrote a book called, "As a Man Thinketh", that is rather popular in the new thought movement. But he wrote another book that I think is better and focuses much more on within. It is called, "From Poverty to Power". Of course this isn't about materialistic poverty to power, but spiritual poverty to power.
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Re: law of attraction and being present

Postby coriolis » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:57 pm

Fascinating to watch a group of unsupervised kindergarteners in a room with a bowl full of M&Ms and see how some get a little, some get a lot, and some get none at all.

More interesting still is to contrast the explanations of the greediest children with those of similarly behaving adults.

The kids will generally just tell the truth, "I got a lot because I grabbed a lot", or have nothing at all to say for their shameful behavior.

However, adults will invoke LOA, macro-economics, free market enterprise, or a thousand other cover-ups rather than merely admit the same or remain silent in appropriate shame.
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin
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Re: law of attraction and being present

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:57 pm

coriolis wrote:their shameful behavior.

appropriate shame.

Shaming our children? And each other? Maybe love would be more helpful. Inspire rather than punish. I wonder how many depressed people got there through entrained feelings of shame.

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Re: law of attraction and being present

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:30 pm

beginnersmind wrote:What I said was that he died of Leukemia, so did he attract it to himself, because that is the very teaching that the Hicks taught through the supposed masters of Abraham. We attract illness through the LOA. Kind of like in one of their books them talking about how Esther attracted this rug that she really wanted (thus somehow proving LOA I guess)


I do not at all, think that's how disease works and from that statement, I can tell you that your understanding of chronic illness and manifesting is limited, which makes me think the rest of your understanding of manifesting is also limited and I mean that politely.

As someone who has a chronic illness, I've researched so much over the past couple of years in trying to have a better understanding of illness from an energetic standpoint. I have crohns disease and some other issues with my body. Illness doesn't just happen out of no where, nor do you merely attract illness in the simplest sense.

Chronic Illness is manifested in the body from an energetic standpoint. Everything is energy. Literally. Therefore, illness (chronic) is often the result of certain mistaken beliefs that are misperceptions, that get stored in the memory cells of the human body. Remember, that emotions are energy, and therefore, what you believe on the outermost layer of your Being, will transmute to the more dense physical layers of the body. It's called manifesting. You manifest disease by your belief systems (and genetics too of course, environmental factors among other things) on an energetic level, which get holographically imputted in the DNA/cells on a physical level. However, I got sick from chronic stress that built up in the body. But, where does stress come from? Stress came from my own beliefs about life, relationships and everything else going on in my life, and how I perceived the present moment. Beliefs are incredibly powerful because certain beliefs are often mis-perceptions of what is, and again, that gets mimicked in the DNA of our physical bodies, and stored in the memory cells and those memories stay within the body, block energetic flow and manifest disease, since everything is holographically connected from the higher energetic levels, to the more dense physical levels. However, genetics also play a role. Meaning, you can be incredibly more susceptible to a disease with a gene mutation such as MTHFR. There's also disease that is planned on a pre-incarnation level.

If you can consider that in other dimensions of Being (non physical ones), manifesting occurs instantaneously, simply by the power of our beliefs (thoughts with intent) in an instant, then why would it not be the same in physical reality? Of course, the only difference, is that physical reality is a much more dense layer of vibration. Therefore, manifestation is not automatic obviously, here on the physical realm. I'm not referring to 'pop-LoA', such as 'think this, and it will happen'. It's not as simple as that. It's not thought alone, it's belief and the power energetically, that beliefs have in our lives. You're exactly right. Everything is in relationship here and I love that you pointed that out. That's why we don't have AS much power in the physical realm because of the density of this physical realm, but that doesn't mean that LoA/manifesting is not exactly, what it sounds like. You're manifesting right now as you read and write this, based on your own beliefs as am I based on my own beliefs. It might not appear obvious to you right now, but if you start to take notice of things in your life, and relate to your own beliefs, you can see how you absolutely can attract certain experiences to yourself, simply based on your beliefs alone. Again, energetically, like attracts like.

In regards to illness again, which I'm trying to stick to here, I highly recommend 'Dying to be Me' by Anita Moorjani. A woman who had a NDE and recovered completely from lymphoma (or leukemia, forget which one). Granted, her recovery happened largely while in the other realm of Being and it's not as easy in the physical realms to completely recover because there are so many factors here in physicality which affect health, but the main point is that it's beliefs that keep us chronically sick. Also, check out this thread too and this video from William Buhlman. There's a lot of insight into beliefs here, and how it works in the less dense realms once we leave our bodies.



http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth.info/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=13154
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Re: law of attraction and being present

Postby coriolis » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:07 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
coriolis wrote:their shameful behavior.

appropriate shame.

Shaming our children? And each other? Maybe love would be more helpful. Inspire rather than punish. I wonder how many depressed people got there through entrained feelings of shame.

WW


The shame is from an internal source often referred to as a "conscious" and, like physical pain, no more than a warning that something is wrong and needs correcting.
Making more of it is optional but certainly not necessary.
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin
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Re: law of attraction and being present

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:44 pm

coriolis wrote:The shame is from an internal source often referred to as a "conscious" and, like physical pain, no more than a warning that something is wrong and needs correcting.
Making more of it is optional but certainly not necessary.

So, you're speaking of your own shame? That's clearer. The way you put it seemed to suggest that children feel shame naturally when they follow their desires. Usually it takes an adult projecting judgment of wrong doing to get them to feel shame. There's no need to limit it to just feelings of shame as guides. All emotions are guides. If you've read my posts you know I have refered to the value of emotions as guides to alignment for some time.

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Re: law of attraction and being present

Postby coriolis » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:22 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
coriolis wrote:The shame is from an internal source often referred to as a "conscious" and, like physical pain, no more than a warning that something is wrong and needs correcting.
Making more of it is optional but certainly not necessary.

So, you're speaking of your own shame? That's clearer. The way you put it seemed to suggest that children feel shame naturally when they follow their desires. Usually it takes an adult projecting judgment of wrong doing to get them to feel shame. There's no need to limit it to just feelings of shame as guides. All emotions are guides. If you've read my posts you know I have refered to the value of emotions as guides to alignment for some time.

WW


I'm speaking of shame in general but not excluding any of my own.
Anyone should feel shame when they act on desires that are purely selfish or self centered -- otherwise it is no good as a guide at all.
If you think that only good results when children "naturally follow their desires" I tend to want to conclude that you've probably never raised any kids or define "naturally following their desires" as only following the good ones.
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
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Re: law of attraction and being present

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:31 pm

coriolis wrote:If you think that only good results when children "naturally follow their desires" I tend to want to conclude that you've probably never raised any kids or define "naturally following their desires" as only following the good ones.

I've raised two. They're both adults now, married and out on their own. Both are far ahead of where I was in their enjoyment of life at a similar age. But then my parents didn't encourage me and were rather neglectful. Took me a lot of years to get through the distorted view of perceived failures and low self worth.

Anyone should feel shame when they act on desires that are purely selfish or self centered -- otherwise it is no good as a guide at all.

What another "should" or should not feel under any given circumstance is just an unqualified judgment on another's life experience and what the best perception might be to those circumstances. I'm far happier being free of such judgment. That certain feelings arise relative to our thinking and our actions is practical insight to the one who knows how to make use of it. At least in the short run. From the larger perspective it all has value whether we recognize it in the moment or not. Recognition is the first step to freedom. Denial or avoidance is a ticket to the (not so) merry go round.

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Re: law of attraction and being present

Postby coriolis » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:51 pm

Webwanderer wrote:What another "should" or should not feel under any given circumstance is just an unqualified judgment on another's life experience and what the best perception might be to those circumstances. I'm far happier being free of such judgment. That certain feelings arise relative to our thinking and our actions is practical insight to the one who knows how to make use of it. At least in the short run.


"Judgment" and "distinction" do not mean the same thing.
Judging is distinction with condemnation or approval.
Lacking either a will to condemn or approve that in which the distinction is noticed I do not think I am "judging".
Perhaps "should" might have been better stated "under optimal operating parameters" or some term less connotative of judgment.

Webwanderer wrote: From the larger perspective it all has value whether we recognize it in the moment or not. Recognition is the first step to freedom. Denial or avoidance is a ticket to the (not so) merry go round.

WW


This rings true.
Well said too.
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin
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Re: law of attraction and being present

Postby beginnersmind » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:23 pm

Enlightened, the problem with your whole reply to me, is what you quoted from me stating I don't understand this or that, is what you quoted is not my understanding, but a claim made by someone else.
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Re: law of attraction and being present

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:41 pm

beginnersmind wrote:Enlightened, the problem with your whole reply to me, is what you quoted from me stating I don't understand this or that, is what you quoted is not my understanding, but a claim made by someone else.


I don't really know much about Hick's teaching. So, I can't really comment.

I was under the impression that you were making a general assumption about what most LoA teachings promote, based on your reference to LoA teachings.

Since you indicated that my whole reply was a problem, can you tell me which part of it, you see as the problem?
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Re: law of attraction and being present

Postby beginnersmind » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:22 am

Enlightened2B wrote:
I don't really know much about Hick's teaching. So, I can't really comment.

I was under the impression that you were making a general assumption about what most LoA teachings promote, based on your reference to LoA teachings.

Since you indicated that my whole reply was a problem, can you tell me which part of it, you see as the problem?
Enlightened2B wrote:
I do not at all, think that's how disease works and from that statement, I can tell you that your understanding of chronic illness and manifesting is limited, which makes me think the rest of your understanding of manifesting is also limited and I mean that politely. http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth.info/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=13154


Eric: That part and then you follow it up to tell me like it is. I don't have time for a long reply, but as I've said before there is truth in LOA. This can be seen in even the most practical of scenarios with stress and thoughts certainly affect our health both mentally and physically. But when it is dumbed down like some of these pop new age authors present it, then it gets ridiculous. The Hicks has a lot of backtracking to do when Jerry got sick, because their whole shtick was that people who get sick attract it to them through their thoughts and vibrations. The same goes for Wayne Dyer.

BTW, I've read Dying to Be Me. It was OK. Just another Dyer stamped endorsement
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Re: law of attraction and being present

Postby Enlightened2B » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:11 am

beginnersmind wrote:
Eric: That part and then you follow it up to tell me like it is. I don't have time for a long reply, but as I've said before there is truth in LOA. This can be seen in even the most practical of scenarios with stress and thoughts certainly affect our health both mentally and physically. But when it is dumbed down like some of these pop new age authors present it, then it gets ridiculous. The Hicks has a lot of backtracking to do when Jerry got sick, because their whole shtick was that people who get sick attract it to them through their thoughts and vibrations. The same goes for Wayne Dyer.


Fair enough. Again, I don't know anything about Hicks, so perhaps I should have not have included you in that last post. My mistake.

BTW, I've read Dying to Be Me. It was OK. Just another Dyer stamped endorsement


Wayne Dyer has nothing to do with the book. He just wrote the Forward and helped endorse the book.

The story itself is Anita's only and is about Anita's experience in the afterlife and how she manifested cancer by constantly putting her thoughts and attention (fear) on not getting cancer through her whole life and how she was constantly stressed and feared everything, and as a result, wound up manifesting cancer in her body. So, I brought up the book because it's relevant to the topic at hand. Not sure why you referenced Wayne Dyer's endorsement here though. It's pretty irrelevant. I would hope you could look past the fact that he endorsed the book and actually grasp Anita's powerful message of love within her story itself. Again, where beliefs play a role. We might have a belief that a particular actor is terrible or we might have some preconceived ideas about an actor. Then, we go see a movie with that actor, and we can't look past the fact that, that particular actor was in the movie, and we miss the entire message of the movie because our coloring of our perspective prevented from grasping the movie itself.
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Re: law of attraction and being present

Postby beginnersmind » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:26 am

Enlightened2B wrote:

Wayne Dyer has nothing to do with the book. He just wrote the Forward and helped endorse the book.

The story itself is Anita's only and is about Anita's experience in the afterlife and how she manifested cancer by constantly putting her thoughts and attention (fear) on not getting cancer through her whole life and how she was constantly stressed and feared everything, and as a result, wound up manifesting cancer in her body. So, I brought up the book because it's relevant to the topic at hand. Not sure why you referenced Wayne Dyer's endorsement here though. It's pretty irrelevant. I would hope you could look past the fact that he endorsed the book and actually grasp Anita's powerful message of love within her story itself. Again, where beliefs play a role. We might have a belief that a particular actor is terrible or we might have some preconceived ideas about an actor. Then, we go see a movie with that actor, and we can't look past the fact that, that particular actor was in the movie, and we miss the entire message of the movie because our coloring of our perspective prevented from grasping the movie itself.


I'm pretty sure if I remember right from Dyer bragging on one of his PBS specials, Dyer had quite a bit to do with getting the book written and published. I have found that Dyer will endorse just about anything and push a story such as this to keep himself in the spotlight, as the person who discovered this extraordinary woman.

That said, I've read the book and found it OK. It certainly didn't need to be as long as it was, and some of it, I found boring. I will say though that it is better than that other book from the neurosurgeon (I can't remember it off the top of my head).

If you enjoy the book, I'm glad, hopefully it is helpful for you or inspiring. Since you said that you have health issues, the author of the book sells a CD with deep meditation for healing that might interest you.
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