Is it consciousness or the ego?

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Is it consciousness or the ego?

Postby Merlin82 » Mon May 04, 2015 3:11 am

Hello,

When I am practicing awareness of thoughts I am often confused as to whether I'm actually aware of my thoughts or rather just thinking about thinking. I hope that makes sense. For example I am only really aware of a thought in the past tense not whilst the thought is arising? is that the ego or awareness?

Thankyou
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Re: Is it consciousness or the ego?

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Mon May 04, 2015 7:11 pm

Merlin82 wrote:is that the ego or awareness?


What's the difference?

Is the ego not aware? Does awareness not have a sense of self?

Technicalities and the words of others can be helpful. But your own experience requires neither. It is through your own experience - your own perspective - your own awareness that you will find clarity. Focus less on the words and technicalities that cover the experience and more on the experience itself.

See the awareness of your thoughts and find the awareness of your self.
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Re: Is it consciousness or the ego?

Postby Manyana » Mon May 04, 2015 9:30 pm

In terms of Eckhart's and similar teachings, when we are lost in thought and therefore unaware that is ego. When we wake out of thought and know we were just thinking that is conscious awareness.
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Re: Is it consciousness or the ego?

Postby Grzyby15 » Tue May 05, 2015 11:39 am

So usually we are not aware of anything, of ourself and our ego?
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Re: Is it consciousness or the ego?

Postby Fore » Thu May 07, 2015 1:03 am

EnterZenFromThere wrote: Does awareness not have a sense of self?

I would say no as pure awareness is beyond mind sense and body senses.

{quote="Merlin82"]
When I am practicing awareness of thoughts I am often confused as to whether I'm actually aware of my thoughts or rather just thinking about thinking. I hope that makes sense. For example I am only really aware of a thought in the past tense not whilst the thought is arising? is that the ego or awareness?
[/quote]

We want to come out of thinking and develop in awareness, try awareness of breath, or tactile sensations, at a much, subtler level you can become aware of thoughts and the affects they have. You will be able to feel the tensions created by different thoughts(eg thoughts of anger) and you will come out of these. This must start with the awareness of tactile sensations, begin with breath and move to subtler realities within the body.
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Re: Is it consciousness or the ego?

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Thu May 07, 2015 9:39 pm

Fore wrote:I would say no as pure awareness is beyond mind sense and body senses.


You and I have a very different experience of awareness. For me, awareness IS self. In my personal voyages beyond the physical and mental bodies I continue to exist as my awareness in states very different from the physical senses and the mental body - yes, but still very much my own awareness - my Me - my I Am - my Self. To say anything could exist without an awareness of self is, from my perspective, non-sense. Where do you get this strange idea from? I imagine it's from interpreting the experiences of others from books and such? If it's from personal experiences I'd be fascinated to here what you've experienced directly.
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Re: Is it consciousness or the ego?

Postby Fore » Thu May 07, 2015 10:55 pm

EnterZenFromThere wrote: You and I have a very different experience of awareness. For me, awareness IS self. In my personal voyages beyond the physical and mental bodies I continue to exist as my awareness in states very different from the physical senses and the mental body - yes, but still very much my own awareness - my Me - my I Am - my Self. To say anything could exist without an awareness of self is, from my perspective, non-sense. Where do you get this strange idea from? I imagine it's from interpreting the experiences of others from books and such? If it's from personal experiences I'd be fascinated to here what you've experienced directly.


Correct no-thing can exist without awareness, things are in a continuous state of change(arising and passing). what is this you call Me, myself, or I, but eyes in contact with light wave vibrations, ears in contact with sound vibrations, nose in contact with scent vibrations, tongue in contact with taste vibrations, body in contact with tactile vibrations, and mind in contact with thoughts. At a certain stage the 5 bodily sense doors can shut down this is not a NDE but a death experience, Mind is then free from this attachment to body and expands out infinitely, many people have attained these stages, but this is not liberation, as with any experience it to is in a continuous state of change, so this experience will not last forever. There can be some residual effects from going to these depths and some superficial mental cleansing but the roots remain, eventually the self will creep back in and one will begin to suffer again, no freedom has been achieved.
Practicing with observation of tactile sensations, as Eckhart teaches one will gain wisdom into how this mind/body phenomenon behaves, as the old volitional formations(vibrations) come to the surface one simply observes them, with calm and balanced mind. Little by little the mind is purified, when a certain level of purity has been reached, one is fit to transcend both mind and body and experience the truth of this existence. Then one experiences one, no mind sense(perception) and no bodily sense(sensation/vibration and reaction), just pure consciousness(contact).
This pure consciousness is the true nature and this pure consciousness(awareness) is eternally present and always, but this needs to be realized. Upon this realization (experiential dip) one is purified to some extent or another, at minimum three parts of the ego are permanently destroyed, and there is no force in the universe that can prevent this being from reaching full liberation(the dam has been pierced and will eventually crumble).
Piercing through this veil of ignorance is what Eckhart is describing in his book, when he describes his moment of liberation. Obviously when he is lecturing he has a sense of self, but he has realized this awareness/presence in purity and simply rests with this.
Without this realization of no-self one remains continually rolling through the lokas, finding themselves in high heavenly stages one moment and eventually sinking into the depths of hell another moment, there is no safety, no liberation from suffering.
You could call this awareness self, or ones true self, but you would also have to call this no-self as well as there is no-self in a conventional sense.
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