I just saw this thread and have only read your original post. I support euthanasia (a form of suicide, I think)--if done correctly.
But, at some point if one realizes that what one truly is was never born and cannot die--then do you think that the issue of suicide becomes moot?
I think suicide is an important topic since most of us come to spirituality through intense suffering (and possibly thoughts of suicide). And yet paradoxically, the biggest fear that people have is the fear of death. Go figure!
Thanks for responding.
I understand what you mean by "never born" and "cannot die", but let's be honest - those are just abstract words ... pointers. How many of us can say that we truly realize and live by those words ? How many of us even understand what that means ? And, by "us", I mean the few of us who are (relatively) conscious (as opposed to the population at large). Personally, if I had to decide whether or not I understand them (I kinda do, but mostly don't), I'd say that I don't.
I feel that, while we definitely need to recognize the realm of the formless, we also have to honor the physical form - by that, I mean, we need to listen to the messages it sends us. It doesn't mean we take everything literally, we listen ... some of it is true, some of it is not. If it tells us we need to eat, we may need to eat. If it tells us we need to poop, we probably need to find a toilet. When we feel the need to procreate, we seek a partner. And, there is nothing wrong/unconscious about that, as long as the honoring of the form comes from the foundation of dwelling in the formless. Being present does not mean ignoring the needs of the physical body or even the mind.
So, part of honoring the form is knowing that, despite any amount of presence, we live in an almost entirely insane/unconscious world and we will experience a certain amount of pain/suffering. No matter how present someone is, at the end of the day, survival in this world requires some "doing" (to earn money for food, for instance), some interaction within the realm of form. And, some people decide that, when they factor in that suffering and weigh it against the benefits of going on, it is better not to go on, not to "do". Total acceptance, understanding of the consequences, surrender, and action. No grudges or regrets.
Now, of course, most cases of suicide that people hear of are tainted with words like "mental illness", "impulsive", "cry for help", "ambivalence", or "lover's revenge", and there is no doubt some truth to it in a lot of cases. Unfortunately, this creates an overwhelming bias/taboo against suicide. I am, of course, not
talking about such cases of suicide. I'm talking about someone who has factored everything in - form and formless, good and bad, pros and cons, suffering and salvation, and simply chooses what he/she deems best, with no ill feelings or agendas ... just a practical action. Not out of impulse, I'm talking about someone who has evaluated everything under the light of presence, and cannot be more sure that it is the right choice for them ... absolutely certain. And, I realize that I'm probably only describing 0.0000001% of all who end their lives, but I know that they exist, because I was one of them. Just because I didn't succeed doesn't mean I wasn't certain of my intentions. (BTW, I don't mean to make this about me; I'm just using myself as an example to illustrate my point.)
Let's make no mistake about it - no one else is going to come to us to (permanently) end our suffering; it is our sole responsibility, no matter what "support system" we are deluded into believing we have. We are responsible for our state of consciousness and for bringing about any desired changes. Some of us may make the conscious decision to go on and "do". Others may make the conscious decision to end their physical existence.
So, while I agree with you about honoring the formless, I feel that the form is ultimately inescapable, and needs to be honored from within the context/foundation of the formless.
Thanks for reviving the original discussion ! This is precisely the kind of discussion I had originally intended to have.