Page 1 of 1

Is Tolle Pointing to Enlightenment, or Peace in Samsara?

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:21 am
by krakenhh
I doubt that many people will get what I'm about to say. If it doesn't make immediate sense to you, then don't post.

I think there are two levels to Tolle's teachings. One being a superficial level, (although I don't want to detract from it, because I feel that it is still valuable) which eases suffering in life, in the world of forms, and makes life within the world of forms more pleasurable and reduces suffering. I think that most people implement Tolle's teaching on this superficial level, and within the world of form, as a human, which is fine. They see 'be present to the moment', and within the world of form, as a human, they attend more to the moment, and this makes their lives better and more enjoyable and fulfilling. An awakening out of thought.

On a deeper level, Tolle will say something that one won't 'get' until they've experienced it. 'You are presence'. 'You are consciousness'. 'Space consciousness'. 'Be the space'. In saying these things, Tolle seems to be pointing out a deeper truth. Your true nature. What you truly are. What you have forgotten. Tolle seems to have realized his true nature to me. That he is pervading consciousness. That he is all. An even deeper awakening.

Two different teachings.

Re: Is Tolle Pointing to Enlightenment, or Peace in Samsara?

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:06 pm
by Onceler
Another thing that is difficult to understand is that you can't really have the first experience without the realization of who and what you are. People try to be in the now but are continually frustrated because they are doing things backward. Knowing and seeing who and what you are eliminates fear and with it the hypervigilance and salvation seeking that go with it. When this is gone we can be present to our life as it is.

Easier said than done, as it is a process.

Re: Is Tolle Pointing to Enlightenment, or Peace in Samsara?

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:29 pm
by eputkonen
Onceler wrote:Another thing that is difficult to understand is that you can't really have the first experience without the realization of who and what you are. People try to be in the now but are continually frustrated because they are doing things backward. Knowing and seeing who and what you are eliminates fear and with it the hypervigilance and salvation seeking that go with it. When this is gone we can be present to our life as it is.


For me, it was the other way around. Until I truly got present and the mind stopped, I did not realize who/what I am. People try to be in the now, but I think many try to be present mentally...which is a red herring. It is kinesthetic...inhabiting the body (as Tolle says). Also, you can't try to be present...you are present and the only thing pushing you out is thoughts. Do don't pay attention to thought and focus on fully experiencing the now. The mind slows and stops on its own.

The first time I was truly present, that was when I realized who/what I was. Everything clicked (so to speak) and I saw through the illusions we have created for ourselves. Once you realize who/what you are...it is much easier to stay present because you really can't be other than present...which is what you are.

Now when I give pointers to people who ask for help...I point to being present first. It is very difficult to see what is as it is when you have a noisy mind and are never really aware of here and now.

Too much focus is on "the power of now" and not enough on "who/what am I"...they are two different teachings. Ramana Maharshi focused entirely on "who am I"...and I find people who follow this are having trouble because they are not present and in the head too much. If they were in the body and present, the answer would more likely hit them. Again, it is no something that reveals itself in a noisy mind. HWL Poonja...a student of Ramana Maharshi...would say be quiet and don't think.

All the different ways of pointing at the same thing is interesting.

Re: Is Tolle Pointing to Enlightenment, or Peace in Samsara?

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:19 pm
by Onceler
Cool! I guess there are many roads to the same place. Meditation and mindfulness made me a nervous wreck for many decades. I always wanted more.....salvation, bliss, elevation, etc. Finding out who I was quieted my mind significantly, scratched the itch, made life fascinating as it was (no need for salvation or bliss) and opened the now. I see the now more as a flow......a flow of moments that is immersive and compelling.

Re: Is Tolle Pointing to Enlightenment, or Peace in Samsara?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:03 pm
by Rob X
Yes, I think that there are two facets to Tolle's teaching. One is at the psychological/self-help level and the other involves pointing to our true nature.

Both, crucially, involve the ‘portal’ of the present moment. Our true nature is veiled by the mind’s inclination to abstract and conceptualise which distracts from the ever-present obvious.