Why to trust Eckhart Tolle?

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anonymousUser
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Why to trust Eckhart Tolle?

Post by anonymousUser » Wed May 23, 2018 9:29 pm

Why to trust Eckhart Tolle? How do we know that we are not deluding ourselves? How do we know that we are not lying to ourselves? How do we know that we shouldn't obey our minds (our super-ego/conscience).

For example, I have an urgency to go deep into some thoughts.And maybe I should?

(PS: I probably have OCD, mostly with symptoms of Pure-O, just so you have the context)

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Re: Why to trust Eckhart Tolle?

Post by jukai » Wed May 23, 2018 11:49 pm

Good question. You should doubt/question what anyone tells you.

The only way to know if something Eckhart says is true is to see if it proves true in your experience. Let's say you're taking a Physics class and your professor tells you that when you close an electrical circuit containing a light bulb, the bulb will light up. You won't know that he is telling you the truth till you go to the lab and actually hook up a circuit and close it and the bulb does indeed light up.

Similarly, if Eckhart says that the mind is harmful, or whatever else he says, put it to the test in your life and see if it proves true for you.

There are no universal laws of life in my opinion, and no one person is an authority on how to live life. Each person experiences reality differently. So what proves true for you doesn't necessarily prove true for me.

If you feel like delving deep into thoughts, feel free to do it. Then see what happens as a result. Do you like the result ? That will help you determine whether to do it again.

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Re: Why to trust Eckhart Tolle?

Post by kiki » Wed May 23, 2018 11:52 pm

Lying to oneself means you've hooked into the thought stream and are believing something it is telling you. Waking up does not depend on beliefs, but instead is completely independent of beliefs - no beliefs are required whatsoever to be present and awake. So, as the saying goes, the proof is in the pudding. Give it an honest effort for a period of time by following his pointers to realize presence and see for yourself if your life gains a greater measure of a peace that has nothing to do with believing anything.

There's nothing inherently wrong with delving deeply into some thoughts if so moved, but are you able to extricate yourself from thinking at will? Are you able to find the "off switch" for the mind when it's no longer necessary for some specific task? If you remain lost in thought you are setting yourself up for lying to yourself and the inevitable suffering that will come from it somewhere down the line.

The bottom line is trust is warranted when you see the results for yourself. It's not enough to simply believe it, you have to do the work and then you can trust it when you realize for yourself the truthfulness of what he says. Once you realize and are able to abide in presence you no longer need to look outside yourself to find answers about ending suffering and finding peace. If any teaching is worthwhile you will eventually end up following nobody because you've become your own teacher. The truth is within you as YOU. Waking up is discovering this for yourself.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: Why to trust Eckhart Tolle?

Post by anonymousUser » Thu May 24, 2018 12:37 am

jukai wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 11:49 pm
Good question. You should doubt/question what anyone tells you.
Thank you! It took me 10 years to ask it! :lol:
If you feel like delving deep into thoughts, feel free to do it. Then see what happens as a result. Do you like the result ? That will help you determine whether to do it again.
I delved into thoughts into some degree one week ago. I didn't like the result. It has been feeling like I has damaged my psychological health.

However, part of me claims that I should delved into thoughts completely, 100% (because otherwise I'm trying to avoid something/escape from something). But I'm afraid that I might damage myself even more and it might be incredibly difficult for me to return.

Actually, I've find the power of now before finding "The Power of Now". And part of me says: maybe Eckhart just told me what I wanted to hear? Maybe that is why I was so excited by his book?

kiki wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 11:52 pm
Waking up does not depend on beliefs, but instead is completely independent of beliefs - no beliefs are required whatsoever to be present and awake.
How do I know that what truly happens then is not disassociating from a part of myself?
Give it an honest effort for a period of time by following his pointers to realize presence and see for yourself if your life gains a greater measure of a peace that has nothing to do with believing anything.
Yes, it does :) But I'm afraid that it might be at the expense of truth...at the expense of disassociating from some part of myself...kinda feels that way to me...
but are you able to extricate yourself from thinking at will?
What exactly do you mean by "extricate"?
Are you able to find the "off switch" for the mind when it's no longer necessary for some specific task?
Nope. I can only focus on the present moment, but it's like tug-of-war. My mind always or almost always has many "specific tasks" to digest...usually they are existential/religious/spiritual/psychological/sociological.

But in 2017 I've had one second in the night when my mind was empty and it was awesome :mrgreen:
when you realize for yourself the truthfulness of what he says.
I have realized that it's a valid and coherent paradigm that I can use to look at life through. But does it mean that it's true? Does it mean that it is good in the (very) long run?
Once you realize and are able to abide in presence
Let's say that I am able. I'm just not truly sure if it's a good idea to abide in presence. Part of me believes that abiding in presence is an escape and I should do as my mind says :mrgreen: :oops: :shock: :? :!:

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Re: Why to trust Eckhart Tolle?

Post by Webwanderer » Thu May 24, 2018 3:52 pm

Waking up, to a large extent, is the recognition of beliefs and their effect on our life experience. Primary beliefs are those that we harbor that identify us to ourselves - that define who we are. Find clarity on how beliefs effect our perspective, how they can be entrained and arbitrary, and we go a long way toward waking to our true nature.

WW

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Re: Why to trust Eckhart Tolle?

Post by anonymousUser » Fri May 25, 2018 8:00 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 3:52 pm
Waking up, to a large extent, is the recognition of beliefs and their effect on our life experience. Primary beliefs are those that we harbor that identify us to ourselves - that define who we are.
Could you give me an example?

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Re: Why to trust Eckhart Tolle?

Post by Webwanderer » Fri May 25, 2018 11:04 pm

anonymousUser wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 8:00 pm
Could you give me an example?
Do you believe that some things are wrong? Rape, murder, child abuse, war, etc, etc,. From a human context it's a fairly easy argument to make that many events and conditions in life are wrong. They cause a lot of pain and suffering, and we don't like pain and suffering. This is a common belief among us living this human experience. But what does this belief in wrongness do to our relationship with life? A relationship that at its essence is Source Itself? Does it not put us in a state of judgment and exclusion? Does it not separate us from a more holistic experience of life? Is this not the opposite of the inclusive nature of waking up?

I'm not suggesting that we should turn away from such heinous events in some aloof pose of enlightenment. I was in law enforcement of one type or another for 25 years. I held this perspective then and I had no problem locking up perpetrators of such crimes. I did not however, take it personally and feel an angry sense of judgment toward those I interacted with. Well... not usually. It is after all, a work in progress.

Part of waking up is the recognition that we all live in various degrees of ignorance. If we really knew the truth, we wouldn't do many of the things we do, nor think in many of the ways we think. Do I believe that I am a man? How does that effect my world view? Or can I raise my perspective to perceive that I am an element of consciousness experiencing life as a man? The context is quite different. One might argue one context is awakened relative to the other.

We all hold countless beliefs. Some serve us, others inhibit. Again, primary to most other beliefs is who/what we 'think' we are. Whatever that labeling might be there is always room for expansion.

WW

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Re: Why to trust Eckhart Tolle?

Post by anonymousUser » Mon May 28, 2018 8:43 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 11:04 pm
Do you believe that some things are wrong? Rape, murder, child abuse, war, etc, etc,.
It may depend - what do you exactly mean by "believe"? :)
From a human context it's a fairly easy argument to make that many events and conditions in life are wrong.
It's just a way of speaking "I don't like this! I want to get rid of it or escape from it! I want something else instead of this!". Calling something "wrong" is just a way of communicating one's attitude about something (Unless there is some context, that may give this word a different meaning) :)

BTW: I like questions :)
But what does this belief in wrongness do to our relationship with life?
I wouldn't call that a "belief" :) Rather a fighting attitude against something :) Where in your opinion such an attitude come from? :)
A relationship that at its essence is Source Itself?
I don't truly get this question right now :)
Does it not put us in a state of judgment and exclusion?
Yes, it does put us in a state of judgement :) Exclusion - in a way yes, although can we ever truly exclude something? :) And do we ever truly judge anything? :)
Does it not separate us from a more holistic experience of life?
Yes, in a way :) But who is "right":

:arrow: Those who say that we "should" be open, or
:arrow: Those who say that we "should" "subdue" our realities, because that is what are here for? :)
Is this not the opposite of the inclusive nature of waking up?
What exactly do you mean by "waking up"? Is-ness neither excludes nor includes, it just Is :)

Is dissolving all defense mechanisms really a good thing? :)
I did not however, take it personally and feel an angry sense of judgment toward those I interacted with. Well... not usually. It is after all, a work in progress.
Good for you :)
Do I believe that I am a man?
What do you exactly mean by "am"? :) Can you really tell who you are? One day I can tell you: "I am this". Another day I can tell you "I am that". And yet another day I can't tell you who or what exactly I am. In a way, I'm a "spirit" (Ego with capital 'E'; Self). There is also pure awareness in which "I am". And in a way, "I'm" a man with a body :) I can also say - "I am that contraction" :)
We all hold countless beliefs. Some serve us, others inhibit.
Why would we held beliefs that don't serve us? :) What for? :)
Again, primary to most other beliefs is who/what we 'think' we are.
I don't know and I don't truly understand that statement "I am this or that" :) I can create some self-referencing but it feels kinda virtual :)

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Re: Why to trust Eckhart Tolle?

Post by Webwanderer » Mon May 28, 2018 10:29 pm

I believe that so many happy faces is a sign of a playful nature. :D But I do admire the amount of effort to put all that together. :mrgreen:

WW

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