The world is getting much better

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weichen
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The world is getting much better

Post by weichen » Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:29 pm

Eckhart pointed out the human insanity that killed many millions of people in the last century. But the world population is many billions more now. Life expectancy is almost doubled when compared to 1900. In the big picture, it is a much better world.

Most credit should probably go to the human mind (a.k.a. ego, painbody, etc), its positive effect way outweight its side effect. Moreover, its positive effect is expanding exponentially, and its negative side effect become noticed and may be easily constrained as more and more people get enlightened.

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mccpcorn
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Post by mccpcorn » Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:15 pm

I'm not sure I can agree with your interpretation.

The mind wishes to survive. If you consider the collective pain body what is a better way to thrive than to generate more humans who will suffer?

Those on this world do not live in harmony, and the gross imbalance between humanity and the rest of nature causes severe damage to the biosphere.

Many millions have died in war, and this has served to brake population growth in some respects, but the deaths caused massive pain, and the memory of that pain survives in the collective pain body.

Until we can learn to remember the past without it generating the anger and sadness and hatred it does today then it will remain an obstacle to enlightenment.

The death of millions hasn't solved anything. It's merely been a safety valve that has prevented the whole system from destablising decades ago. Those in the Western World live longer and have a higher standard of living, but populations are declining because it is preferable for people to indulge the desire for the material than to have kids. The kids that are born are born into pain because many parents carry on as if their kids aren't really there.

Obesity, smoking and drinking, drug taking, casual sex, violence, general ill health - these are all symptoms of an deep underlying problem with humanity. They're the cracks in the pressure cooker of human existance. The more governments try to clamp down the lid on that pressure cooker to keep things under control, without addressing the fundmental cause, then the more of these cracks will appear. The more the problems will manifest, and in increasingly bizarre ways.

When you do the right thing for the wrong reasons, then the action becomes corrupted, and ultimately self destructive. Much good IS done in this world but the motives are wrong. Ultimately nothing truly good can arise out of these motives: to possess more, to be better than others, to be remembered.

Enlightenment is advancement without struggle. You do what is necessary, no more no less. It can be hard, but the internal struggle, that manifests itself as pain, does not linger the same way. In that way we can honour the struggle without feeling bitter about the losses and sacrifices made.

innermusiq
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eh!

Post by innermusiq » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:22 am

My understanding is , the ego/ painbody can't be fixed and all effort is a band aid attempt, which the ego loves to take credit for .

Dissolving the ego and painbody is the way to go not try to fix it. ??

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Re: eh!

Post by kiki » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:25 am

all quotes from innermusiq: My understanding is , the ego/ painbody can't be fixed

No... who would do the fixing but ego itself.
and all effort is a band aid attempt, which the ego loves to take credit for .
All effort arises out of the ego. Ego takes credit for everything; that's how it manages to stay in control.
Dissolving the ego and painbody is the way to go not try to fix it. ??
What dissolves is the attachment to ego; when that attachment dissolves painbody dissolves as well. When ego is realized not to be what you are the stories it spins, which create the painbody, are no longer believed in so they no longer have the impact they once did. The inertia of the storyteller has been interrupted by the light of consciousness/You. After a while "stories" of all kinds no longer arise, and when they do they are seen for what they are.

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eh!

Post by innermusiq » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:47 am

eh! I need to re read PON. So thats the plan.
Last edited by innermusiq on Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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mccpcorn
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Re: eh!

Post by mccpcorn » Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:51 am

innermusiq wrote:My understanding is , the ego/ painbody can't be fixed and all effort is a band aid attempt, which the ego loves to take credit for .

Dissolving the ego and painbody is the way to go not try to fix it. ??
What he said. :lol:

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Post by Jadecham » Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:56 pm

I've often wondered about the ego myself.
Is it really what's causing all the problems?
Can you ever really be free of it and would you even want to be?
The word "ego" comes from the Greek word "Εγω" - I, Me, Myself.
Ego, as I understand it then, is the sense of self that we all have.

And (although I know this flies in the face of thousands of years of spiritual enlightenment dogma) what's so wrong with having a healthy sense of self?
The key word here being healthy!
I'm just going to go way out on a limb here and say that it seems at least possible that the ego is not to blame but diseases of the ego are.
Maybe trying to desolve your ego into the universal consciousness permenantly is simply not something we are capable of. I say "permenantly" because I'm aware that many spiritual seekers can reach a state of deep vibrational harmony with the universal consciousness but only in times of meditation and - even then - not always.

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Post by mccpcorn » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:56 pm

Jadecham wrote:I've often wondered about the ego myself.
Is it really what's causing all the problems?
Can you ever really be free of it and would you even want to be?
The word "ego" comes from the Greek word "Εγω" - I, Me, Myself.
Ego, as I understand it then, is the sense of self that we all have.

And (although I know this flies in the face of thousands of years of spiritual enlightenment dogma) what's so wrong with having a healthy sense of self?
The key word here being healthy!
I'm just going to go way out on a limb here and say that it seems at least possible that the ego is not to blame but diseases of the ego are.
Maybe trying to desolve your ego into the universal consciousness permenantly is simply not something we are capable of. I say "permenantly" because I'm aware that many spiritual seekers can reach a state of deep vibrational harmony with the universal consciousness but only in times of meditation and - even then - not always.
Don't forget, we are talking about 'ego' in the context as ET defines it, not necessarily it's historical meaning.

You could just as easily label the mind-created possessing entity a monster, if you feel that is a more suitable definition you can relate to.

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Post by heidi » Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:08 pm

It's not to vilify the ego but to see it for what it is, an outdated survival system that we evolved to identify with as a "sense of self". I slay the beast, feed the village, feel pretty good about "myself". Men have been historically identified with it in that sort of way.

It's not the ego itself that causes the problem (the ego serves us in many positive ways just as other parts of our mind do), it's the identifying with it that causes the pain. A little bit of consciousness goes a long way with that old thing hanging around in the ether of your thoughts, trying to manifest itself as You ;) And even more interesting is the more you see it, and just let it be, the less power it has. It's all about power. :)
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Post by eseward » Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:33 pm

It's not the ego itself that causes the problem... it's the identifying with it that causes the pain.
Exactly! (Took me a number of years to understand this. Duh! :))

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Stock price of Earth

Post by weichen » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:10 am

If "Earth" is a publicly traded in the Universe, its stock price probably has been doubling every ten years in the last century.

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Post by Jadecham » Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:50 pm

" And even more interesting is the more you see it, and just let it be, the less power it has".
I think that's what I was trying to get at but you said it much better than I could have. If you're struggling with your ego - who's doing the struggling and to what end? Just become aware of it and let it be. :D

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Post by Jadecham » Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:53 pm

How'd I manage to screw up the quote? Sorry. :oops:

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Post by Jadecham » Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:59 pm

I also apologize to weichen for hi-jacking the thread.
Yes, I agree; the world is becoming a better place all the time for many people. But there are still a lot of curves in the road and people sometimes get derailed trying to navigate them.

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Post by Ives » Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:07 pm

The ego has to be transcended, not destroyed.

What does "transcend" mean?
It means to incorporate and move beyond.

Just as the sub-atomic particles are not destroyed with the creation of the atom. The atom is not destroyed with the creation of the molecule. The molecule is not destroyed with the creation of the cell. The cell is not destroyed with the creation of the organ. The organ is not destroyed with the creation of the organism. The organism (body) is not destroyed with the creation of society. Society is not destroyed with the creation of the biosphere. And so on.

Internally we (should) move from pre-ego to ego to transcended ego.


(With thanks to Ken Wilber).

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