Reality?

Talk about anything Tolle-related here.
ib42
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Reality?

Post by ib42 » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:44 am

There is such a lot of verbiage here! It's seems childish to keep talking about enlightenment ad nauseum. Getting to the truth or enlightenment should not be such a struggle, surely! And my personal gripe is, why do these men and women (spiritual teachers) have to charge such exorbitant rates for appearances and DVDs? Ultimately they all end up very rich and satisfied with their success. Their credibility would be greatly enhanced by giving a free talk every month in a different city, thereby letting their flame ignite fires of enlightenment in their disciples. Tolle likes to drive his SUV and drink starbucks coffee! So would I, but I can't afford it. The manifested is what it's really all about..cold, hard cash!!

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din
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Post by din » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:50 pm

Hi 42,
Getting to the truth or enlightenment should not be such a struggle, surely!
It's the struggle itself that prevents you from seeing that you already are realized.

Drop the search.
:)

ib42
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Post by ib42 » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:06 pm

I know I sounded bitter and negative, and not a little envious. Thanks for the reply. My biggest block is an inability to give up the struggle. My 'pain body' seems to be so strongly me that I have nothing but pain and depression. My life situation has a LOT to do with this, and the teaching addreses this quite directly. Then why can't I surrender and accept? I am 64, and living a difficult life, having achieved no solid retirement status. Living just above the poverty level, and caring for my aged mother in a senior home has pulled me down to a dark, scary place inside.
When I first read PON, I was very uplifted, but it seems to have been temporary, and now I feel down on myself all the time for not being able to say yes to my situation. Perhaps there are some who just don't 'get' it.

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Post by aanwezigheid » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:22 pm

Hey ib42,

Wow, you're 64? That's a huge difference with me, I'm 21 :). Maybe we could ask ourself why I would make an effort to give you some advice but ideas about age difference and stuff like that are just stupid ideas who are not worthy to struggle with.

You are struggling? Well, join the club :D. I am too you know. On different matters than you are as I can see in your post. Each has its own pain body and the general point about it: acceptance of it.

Decide to love your pain. It is a part of you. By resisting you will never win. Maybe we should consider to write this on the wall of our room. Every thought and emotion creates certain circumstances so resistance won't do us any good.

Pain is a sign of your body to draw your attention to a certain thing in your life. YOUR PAIN BODY IS ASKING FOR YOUR ATTENTION! Give it your attention. Care for it like you care for your aged mother. Love it like you love your old mother or like you love someone else. It is a part of you, so stop resisting it.

YOUR world is only in YOUR WORLD. Do not believe it is outside of yourself. We were raised in a society in a certain way. A lot of reactions and emotions are actually learned by looking how our parents, friends and other people react on circumstances like you are experiencing them now.

Remember that a lesson will repeat itself in different shapes untill you learned from it. Then you can move on to the next lesson.

Pain is a way of the universe to attract to attention and to point at a inner problem. So what do you have to do in the end? Draw all your attention to it.

We can hate it or love it, but love is the only force in this case.

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Post by kiki » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:12 pm

Don't be so hard on yourself, ib42, because that will only add to the story. Someone who is 64 has more years of conditioning to see through than someone who is younger - the longer one lives the more ingrained the condtioning becomes. Every time you recognize that you have been hooked back into conditioning weakens it. That's the way it works. As long as you keep catching yourself you'll wake up. Don't look at falling back as some sort of "failure", but rather as the natural course awakening takes. At some point unconsciously falling back into conditioning is overcome more quickly as awakening stabilizes.

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Re: Reality?

Post by phil » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:34 am

Hi IB,
ib42 wrote:There is such a lot of verbiage here! It's seems childish to keep talking about enlightenment ad nauseum.
Ha, good one, you catch on quick. Yes, it can be childish, but for we typoholic pontificators, it's also fun.
ib42 wrote:And my personal gripe is, why do these men and women (spiritual teachers) have to charge such exorbitant rates for appearances and DVDs?
You've come to the right place! Almost all of us here consider ourselves teachers, and we don't charge a dime. But, you do have to put up with quite a verbiage barrage, and you probably get what you pay for. :-)

Sorry, I don't mean to make light of your situation. I was moved by the frankness of your post, and your service to your mother.

If you can bring some comfort to her, perhaps you can do the same for yourself?

Can you grant yourself one minute a day during which you don't carry these burdens?

Perhaps while you're walking the dog, or doing some other routine errand. Just a minute. That's all.

It won't hurt anything to not think about the challenges you face for one minute a day. For one minute, find something nice to think about, or if you can, stop thinking.

If you're serious about not suffering, work at this one minute, until you get the habit. You deserve it.

Then try two. Maybe three. See where you can take it.

Free advice, guaranteed to be worth what you paid for it. :-)

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Post by wwooten » Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:53 am

IB, I feel your pain.....actually I feel my own pain, your post simply reminds me that I am powerless over the activation of my pain body. As each person has commented, suffering and pain are part of the process....it's part of life itself.....life takes the form of pain and suffering sometimes.....

With that realization, what's next??.....practice...practice...practice....shift attention over and over again into the inner body, into the indwelling presence of God....

No secrets....we all have a pain body, we all suffer....we all are at different stages of anchoring our attention within the now....within the Conscious Presence which withdraws energy from the pain and suffering we all have....

Suffering and pain are the "signals", the "signposts" that indicate we have AGAIN gotten lost into the mind stream....oops!....time to shift attention....AGAIN....

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Post by eseward » Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:33 am

Nice post, wwooten.

ib42
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Post by ib42 » Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:42 am

Is it possible that some form of prayer to Being is in order, or are we left to make the shift, or the change in perspective on our own? I've never believed in loud praying and parrotlike grace before meals stuff, but just wondering if the 'ineffable' source of all would be inclined to lend a hand up, so to speak.

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Post by phil » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:11 am

ib42 wrote:Is it possible that some form of prayer to Being is in order,
I have no idea really, but my sense is that Whoever tends to help those who are already helping themselves.

My personal inclination is that Whoever is not a fellow easily bluffed or BSed.

I believe He/She smiles down patiently as we tell ourselves fibs about things, as we all seem to do pretty regularly. You know how you quietly smile to yourself when your friend tells you they are going on a diet, for 319th time? Like that.

When Whoever see us fully engaged with a serious plan of action towards some goal that is worthwhile, I believe our chances of receiving assistance go way up.

No guarantees though, as sometimes what we're sure we want is not really the best choice.

All of this could be completely wrong, but that's how it feels to me.

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wwooten
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Post by wwooten » Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:45 am

Prayer is an attempt at creating space between the form....the pain and suffering...thought stream......future...past.....and who I am in my fulness....formlessness.

Once my formless energy has loosened the grip....the clutch of form....there is enough space for formlessness to slide out of the garment....I happen to be clothed in......pain and suffering....thought stream....future...past...etc...

Space is the womb of creation..........and it's energy and intelligence can move more freely into and through the body and attract higher vibratory circumstances....situations...and conditions....

I feel it can benefit.....

ib42
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Post by ib42 » Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:59 am

Thank you all so much, and keep the posts coming. In the final analysis, it's communication between us humans that makes life worthwhile. I am having some small, very small breakthroughs by the age-old method of 'Let go and let God'. My hesitation in using that word, god, is for all the same reasons so many of us reject biblical dogma. Still, It's too obvious that there MUST be a spiritual side to all this bs we call life, and I must continue to seek congruence between my real self and that perfect stillness. seek is the key word. I know Tolle wd. say 'Why seek what you have already?' If I have it, then the task of uncovering and discovering the wholeness is mine. It won't happen suddenly to me in all likelihood, and in that respect, Tolle was 'chosen'. This is also a very delicate point for me. Why Tolle suddenly? Hasn't my suffering pleased the powers that be enough to grant me the same gift? The same right to enlightenment?

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wwooten
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Post by wwooten » Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:12 am

Nice Question!

I understand the admission price to the awakening of Eckhart was.....

......suicidal, madness....he was bordering on the brink of insanity.....mental hospital insanity.....a depth of suffering that I could only imagine.......

Since it's not personal..........it was simply, that particular body brain organism and it's birthspot...position....in the functioning totality......

.....each body brain organism is a unique piece in the grand collective puzzle....each with it's own pain body, genetic makeup, intellectual, emotional and bodily expression.....

behind it all....at the ground of each of us....is the same substance, the same beingness....the same consciousness awakening to Itself where it discovers Itself.....

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Post by Tin Soul » Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:40 pm

aanwezigheid wrote:Decide to love your pain. It is a part of you. By resisting you will never win. Maybe we should consider to write this on the wall of our room. Every thought and emotion creates certain circumstances so resistance won't do us any good.
In general, I agree 100%. Besides, it's probably what ET would say! I only have this one thing to add as a sort of a caveat--
I absolutely love the music group Three Days Grace. Especially I love their first album, but the second was good too. I use the word love because 'like' just doesn't convey how their music grabs me. Only one problem-- their music is very depressing. Their song 'I Hate Everything About You' is a good example of what I'm talking about. I have found that, at least for awhile, I need to give up Three Days Grace, so that I don't descend back into the spiral.
So, while we shouldn't actively fight our pain body, we should also not try to feed it. It's like when an alcoholic is first getting sober. They might need to cut off some friendships with people who will just try to get them back into drinking. And while the recovering alcoholic dearly loves the atmosphere of his favorite bar, guess what? Gotta sacrifice, and find a new place to hang out.
So my advice would be to try to find some practical ways of purposefully cutting off the negative fuel and try to find some positive fuel, e.g. listening to Jazz, no grunge or downtempo.

ET talked about gateways to the now, ways to bring yourself back to the present. These ways are 1) to try to sense your inner body, 2) to try to listen for the silence, and 3) to just accept what is going on right now, by saying YES to whatever is going on. Perhaps the answer lies somewhere in here. One thing we do know is that trying to think of a solution won't work, because thought processes are creating the problem to begin with.

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Post by yougarksooo » Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:14 pm

The world frustrates us until we realize the frustration is unnecessary. Then peace sets in. I don't mean to say we need "time" to wake up. But some, including me, appear to need to have suffered in order to be here...in the now. Even Tolle says that the shift is gradual. He impliedly is saying that being frustrated is part of the gradual shift. The only access to being is, of course, now. One thing to remember is not to make frustration into a problem. That is more self-created suffering. The mind can get trapped into creating and maintaining a past-based self (including a frustrated self) which believes it can't become free until the frustration is lifted at some future point. That is maddening and IS the cause of the suffering itself, even though it appears to the mind that some solution is being worked out in that thought pattern.

I heard someone on here, I think it was Joel, say something that sums it up for me. He said the source of all feeling is within you. The source of all frustration is within you. It is not in the various things out there that appear to frustrate us (including spiritual teachers who go to Starbucks :))

Once we realize essentially that all pain is self created, we can open up that space of being inside and allow the forms to move around, through, into, out of us without trying to attach ourselves to them or find ourselves in them (and that includes cash). We become that clear space. The self-created suffering is that bundle of thoughts known as past, future, and resistance to now. That is "me" and is the source of my pain until I wake up out of that dream.

I agree that there are a lot of words on here. But if using words for each other helps us to guide each other to peace and being (or God, for those who prefer that word), great!!!! Had Buddha, or Tolle, or Jesus, or Adyashanti never said a word, I might not have been able to even say this or comprehend what others are saying on here.
"When people ask me who they are or who God is, I smile inside and whisper to the light: there you go again . . . pretending."

Adya

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