UNCONDITIONAL LOVE - What does it look like in relationships

Talk about anything Tolle-related here.
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yougarksooo
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Post by yougarksooo » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:14 pm

Thanks Andy, I did find some stuff on web about him.
Love is a result of presence.........whatever arises in the inner dimension (feelings) in response to the outer dimension (relationship).....is dissolved in presence.....and out of presence arises the appropriate and effective response......that there is no rightness and wrongness to it.....
Yes, nicely put. To live in the state of not knowing is helpful in relationships of course. Living in ego or self, it is me against my partner is some sense. Who is right? Will he act out again? Will I feel bad or diminished by what he does or says? Those are questions which I used to carry around unconsciously because I was living in past, future, resistance to now (which could be called the state of knowing---mind).

Living in the state of not knowing (presence, or consciousness without thought) my partner, myself, and our relationship are not categorized, conceptualized and limited in that way. We are free to interact in innocence. Whatever arises is felt and, as you say, dissolves into more presence. I can't know my partner or myself through thought. In fact, through thought, I keep false aspects of both of us alive. What is utterly fascinating and wonderful is that in the state of not knowing, I tend to hurt him less and there is much less negative reaction coming from either of us. I thought the state of not knowing would cause pain (that is what my mind believed) because, "how would I know how to act or what to do if I don't think about it first?" That was a silly question my mind had conjured up to keep the false self and painbody alive, and as a result live in more pain.

There is no problem, including in my relationships. Situations to deal with, yes, but no problem as long as I'm in being. As Tolle says, nothing of value is left. I have found that there is more "value" to all of life in that state.
"When people ask me who they are or who God is, I smile inside and whisper to the light: there you go again . . . pretending."

Adya

AndyD
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Post by AndyD » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:44 pm

Ironically, a 'spritual relationship' is what I've found the hardest and on days it can be sheer hell (I'm leaving out the fact that when the emotion is not about it is sheer bliss) . But, this is a different kind of hell in which we gradually burn up the past in us (karma, pain body etc) and do I find it worthwhile (unlike the pain I have experienced in 'normal' relationships). This said, my partner now feels it too much and 'it shouldn't be this way' but according to an enlightened individual I know this is exactly the way it should be. So, maybe she'll start to see it as you do yougarksooo and continue to persevere.

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yougarksooo
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Post by yougarksooo » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:42 pm

Do I understand you correctly to say that your nonreaction is seen by your partner as a problem in your relationship? If so, I do see what you mean. I experienced the same thing.

My partner is not nearly as serious about becoming present as I am. Yet my becoming present has led almost automatically to more presence in him. And he has benefitted by it. He has experience less pain body. But I've also seen him lose a bit of himself, his direction, his reactions. To a mind-identified person, losing one's ego is loss of self and very threatening.

He recently said that he has lost sight of where he is going. He is now talking about getting a job in a different town. Some of this is a result of the fact that his job is just getting old. But some of it is that there is more presence in the relationship, and therefore less self as that term is usually used. As a result of less ego, and resistance from me, he is less able to define himself through reaction, complaints, demands etc. You can't argue with a present person, as Tolle says.

Yet all the while he and I are closer now than ever. We love each other deeply. But the loss of self is difficult for him to make sense of I think.

We spent years reacting to one another. And through that, we were strengthening who we thought we were -- ego. Now, through, presence I'm experiencing peace and although he is too, he hasn't experienced the more dramatic shift in consciousness that allows him to see himself as the alert presence or awareness.

I feel as though this has something to do with the relationship possibly ending with his new job. He seems to be seeking some definition of himself through the world, through work. A new place to live, a new job whatever. And I'm just interested in coming home to who I really am. Those are different paths, so to speak.

Some relationships just do not last through the shift because only one partner has shifted dramatically. The other is still locked in the patterns of ego, with nothing to react to anymore. Tolle talks about this and I believe my relationship is going through that. And at the same time, our intimacy is stronger than ever. Strange....
"When people ask me who they are or who God is, I smile inside and whisper to the light: there you go again . . . pretending."

Adya

AndyD
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Post by AndyD » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:48 pm

yougarksooo,

There is much I can relate to in your wonderfull post.

I think she believes she is more serious about the pursuit of conciousness than she really is. She slips easily into the games etc that I have encountered in previous relationships - mindreading, manipulation, double standards, etc. its just that the terminology used to make her right and me wrong are different.

I no longer see her actions as who she is and if she says she is dealing with something thats good enough for me (these are 2 big things I've gotton from this relationship). However, if I do something 'wrong' it is becoming inceasingly unnaceptable (despite me looking at what I've done immedietly) and she has even begun creating situations to trip me up.

When she is present she will admit to this and that I simply don't fit in with her story of unloved and hard done-by. However, when unconcious, the reasons will come in (backed by spiritual doctorine) of why I did something wrong and that she doesn't have to accept that from anyone - this can last for hours for something as simple as my attention wandering when I'm tired.

Of course the great times are great and I feel so much peace with her that I've never felt with anyone - we just feel like we are one. This is a fantastic experience for me and I've let go of so much of the old conditioning through it.

But as you allude to, there comes a point where one partner has shifted more than the other so they do not last. Reading this one may think that the more concious would not want to be with the other but I think its the other way round. I have no spiritual league table so am happy to stay with her and continue to grow so we'll see what happens.

Watching this situation and emotion inside me is extremely painfull - sometimes its like I'm dieing. But, as you will understand, when one disolves this everything is so much better :D

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yougarksooo
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Post by yougarksooo » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:05 am

When she is present she will admit to this and that I simply don't fit in with her story of unloved and hard done-by. However, when unconcious, the reasons will come in (backed by spiritual doctorine) of why I did something wrong and that she doesn't have to accept that from anyone - this can last for hours for something as simple as my attention wandering when I'm tired.
Yes. It is amazing how presence eliminates those games and reasons you've mentioned. I spend time with some people who, although interested in spiritual matters, find no drive to become present. Yet they want all the problems associated with self-centeredness and ego to go away. In some sense, you could say they want to experience the good egoic feelings (praise, recognition, being right) and get rid of the bad (pain body, frustration, jealousy). But we can't have our cake and eat it too, so to speak.

We either become present or we don't. And it appears that if we don't, we continue playing the games with each other, all the various methods to strengthen and repair the "little me" that gets so easily hurt. We have no choice really. This is why it can't be taken personally. It truly is just human pain, until we step out of it.

With regard to romantic relationships, either the other partner will continue to become present or he or she will become dissatisfied or frustrated with nonreaction. I wouldn't trade it for the world---the shift I mean---because the possibility of two people becoming present together, and experiencing love without the egoic games is beautiful. And of course if one partner never really shifts, that is ok too. Everything is as it is. We either stay or go, right? If we stay, we accept fully everything about the other person. All else is madness. Isn't that what unconditional love is?

Thanks for the conversation.
"When people ask me who they are or who God is, I smile inside and whisper to the light: there you go again . . . pretending."

Adya

kakafoni
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Post by kakafoni » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:37 pm

i have been looking up information on unconditional love and have found this thread to be very helpful.

yougarksooo,
your last paragraph sums it up beautifully.
thank you.

AndyD
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Post by AndyD » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:15 am

yougarksooo puts fantastically into words what my recent experience has revealed to me. Before meeting my present partner such an idea would have been doubtfull to me - but now, by feelings and behaviour towards my partner are so natural and free.

For example, I used to unconciously hold a tally of what I have done for my partner and what she has done for me yet with this partner I took her to Paris for her birthday and thought nothing of it other than a beautifull shared experience that was so enhanced by her been with me. Each time I do something like this I feel I'm letting go of the old rigid, insecure self.

Of course I may be hurt but I'm reminded of something Gangaji says "what does an undefended heart feel like?' It is this dropping of the defenses that allow me to truly love and to be truly loved.

weird_andy
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Post by weird_andy » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:40 am

Patience is important when one senses onset of anger,
ie step back from that verbal onslaught,consider that your partner
is in pain, when you practice patience you are at the same time practicing
compassion.

lotus
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Post by lotus » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:38 am

Excellent discussion, thankyou! :D

aanwezigheid
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Post by aanwezigheid » Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:38 pm

yougarksooo wrote:And of course if one partner never really shifts, that is ok too. Everything is as it is. We either stay or go, right? If we stay, we accept fully everything about the other person. All else is madness. Isn't that what unconditional love is?
Beautifully said :). You're truly great in describing and explaining these things, but this is only possible when you already experienced it. Happy for you :wink:

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yougarksooo
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Post by yougarksooo » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:15 pm

Beautifully said . You're truly great in describing and explaining these things, but this is only possible when you already experienced it. Happy for you
Thanks.

Byron Katie is very helpful in sweeping away any and all cobwebs which exist in a relationship and block unconditional love. Just putting that info out there for anyone who hasn't read her book. It's particularly good for relationships and helps in areas where Tolle just touches on.

Check out "Loving What Is" or "I Need Your Love -- Is That True?"

Not self-help stuff. Pure presence practice with an eye on dropping all stories that don't square with reality.
"When people ask me who they are or who God is, I smile inside and whisper to the light: there you go again . . . pretending."

Adya

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