Life purpose

Talk about anything Tolle-related here.
User avatar
yougarksooo
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:14 pm
Location: Indiana

Post by yougarksooo » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:37 pm

I stand still
And let the joy of the work
Sink in.
This is the part that stood out to me.
"When people ask me who they are or who God is, I smile inside and whisper to the light: there you go again . . . pretending."

Adya

Hiren Shah
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:58 pm
Location: Delhi
Contact:

Post by Hiren Shah » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:38 pm

I can understand people not wanting ET to be a career coach but I don't know why two mutually exclusive thngs- inner stillness and life's work or purpose should ever be mixed up. ET has said that if there is a problem - either accept it, change it or remove yourself from it- Maybe I should have taken Bill Gates example instead of Henri Ford. Now let us assume ET and Bill meet up at Harvard which Bill left to pursue his passion. What do you think he would have said. Don't try to change the world- be present and still and accept the world as it is?-be satsified If Bill had done that, you and me may not have been in a position to discusss on this wonderful platform accross continents, a facility that none of our ancestors could have dreamt of.

I think ET would have said something like this:-

If you feel strongly about your purpose Bill, follow it but always remain present and rooted in your being (remove yourself- it would be quite strange to say that be present and happy more than you are and don't try to change the world or follow your purpose ).

If you do not like Harvard, surrender to the moment, be present always and try to be relaxed and alert and finish your education. (Accept it or go to some other place if you can but always be rooted in the present)

To the extent you can, try to give your humble suggestions as to how Harvard can be improved but always rooted in the being and being in the present. As the book "A new Earth" conveys that ego is reflected more in the way you say things.

Dr Deeoak Chopra in his book "The seven spiritual laws of success" talks about intent and desire. He says that desire is attention with attachment and intent is desire without attachment to the outcome. Intention with detachment leads to present moment awareness. The intent maybe for the future but the attention is in the present. Accept the present and intend the future. The future is something you can create through detached intention but you should never struggle against the present.

Specifially he says "If you want a successful career, for example, you go into the gap(stillness, silence, presence) with that intention, and the intention will already be there as a faint fkicker in your awarness." We have a practice in yoga called "Yog Nidra" where after relaxing all parts of the body one is supposed to make a "Sankalp" or "Intent" as Dr Chopra says.

There is a saying "God pusnishes the intention, not the action". It is the motive with which your pursue your purpose which determines whether or not it is an egoic act or not. There is nothing wrong if you do it for the love of it which a majority of people probably begin(how are they to know whether it will be successful or not) but somewhere along the line money takes over in many cases. In my view, even then it is not wrong as long as you are rooted in being and presence. Wealth earned with the wrong motives is wrong.

One thing deserves mention- Saying things like if you want this, you give and you will recieve- it does not always happen. It is beyond control and ideally one should give without any motive - ET has also said likewise.

Enough verbalization. Following" Gaiety is wiser that wisdon", let us end on a humorous note:-

Though I believe in ET, To be as successful as Bill
I would be willing to follow many a strenous drill
Being rich and successful has its own thrill
Resisting that requires a strong will
I don't mind foregoing being still

Jokes apart, we need people like Bill Gates who are rooted in their inner being. (Maybe then, they would create the foundation right from the beginning)ET is absolutely right when he says that normally awakening arises out of severe adversity in many. If awakening could be made possible proactively instead of reaction to adversity and combined with talent, we would indeed have "A new Earth"

User avatar
Seancho
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:44 am
Contact:

Post by Seancho » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:42 pm

Hiren Shah wrote:I can understand people not wanting ET to be a career coach but I don't know why two mutually exclusive thngs- inner stillness and life's work or purpose should ever be mixed up.
Hi Hiran. Are you sure that there must be a thing called a life purpose that is separate from inner stillness?

If the life purpose you are recommending is exclusive of inner stillness, is it worth the pain of worrying about it? Is it worth the price of losing stillness?

ET and Krishamurti sometimes describe stillness as a vast Intelligence. Which do you think might put your life to better use, the thinking you that works to map out a life purpose for the future, or the effortless Intelligence that is revealed when we realize the completeness of who we already are?

We humans have been honing the planning mind for millenia, and as you point out, weve become quite skillful at shaping the world to our material advantage. But look around you, do the people you meet seem happy?

Can we continue to exclude the inner from the outer? Havent we tried that for long enough? Is it working? Are we there yet? Ive yet to meet a single person that has planned their way to peace.

So I give up. Maybe there is another way...where inner stillness and outer plan are no longer exclusive. Plan and stillness the same.

The mere fact that life exists is astounding to me. All our planning, and a tiny fingernail is a greater feat of engineering than anything the the planning mind ever created. A tiny fingernail created with no effort. What if we can tap into that Intelligence? What if we ARE that Intelligence?

Which is a more satisfying way to live -- to have a life purpose, or to be the purpose of life itself?
If you stop believing in fear, is it still scary?

User avatar
yougarksooo
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:14 pm
Location: Indiana

Post by yougarksooo » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:52 pm

There is a saying "God pusnishes the intention, not the action". It is the motive with which your pursue your purpose which determines whether or not it is an egoic act or not. There is nothing wrong if you do it for the love of it which a majority of people probably begin(how are they to know whether it will be successful or not) but somewhere along the line money takes over in many cases. In my view, even then it is not wrong as long as you are rooted in being and presence. Wealth earned with the wrong motives is wrong.
Right, but its not just money taking over. There is something even closer that can happen when we aren't fully present, which is attachment to identity. Before I had a big shift, I remember being at work and totally believing that I was an attorney. I mean I truly thought that was who I was. And I got all wrapped up into that. I would compare myself to others, to clients, to judges, to other attorneys. I was lost in the idea that I was an attorney representing clients in a legal system. Now, all of that is true in a time-based conventional sense. But its an illusion actually. The roles, identities, titles are all illusions. And we get caught up into that, believing that is who we are. Then its about getting something from the title or identity.

And when people didn't treat me according to my identity, I became upset. I reacted. I had bought into the illusion and when you did not buy into whom I thought I was, I had to set you straight. I suffered. I remember days when work took me over, my mind was going a mile a minute, it was like I was on speed and very confused. This is because the role took me over. It is very easy to go from that to believing that this identity, this career will fulfill me. I then look to the future to strengthen this identity.

Then the shift happened, and I realized I had been living a lie. For those who have experienced that, you know there is no need to explain what I mean.

I never make the mistake that I actually am an attorney now, or any number of other identities, personal or collective. Nor do I seek fulfillment in the future on that level.

My way now is to drop the identity, title, role, label, thoughts about work, and just enjoy the work---the doing---without looking for the result, what it can give me, not only in terms of money but also strengthening of an illusory set of thoughts about self (that is what self is, right? an illusory set of thoughts). Actually this is my natural state, so I'm not setting out to drop these things. The false falls away naturally when presence comes.

Just my experience.... I certainly don't claim to hold the truth.
"When people ask me who they are or who God is, I smile inside and whisper to the light: there you go again . . . pretending."

Adya

too haht tzay

awakening...

Post by too haht tzay » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:56 pm

:)


Eckhart mentioned it.

The way to wake up to your life's purpose is to not get your

identity from your outter form.

The way to wake up to your life's purpose is to get your

identity from your inner, infinite formless essence...love.


Your inner purpose, love...is infinite.

Your outter purpose in form...is temporary.


And it takes no time to get to your life's purpose.

Every person on the planet has love in them.

Love is already in every person on the planet

and it is there in it's fullness. It's there in everyone,

and it's already complete.

You don't need time to get to love which is already here

completely and in the fullness of its essence Now.




The universe is made up of electricity-positive and negative.

You cannot escape the polar opposites of birth/death or hot/cold

or up/down.

Eckhart said, "Whatever form this moment takes, even if

it comes in the form of death, accept it."


He said, "What is needed now is wisdom."


There are wise words written that say, "...the earth

was not created for nothing. It was created even to be inhabited."


Life has a purpose. The Maker said "the earth was not created

for nothing." We are here to allow the divine purpose to 'Be'

and 'Be' with the people we love.


That's why there's marriage and mommies and daddies and

sons and daughters and grandma's etc. :lol:


The reason angels fly is because they don't take themselves

too seriously.



:)

User avatar
yougarksooo
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:14 pm
Location: Indiana

Post by yougarksooo » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:04 pm

Thanks Too Haht

Well said. Love is.
"When people ask me who they are or who God is, I smile inside and whisper to the light: there you go again . . . pretending."

Adya

User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6852
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Post by Webwanderer » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:07 pm

You're a class act Seancho. I am enjoying your posts. :)

User avatar
yougarksooo
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:14 pm
Location: Indiana

Post by yougarksooo » Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:17 am

Ive yet to meet a single person that has planned their way to peace.
This is so strikingly truthful. A person could probably just read that sentence over and over and become present. The futility of all the planning and thinking. Until this is seen, it is hard to describe....
"When people ask me who they are or who God is, I smile inside and whisper to the light: there you go again . . . pretending."

Adya

Goldenflutist
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:43 am
Location: North America
Contact:

Post by Goldenflutist » Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:57 am

:cry:
Last edited by Goldenflutist on Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
A dog's eyes reflect the innocence and beauty of nature.

Hiren Shah
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:58 pm
Location: Delhi
Contact:

Post by Hiren Shah » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:01 pm

yougarksoo has written vey well on identity.

As for love and stillness and J. krishnamurthy, he has written that thought has limitation but love is supreme beyond all. Krishnamurthy generally writes on freedom from the known- the conditionied mind and man in relationship- to people, ideas and things- if deeper understanding is there,it facilitates being in the present , which, also he has expressed eloquently. He has also stressed the need for education to enable the child to find his right vocation in life. Like ET, he would not have mentioned this if they were not mutually exclusive. In his words "Only when there is an understanding of the totality of the mind, the unconsious and the conscious, is there a possibility of the mind's generation"

Well, that's what I have been trying to say. It so happens by coincidence that my latest article on Talent Management in an Indian HR Magazine has got published- the background is American(I love American HR books) but the examples are Indian- the world's oldest and largest democracies:-

http://wplay.wordpress.com/2007/07/13/t ... ng-an-art/

You can deicde for your self whether inner stilness(unconsicous mind) has a direct corelation with Talent or purpose in life which has more to do with the conscious mind. Apart from stillness, love and peace one has to have operational efficiency(talent) as well but without egoic identity which yougarksoo has explained so well.

User avatar
yougarksooo
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:14 pm
Location: Indiana

Post by yougarksooo » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:43 pm

Apart from stillness, love and peace one has to have operational efficiency(talent) as well but without egoic identity....
Yes. Well said. Thanks. Also, in my experience, the talent is a manifestation. Some are great mechanics, some are visual artists, others are chefs. When presence comes, something is acting through the person. A chef I know couldn't leave his personal self at the door of the kitchen, but when presence came in, he flourished at his job. It's amazing to watch this.

It's almost as if, at some point, there is no one there to take credit for any talent. It appears to me that once a certain "level" (don't like words like that) of awakening happens, the talent stops being used for purely selfish reasons, and there is this mysterious drive outward, maybe to help others, to inspire, to be with them in presence, to love. It's not me practicing law, or the chef cooking or the mechanic fixing cars. There is only doing, practicing, cooking. That is more than some guru phrase. That is very real. Once it is experienced, there is no reason to question it.

And whatever is doing this, is purely delighted in the doing. It loves what is. There can be a sense of total aliveness all over, while the doing is happening. Call it consciousness, whatever. It certainly isn't the "me" we all have been living with. It's at this point that I have trouble describing what is happening, both in me and friends, including people on here.

You see it on here when people express quite eloquently what is happening in them. Something is there, a mysterious and loving opening.
The "self" seems so petty in comparison, especially with its little egoic drive to be somebody, or achieve something through its talent.
"When people ask me who they are or who God is, I smile inside and whisper to the light: there you go again . . . pretending."

Adya

User avatar
Seancho
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:44 am
Contact:

Post by Seancho » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:03 pm

Theres certainly nothing wrong with planning, purpose or honing a talent. All very useful. Talent makes life enjoyable. So if I want more and better talent, what Im interested in is....where does talent come from?

Id say, the most talented thing I ever did was to grow the body that sits and types this message right now. Blood pumping, neurons firing. How the heck did I do that? I didnt even have to try. Where did that amazing talent come from?

Presence, peace, love, stillness, the inifinite...is this not the deep pool from which all talent is drawn? Still the mind, and we become the Talent that effortlessly creates the universe.
If you stop believing in fear, is it still scary?

Hiren Shah
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:58 pm
Location: Delhi
Contact:

Post by Hiren Shah » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:09 pm

Where does talent come from is a good question? I have read about career meditation in which people try to surrender and find their higher calling. Emerson once said “All great discoveries come from people whose feelings run ahead of their thinking”. I think that could be true though when you are present, neither thinking nor feeling are supposed to run so fast. ET has himself suggested deep breathing whenever this happens and Krishnamurthy has emphasized on thought, feeling and action. Being a writer and a poet, when my find becomes flooded with thoughts, I forget about ET and presence and note all the thoughts down because thoughts come in a blinding flash. If I try to be present, the flow of ideas becomes considerably slow and I feel that I may be losing out on ideas.
I am no poet laureate but I manage efforts like these:

http://www.poetseers.org/submissions/2006/hiren_shah/

I played lawn Tennis for several years but was not satisfied with the backhand(bane of many racquet games). My younger brother got it right in the first week itself without any coaching in such a brilliant manner that many players complimented him. My wife is qualified in English hons but it is me, an MBA who has written articles and poems for magazines and newspapers. Similarly, she does certain business work much better than I do. My father does much better trading in shares than me despite not having any formal training in Technical analysis(graphs) which I have. I once worked in a company where the rise of one person was much faster than four others though all of them were from the same batch from the same institute. Talent is more important than the tool(knowledge. God knows where it comes from but it should be harnessed. All the above no or knew nothing about presence.

From the last time I posted which was four five days ago, my son has suddenly started playing Table Tennis very well. God knows where that came from?. One definition that I read was that doing something well is skill, doing it consistently well is competency and when that combines with passion and liking, it is talent. Other is the competency cycle that is a path to spontaneous presence and talent:-

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Inner-Gam ... &id=485014


Some talent may surface when you are in the present moment as ET says and some like writing maybe otherwise- that is my experience.

User avatar
Seancho
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:44 am
Contact:

Post by Seancho » Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:24 pm

Hiren Shah wrote:my son has suddenly started playing Table Tennis very well. God knows where that came from?
exactly! :)

Writing is no different. Tell me, when the perfect phrase comes to mind, where does it come from? Almost like a thunderbolt, yes? From where that Inspiration?

Knowledge of presence has nothing to do with Presence. Presence itself is always there, never missing. You dont have to achieve it, or learn about it. In fact, 'knowledge of' is just a distraction.

As you say, training has little to do with it. Id say most talented people have no idea how they are able to do what they do.
If you stop believing in fear, is it still scary?

Hiren Shah
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:58 pm
Location: Delhi
Contact:

Post by Hiren Shah » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:54 am

Right you are seancho. The father of Management , Peter Drucker once said "Those who excel at something are rarely able to explain it" which corroborates the statesments of excellent sportsmen who are able to demonstrate but not able to explain.

Writing is generally different because verbalization is involved which ET says is the egoic unobserved mind. He says that presence and egoic mind cannot co-exist which is true. Most of the times I try "presence" and am watchful but when I get a flood of creative thoughts, I write them down first before trying to be present. I cannot say that Presence may be disadvantageous for all creative writers but that is how it is with me.

Post Reply