Life purpose

Talk about anything Tolle-related here.
weichen
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Post by weichen » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:03 pm

Hiren Shah wrote:Right you are seancho. The father of Management , Peter Drucker once said "Those who excel at something are rarely able to explain it" which corroborates the statesments of excellent sportsmen who are able to demonstrate but not able to explain.
Expert shooters in military rarely able to explain how they did it. Tony Robbins, a brain expert, was hired by military to train newbie soliders to shoot. This is what Tony did, he ask the expert shooters to go through the entire process of making a shot, but he interrupt the process at many mini intervals and ask them
what thought just flash through your mind?
what is your belief right now ?
what are you visualizing right now ?
how does your arm/hand/finger feel right now?

He was able to extract a bunch of these seemingly insignificant things and teach the newbie to think and feel exactly the same way as the expert shooters do, and he was able to greatly reduce the training time for shooting.

Hiren Shah
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Post by Hiren Shah » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:35 am

Very interesting- the emphasis on the word Now- shooting requires tremendous concentration and I am sure ET will be pleased.

What you have said reminds me of what India's greatest cricketers have said about this. For those who may not know, cricket is the most popular sport in India, a country with a billion plus population which is why cricketers are treated like moviestars.

Perhaps India's greatest batsman ever, Sachin Tendulkar while answering a question on his recent good performance in Bengladesh on how he felt about scoring easy runs against a not so formidable opposition, said " I never think of the opposition. To me, the next delivery is what alone matters. I treat each ball on its merit without bothering who the bowler is" His other great contemporary, India's cricket captain Rahul Dravid said recently" You can have all the experience in the world but everyone starts from zero. What really matters is not what you have done the past but what you do now" in the context of the present.

Sportsmen have to be totally focussed. The billiards champion that I mentioned earlier narrated in his book how lapse of concentration for a few moments cost a playera championship.

Reminds you of what Ralph Waldo Emerson said "Concentration is the secret of success in politcs, in war in all management of Human affairs"

When one is in one's chosen profession or sport, concentration or flow is spontaneous. Then there is conscious concentration which to my mind is ET's presence which one should practice throughout the day to enhance the natural flow. If only all this was taught formally in education- many problems would be nipped in the bud.

OnlyNow
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Post by OnlyNow » Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:25 am

Hi

this thread, that at times so intensly examines every syllable and aspect of its title reminds me of ET's utterings on analysis.

One thing he said with a wry look on his face ( in the findhorn retreat) that most analysis kills the thing its examining.

Surely this crawling over every aspect when you have already understood ( well, I guess maybe not) ET's message is all 'mind' stuff.

As ET remarks, (in a parody of the ego) in several of his discourses.

"Okay thats the secret of the Universe, whats next ?"
When the Pupil is ready the Master appears

Hiren Shah
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Post by Hiren Shah » Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:29 pm

I have said earlier that one should avoid too much verbalization but in a discussion it becomes inevitable. This is a discussion on life purpose in the context of ET's teachings and not on presence or higher consicousness.

J.krishnamurthy has also said that "The word is not the thing" but he has also pointed out that words are necessary to communicate. He speaks of the importance of looking at an issue from all points of view which can prevent what ET'says taking a strong mental position with any one opposite.

OnlyNow
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Post by OnlyNow » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:46 pm

I have said earlier that one should avoid too much verbalization but in a discussion it becomes inevitable.
You cannot have your cake and eat it.

This is a discussion on life purpose in the context of ET's teachings and not on presence or higher consicousness.
Is there truly a distinction?
J.krishnamurthy has also said that "The word is not the thing" but he has also pointed out that words are necessary to communicate. He speaks of the importance of looking at an issue from all points of view which can prevent what ET'says taking a strong mental position with any one opposite.
My view is that many of these discussions over-complicate something that is quite simple.

What comes through to me from this thread is the addiction of the mind to solve something that is beyond the mind.

When you view and discuss from the mind you can never find 'it.'

It is by the laying down of the mind whatever the subject, life purpose, awakening, enlightenment, whatever, that answers are realised even if its to realise that the question is just a 'mind' thing.

ET has said "the analysis of pointers is pointless"

Its like the 'portals' that ET mentions. You cannot practice going through a portal, you either go through or you don't.

Accessing silence or presence removes all questions
When the Pupil is ready the Master appears

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yougarksooo
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Post by yougarksooo » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:49 pm

My view is that many of these discussions over-complicate something that is quite simple.

What comes through to me from this thread is the addiction of the mind to solve something that is beyond the mind.
Very clear observation, OnlyNow. Only the false self would have a problem with what you've said. Who I really am sees the truth of it.

Simple. Always.

:)
"When people ask me who they are or who God is, I smile inside and whisper to the light: there you go again . . . pretending."

Adya

OnlyNow
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Post by OnlyNow » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:03 am

Hi yougarksooo

:)
When the Pupil is ready the Master appears

Hiren Shah
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Post by Hiren Shah » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:13 pm

Well, if it a question of having the cake and eating it too, why have a discussion forum at all?. Not only ET, all spiritual leaders exhort to find the answer for yourself and discover within yourself.. They are against philosophical discussions and verbal debates.. The “simple” issue about the outer purpose which is the primary purpose of this discussion has baffled mystics and spiritual teachers throughout the history of mankind and no so called vocational psychologist even in today’s world is anywhere close to the solution. Since ET has explained the inner purpose so well, I thought maybe he could have a go at the outer purpose as well.
Even I can say that being in the present is such a simple affair so why have a discussion forum in the first place. It is not rocket science is it?

The Dalai lama had once said that he is ever ready to change his opinion when he comes across evidence of the opposite. The Budhdhists have a strong tradition of presence and silence and if that removes all questions, why should he say a thing like that.? Like ET . he has said that suffering is because of one’s own mental state which needs to be constantly watched. He also says “The mind has the capacity to adopt different perspectives through which it can address various problems”. Presence with inner stillness though more important does not imply that you totally ignore the outer mind. When one actually examines a situation from diverse perspectives, the deep understanding of futility of taking hardened mental position arises since in ET’s words “Truths are paradoxical”

The discussion got unnecessarily prolonged because that person asked “Where does talent come from”. That I thought was an interesting dimension because from my experience, except for writing , other talents probably surface from presence. Just another perspective.

OnlyNow
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Post by OnlyNow » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:54 pm

Hiren Shah wrote:Well, if it a question of having the cake and eating it too, why have a discussion forum at all?. Not only ET, all spiritual leaders exhort to find the answer for yourself and discover within yourself.. They are against philosophical discussions and verbal debates.. The “simple” issue about the outer purpose which is the primary purpose of this discussion has baffled mystics and spiritual teachers throughout the history of mankind and no so called vocational psychologist even in today’s world is anywhere close to the solution. Since ET has explained the inner purpose so well, I thought maybe he could have a go at the outer purpose as well.
Even I can say that being in the present is such a simple affair so why have a discussion forum in the first place. It is not rocket science is it?

The Dalai lama had once said that he is ever ready to change his opinion when he comes across evidence of the opposite. The Budhdhists have a strong tradition of presence and silence and if that removes all questions, why should he say a thing like that.? Like ET . he has said that suffering is because of one’s own mental state which needs to be constantly watched. He also says “The mind has the capacity to adopt different perspectives through which it can address various problems”. Presence with inner stillness though more important does not imply that you totally ignore the outer mind. When one actually examines a situation from diverse perspectives, the deep understanding of futility of taking hardened mental position arises since in ET’s words “Truths are paradoxical”

The discussion got unnecessarily prolonged because that person asked “Where does talent come from”. That I thought was an interesting dimension because from my experience, except for writing , other talents probably surface from presence. Just another perspective.

May I refer you back to my second to last post.
When the Pupil is ready the Master appears

Hiren Shah
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Post by Hiren Shah » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:07 pm

In my view, analysis kills only if you go totally out of context. Sometimes one prolongs a discussion when one finds a unique expression to say the same thing.

In the papers today, thee was an itneresting article on how the western world believed in action but the eastern world believed more in peace whereas in reality we need both=peace(stillness) and action( deliberative action). Peace may depend on onlynow or presence but action has a lot of other variables which have to be used in the concerned context.

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tikey
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Re: Life purpose

Post by tikey » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:04 pm

hey something just came to my mid. that's I think the answear to the question about our "outer purpose" The question is easy to answear.
I'll put it like this: even in our mind-dominated personality there is something true. If it is about me then I can say I was always into drawing, into graphic
and art. And sice I had problems, which I now recognized as a "mind domination" or "mind identification" or just "ego" , I realized that it somehow
hold's me away from what I should do. I had in my life this beautifull experience of full surrender. My state was almost like the state of Eckhart at
age 20. I had some short spiritual awakening then but.... it lasted only for a couple of weeks and then my mind came back... but during that time
I glimpsed what self realization is. I started to draw like a crazy I started to make digital graphic's, all the stuff I couuldn't, because my mind was
always freightening me that I will not succeed in what I do. When fear was gone... all the barriers where gone... so I was free to do what I fell I should do.....
That's all. I hope the simplicity of my answear is not just too imple, because the mind propably expects soooo complicated answear that it could cover
some kilometer's of text. I think our outer purpose is somehing what we always wanted to do but mind was blocking us to do that..........
That's my point of you, I guess you have some more ideas....
Im just a cloudless sky :)

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blueviceroy
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Re: Life purpose

Post by blueviceroy » Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:39 pm

I'm going to agree with ET insamuch that the greater purpose we have is intrinsicly intertwined within our lesser pursuits.


All that I do i do with a sense of being part of a greater whole and all I do is an intent towards awakening other aspects of this greater whole into awareness of itself.


This is done in each effort I make in even the most mundane activity. Desiring a more decisive answer is an indication that satisfaction and fullfillment is still elusive . Once understanding of ones purpose in existence is experienced all pursuits align themselves with this intent. It's like breathing or drinking water.

Training ones desire, the agreement of each and every cell in ones body is the path to this state.

Once the agreement of all of ones being is in agreement then our greater purpose is reaveled in complete understanding , nourishing the inner with attention and love each day ,this and a desire to achieve connection to ones source is all the effort required.

It will happen independent of our intellect , independent of our awareness , independent of our ego, it is merely a proccess that self completes once we simply allow it to happen.

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Suzanne
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Re: Killing the point

Post by Suzanne » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:18 am

OnlyNow wrote:One thing he said with a wry look on his face ( in the findhorn retreat) that most analysis kills the thing its examining.
Ha!

Eckhart would approve!

spikyface
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Re: Life purpose

Post by spikyface » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:35 pm

My thoughts on the subject:

Life doesn't innately have a purpose, if it did, we'd know it on some basic level

We go through life until we find something outside us that resonates powerfully with something inside

That then becomes our life purpose


Although ultimately this is like finding your character within a great cosmic play, the reality will always be backstage
Do not take anyone as an authority on what you are. Ultimately all the answers lie within

Sandis
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Re: Life purpose

Post by Sandis » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:44 am

Your life purpouse(primary) is to be fully in the now...and secondary life purpouse will come out of that...and when that comes it will be your primary life purpouse...do as you do...
I see you bud...I finaly see you!!!

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