What exactly is Grace according to Eckhart?

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Goldenflutist
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mental and visceral

Post by Goldenflutist » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:11 am

Mental and visceral
Pain is a thought. You are not your thoughts
The last time I felt the pain of loss, I felt it in my physical body as an intense acute pain; thorax, throat, stomach, intestines... The thoughts may have caused that intense acute pain, but I see no way to disassociate yourself from all thought processes when you are going through the necessary "arrangements" associated with the death of someone. I am beginning to understand I am not my thoughts, and my personality is not the real me. Rome wasn't built in a day. After all, ET spent 2 years on a park bench after his enlightenment. I will get there, thanks to you and others on this forum who will guide me through.
A dog's eyes reflect the innocence and beauty of nature.

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JD
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Re: mental and visceral

Post by JD » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:34 am

Goldenflutist wrote: The thoughts may have caused that intense acute pain, but I see no way to disassociate yourself from all thought processes when you are going through the necessary "arrangements" associated with the death of someone.
Disassociation is not quite the same thing as disidentification.

Disidentification means allowing the thoughts to be there but trying to experience them as they are, without imposing a story or narrative on them.

Difficult, I know, but check out this thread:

http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... php?t=2637

There's lots of good advice there.

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yougarksooo
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Post by yougarksooo » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:36 am

I know it is just a word and I could use another if I knew one. Is grace really a pretty word for time? Like the phrase time heals all wounds? Any insight would be appreciated.
I have no idea what it is. It is a word I don't use much because the closest I can get to it is the "joy, gratitude, peace and ease which comes from that which can't be named."

You see why I don't use it?

I like all the comments about it though. I particularly like Web's definition. At some point, I had to jump off the word because there is this tendency to be really drawn into certain words, such as sacred and grace. They have such a historical, and deeply profound sense or feeling-sense surrounding them. I'm afraid that my mind gets mushy with them in the same way it gets mushy with the idea of a person as a substitute with RELATING to a person or nature. Know what I mean? Sometimes the more profound-sounding the word, the more my mind gets pulled into a dreaminess about the meaning.

Grace? Sounds like its from God? God? What is that? That which can't be named? So then if even God can't be named, what can? Nothing. Ah yes, now that is grace. Knowing that. Living that. Being that.
"When people ask me who they are or who God is, I smile inside and whisper to the light: there you go again . . . pretending."

Adya

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Post by proudlybeing » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:38 am

Great posts everyone , Goldenflutist, you sure start some great threads !

At the risk of over simplifying things again,

It may be easier to understand the word ' grace ' by adding a little adjective to it

Gracefull.

To me now this word encompasses all above and more beyond . this might seem a little silly if too much thought is added, I;e how can you know what gracefull is (or full of grace) if you do not know what grace is ? My suggestion is to just look at the whole word 'gracefull ' as a stand alone word and see where youre thoughts take you.

bless you all P.B
Last edited by proudlybeing on Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Goldenflutist
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Thanks

Post by Goldenflutist » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:47 am

For JD
But I'm not sure I would have made it if I'd just read The Power Of Now.

What I did was put several of ET's audiobooks on my MP3 player so that I could listen to them every day whenever I had a few spare minutes.

This practise was absolutely essential for me because I quickly discovered that information I thought I'd digested and understood was more or less forgotten (or at least, not put into practice) only a day or two later.
Thanks for leading me to that thread. You should have that page saved somewhere so you can lead others whom I am sure will come along with the same issues. I have done exactly what you have done, and that is having all of Tolle's books in an audio format and listening to them every time I take my Lab out for a walk. I have been doing that every day now for a month, and I am getting stronger. I am on my 3rd listen of A New Earth, and as you stated, you forget. It does not stick and will take multiple times for me to get it just as deeply ingrained as all the negative stuff I have spent years cultivating.

Thanks proudlybeing for coming in and sharing your precious wisdom once again. I do love you very much as you know

To everyone else, take a leaf from JD and if at all possible Listen to Tolle. He has a gift beyond price with the peace he can bring to a listener.
A dog's eyes reflect the innocence and beauty of nature.

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kullukid
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Post by kullukid » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:24 pm

heidi wrote:Grace, for me, is simply going with the flow. If there is no resistance to what is, that's grace. I recall reading in The Artist's Way, a description of letting go like this: It's as though you are in a canoe resting, and letting the flow of the water take you along the stream - You are at rest in motion. Real acceptance, letting go of force and ego, and allowing Creation to flow through you - flowing with Creation - that's grace, baby. :)
My understanding is that everything is "The Grace of God" but while ever we are resisting/judging/choosing through the false idea or sense of self we are not co-operating with "God's will" in fact we are under the illusion that "I AM" choosing through "MY" freewill as opposed to "God's will" which i think is where the pain comes in.
In other words when we are in conflict & not flowing with Creation, but are actually opposed to "Gods Will" which is REAL unlike our false judgement based on "ME" then we experience suffering/pain through wrong understanding in the things we thought would bring "ME" pleasure/happiness.
Once we start to co-operate with "Gods Will/Plan" & no longer judge things through "MY self" or Ego then Grace appears or is unveiled & everthying just IS & we clearly SEE & start to perform "Right Action" as opposed to "Acting" through judgement & choice which eventually leads to misery.
In fact you could say that once you are living in Grace you are fully co-operating with the Universe or Gods Will through spontaneous direct action which does not involve any kind of judgement or choice by "ME" you just do the right thing spontaneously/naturely (or without attaching a false self to thoughts). Once this state appears you are permanently in Joy (not happiness!) or "Bliss"or Anand as in Hinduism's Sat Chit Anand.
Or if i dare take it a step further you become "Gods Will" or Creation "I AM THAT" (BRAMHAN).
Another thought- Is Grace St Pauls "Peace that passeth all understanding"???
Here's a little Mantra i use to find very useful to meditate on. I found it in one of Alice A Bailey's books:

There is a peace that passeth understanding.
It abides in the hearts of those who live in the Eternal.
There is a Power that maketh all things new
It lives & moves in those who no the SELF as One.
:D KK
THE MIND IS THE SLAYER OF THE REAL
SLAY THE SLAYER!

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Post by eseward » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:31 pm

kullukid, I find Vernon Howard (in his books) saying the same thing in different words. :)

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kullukid
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Post by kullukid » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:36 pm

eseward wrote:kullukid, I find Vernon Howard (in his books) saying the same thing in different words. :)
Oh! i'm not really familiar with Vernon Howard. What are the titles of his books?? :) KK
THE MIND IS THE SLAYER OF THE REAL
SLAY THE SLAYER!

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yougarksooo
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Post by yougarksooo » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:42 pm

Thanks Heidi, love the writing on grace.

kullukid, very good. Thanks. I've made the same connection in my own life between my will and God's will. This fits perfectly with presence, surrender, and most religions as far as I can tell. I find more and more that the various religions, methods, 12 steps are saying the same thing through different forms. Makes sense, if you see that all is One.
"When people ask me who they are or who God is, I smile inside and whisper to the light: there you go again . . . pretending."

Adya

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kullukid
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Post by kullukid » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:45 pm

yougarksooo wrote:Thanks Heidi, love the writing on grace.

kullukid, very good. Thanks. I've made the same connection in my own life between my will and God's will. This fits perfectly with presence, surrender, and most religions as far as I can tell. I find more and more that the various religions, methods, 12 steps are saying the same thing through different forms. Makes sense, if you see that all is One.
Personally i don't follow any Religion, but from my investigations i have noticed that there does seem to be an underlying Truth in most Religions which gives the same message, which is "Look Within" or "Be Still & Know Thyself" :) KK
THE MIND IS THE SLAYER OF THE REAL
SLAY THE SLAYER!

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