Something interesting

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Something interesting

Postby Katiebug » Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:26 pm

Im in school right now, taking a class called Origen of the Bible. My teacher is very smart about spirituality, and tells great stories. One day in class he started talking about "I am" and being, and how he believes in this. So, I raised my hand, (after having read the PON) and asked, "what is being?" He answered in a way that ET probably would have. This is a man who seems to know everything about the Bible, the origen, different religions, and yet he was gearing the whole class around being. It was awesome, so Im taking him again next semester. After class I asked him if he had read PON, and he said, "yeah hes a really nice guy." They know eachother. I just like that while reading the book, there was someone broadening the ideas of it in a Bible class. Thats why he is so big into the Gospel of Thomas. It opened my eyes to Jesus, that I have previously taken His teachings on a more shallow level, but now the analogies are about being. It really amazing to relate some of the things in the Bible to enlightenment.
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Re: Something interesting

Postby rockchuk » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:49 am

Katiebug wrote:Im in school right now, taking a class called Origen of the Bible. My teacher is very smart about spirituality, and tells great stories. One day in class he started talking about "I am" and being, and how he believes in this. So, I raised my hand, (after having read the PON) and asked, "what is being?" He answered in a way that ET probably would have. This is a man who seems to know everything about the Bible, the origen, different religions, and yet he was gearing the whole class around being. It was awesome, so Im taking him again next semester. After class I asked him if he had read PON, and he said, "yeah hes a really nice guy." They know eachother. I just like that while reading the book, there was someone broadening the ideas of it in a Bible class. Thats why he is so big into the Gospel of Thomas. It opened my eyes to Jesus, that I have previously taken His teachings on a more shallow level, but now the analogies are about being. It really amazing to relate some of the things in the Bible to enlightenment.


Hi Katie - I'm with you on this. I'm a Christian and it's been such a joy to see Christ with new eyes as the truths of Presence become more and more real. It's like Jesus is being lifted out of some archaic, stuffy 'old time religion' mode, and becoming more alive and real.

I truly love Eckhart, he is one of my heros, but all men pale before Christ and what He brought us. Yes, I know we are of the same essence, but Christ went above and beyond for us. He was not content to merely live in Presence, but insisted on becoming the 'Way' to help us see who we really are. Of course, by the time religion gets done with Jesus, we see Him through terribly murky filters, but looking at Him with clearer eyes shows He is indeed the Savior of Mankind.

I know Eckhart loves Christ, but I wonder if he realizes how important Christ is and how much He can help those who trust Him and ask for His help? I don't get that importance in Eckhart's teachings, and that's too bad as this relationship with Christ brings us even a greater potential yet.
[/b]
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Postby heidi » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:16 pm

Hi Rockchuk - I think what's important here is to not invest our selves in the concept of a diety, but to be more christlike in our acceptance and honoring of all people. Just as Tolle speaks of the symbolic messages about being of the christ, so too can followers of the teachings of Buddha and Mohammed. So too can people like me who follow no one!

Here at this forum we have Jews, Christians, Muslims, Agnostics, Atheists, and Independents :), and as moderator, I am requesting that you are sensitive to and respectful of all members of this forum.

To exclude others is to go against the very Christ consciouness of which you speak. To compare and contrast Eckhart to Christ and say he and all men pale... is very un-christlike in its essence.

So, my friend, instead of singing somebody's praises and making comparisons, how about emulating the presence and acceptance and BEING of the one you exhault?
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Postby phil » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:56 pm

Let's hear it for the Independants! :-) That was funny Heidi, thanks... :-)

The challenge with the subject of Christ would appear to be that he lived and taught 2,000 years ago, before any reliable method of recording his exact teaching was available. Thus, it will always be one person's interpretation vs. another's. And even if we had all of his exact words on video tape, we are still faced with the problem of translating their meaning across 2 millenia from his culture to ours, which is quite a leap.

The only solution I can think of may be for all of us to recognize our inability to come to any definitive conclusion about Christ's teachings. The Power Of Ignorance would seem to liberate us to explore such subjects with passion, without getting sucked in to conflicts of various kinds.

Personally, I'm less interested in Christ than I am in the example of those living Christians of today whose spiritual practice is based on service to others in the mundane practical challenges of day to day life.

I do think their example could serve as a useful complement to our discussions here. I must admit I'm a bit wary of philosophies that seem to be saying anything other than our own personal awakening is just all "mind stuff". There is a degree to which making my awakening "all about me" plays right in to the ego's game plan, eh?

Selfless service to others is full of all kinds of traps too (look at me, aren't I such a good person etc) but still, I feel those who pursue awakening on this path have something to offer here. And for those Christians who have a sincere passion for evangalism we might kindly suggest, convince us with your deeds rather than your words, that's the interesting bit, imho.
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Postby rockchuk » Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:30 pm

Don;t worry, folks. I am not here to convert anyone. I guess I should remember that when on a Tolle forum to sing his praises and not another's. :D

I do think you folks over-reacted and wish you would read my post again more carefully. Any true lover of Truth loves Christ, just as they will love the Buddah, Moses, Ghandi or Monty Python. I was honoring Christ, not a religion. I personally don;t like religion, and that's something I need to work on. I simply have found tremendous help anytime I have asked Jesus Christ for help. Everytime. And I think that's pretty interesting.

Anyway, I've taken note....'make effort to be politically correct'..... :wink:
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Postby phil » Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:49 pm

Oops, sorry rockchuck.

Heidi is a moderator, and thus has the last word on what fits here or doesn't.

But for myself, just another poster, I didn't mean to enforce any rules on you. Sorry, my fault if it read that way. I do think a discussion of Christ, and/or Christianity, could be interesting, and I was just trying to share what part of such a discussion might be interesting to me.

If such a discussion went some other direction, no worries, I've got scroll bars. :-)

Sorry about the conversion reference. My bad. I guess I've had too many folks bang on my door trying to sell me their scene, and have lost alittle openmindedness in the process. My problem, not yours.

I must admit that years ago I converted from Monty Python and accepted Basil Fawlty as my personal savior, but we can still be friends I guess. :-)

For those few of you who may have missed that reference, Basil Fawlty is quite possibly the most hilarious example of "lost in illusion" to ever enlighten a TV screen.

http://www.fawltysite.net/
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Postby rockchuk » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:09 pm

Oh great, Phil.....now you have given my mind something even more to work on....how can I see the reruns of Fawlty??? :D I had never seen that show before and it looks wonderful. One of the biggest problems I have with all scriptures of the world is their uniform lack of humor. That's suspicious to me. Personally I would have loved to have seen Christ give all the disciples a pie in the face directly after the Last Supper and before going to the Cross. However, Him forgiving His killers with His last breath was pretty cool too.

I do hope Heidi will allow us to talk about Christ as I find him to be the most fascinating person in history and have many questions. Even more interesting that Eckhart, that is, until Eckhart comes to the place of healing the sick and raising the dead at will. :D Maybe she could give us some guidelines so that we don't offend those of more politically correct natures here. That's one of my great faults, unfortunately....lack of PC sensibilities.......
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Postby phil » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:54 pm

rockchuk wrote:Oh great, Phil.....now you have given my mind something even more to work on....how can I see the reruns of Fawlty??? :D I had never seen that show before and it looks wonderful.


Oh, it is, it is. Well, I'm assuming you like Monty Python. If yes, you have no choice but to make the pilgrimage to Fawlty Towers. I've seen the episodes dozens of times, and Basil Fawlty still makes me fall out of my chair laughing. He so well portrays the hilarity of the human condition.

You should be able to rent the videos. And they are on PBS (in the US) regularly.

rockchuk wrote:One of the biggest problems I have with all scriptures of the world is their uniform lack of humor. That's suspicious to me.


Yes, yes, yes, well said. Excellent point.

I sense that humor can arise out of an awareness of our ignorance. Embracing our ignorance is often not something that comes naturally to the big picture thinkers who run religions.

It's like a Fawlty Towers episode. Nature/God has written an impossible scenario plot line. We have the ability to ask all the big questions, but not to get the answers. It's a big practical joke at our expense.

Like Basil Fawlty, we do all kinds of crazy things trying to make the impossible scenario work, and it makes for an entertaining show.

Maybe awakening has something to do with getting the gag, and getting in on it, so God is laughing with us instead of at us.

rockchuk wrote:Personally I would have loved to have seen Christ give all the disciples a pie in the face directly after the Last Supper and before going to the Cross.


Ha, what an image. You should apply to be an editor of the next version of the Bible. In the next version of the Bible, maybe you can hire Basil Fawlty to cater the Last Supper!

rockchuk wrote:I do hope Heidi will allow us to talk about Christ


Moderating a forum like this is tricky. Awakening is a really big subject and this could easily become the "All About Everything" board without some guidance. I'm delighted that others have volunteered for this thankless (thank you!) job, and I'm sure they'll find a good balance.

Nice meeting you rockchuk.
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Postby rockchuk » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:28 am

Hey Phil, it just dawned on me that Jesus and John Cleese share the same initials......W H O A................ :lol:

I love your thoughts that hopefully one day we will laugh with God instead of feeling like He's laughing at us. One can get the feeling while reading the Old Testament that Yahweh and Zeus were pretty much identical twins, except that maybe Zeus was better looking. I have always wondered why Christians are so anxious to spend eternity with someone like the yahweh portrayed in Deut 28, for instance. To me that would be hell, not heaven.

Of course, to be fair, often the Bible writer did get it right too, such as this great verse from Prov 3.
Does this remind you of E.T.'s stuff or what?:

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart.
Do not lean upon your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge Him.
And He shall direct your paths."



.
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Postby heidi » Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:29 am

I do hope Heidi will allow us to talk about Christ as I find him to be the most fascinating person in history and have many questions. Even more interesting that Eckhart, that is, until Eckhart comes to the place of healing the sick and raising the dead at will. Very Happy Maybe she could give us some guidelines so that we don't offend those of more politically correct natures here


You can say anything you want; though I would hope you will stay on topic about what this forum is about - the teachings of Tolle and such. I don't think we would find discussion of Christ in General Tolle discussion, maybe in the Spritual Teachers section?

I speak from my intuitive place and I speak from a place of truth. If you have an agenda, then, at least post in the appropriate section. And if we can't accomodate you here, maybe you should be posting at a Christ forum. :)
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Postby Katiebug » Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:28 am

I apologize, I actually started the post. :oops: Sometimes you never know where the post will end up once you have put it out there. I wasn't referring to only Jesus, but rather using Him as an example of how enlightenment can be related to old teachings. ET opened my eyes to many new things, but after learning more about the Bible and other beliefs....enlightenment/being always has been and always will be taught and felt.
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Postby phil » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:13 am

rockchuk wrote:Hey Phil, it just dawned on me that Jesus and John Cleese share the same initials......W H O A................ :lol:


Yes, when you accept John Cleese, aka Basil Fawlty, as your personal savior, you can get the other JC thrown in for free if you wish. The sale lasts through Sunday. :-)

rockchuk wrote:And He shall direct your paths.


He? You said the lack of humor in religion gives you pause. Another one to add to the list perhaps is this "he" business.

Why are so many of the spiritual teachers, religious leaders, and Gods single men? Anyone over 13 knows single men are the craziest form of human there life is, followed closely by married men. Sounds like a baloney sandwich in the making to me...

Seriously. All the violence in this world, for thousands of years. Who's doing 98% of it?

The holidays are coming up and we'll soon all be with family. Have you noticed in your family how the person who gives you the most advice is always the person least qualified on that subject?

Uh oh, this old guy smells a logical trap about to spring itself upon my own posts. Sorry, gotta run! :-)
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Postby heidi » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:08 pm

No need to apologize, Katie. If I'm not mistaken, your topic was about applying PON concepts to the symbolic language in scriptures thereby gaining new understanding. :)
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Postby rockchuk » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:28 pm

rockchuk wrote:And He shall direct your paths.


He? You said the lack of humor in religion gives you pause. Another one to add to the list perhaps is this "he" business.

Oh brother, I can;t believe you've fallen for this silly business, Phil. Jesus may have said that 'God is Spirit', however, this is one Spirit that definitely has cahones....though, I must admit that they may be shrinking with age. In Moses' time it was nothing for HIM to slay 25,000 innocent bystanders at a whack and not give it a second thought. And of course it took a galactic size dose of testosterone to drown the entire world and everything in it, except for that which would fit onto a boat. But sadly, as time went on, the whackings, both large and small, diminished, and finally HE came as Christ, who was actually pretty darn sissy, if you ask me. HE was not able to muster even one good indian head rub, much less a cold blooded murder. It's a sad sight indeed to see the feminization of the Almighty.....

Why are so many of the spiritual teachers, religious leaders, and Gods single men? Anyone over 13 knows single men are the craziest form of human there life is, followed closely by married men. Sounds like a baloney sandwich in the making to me...

Seriously. All the violence in this world, for thousands of years. Who's doing 98% of it?

Oh gawwd, Phil. Come on, you know I love you bro, but parroting such half-truths is beneath you. What you leave out is that 98% of all domestic nagging is done by you-know-who, virtually forcing the other you-know-whos to go outside the home and start a war in utter frustration. Yes, that's right, I said it, standing behind every man who started a successful war is a woman who must share the brunt of the blame. And when you get right down to it, if Eve hadn;t eaten that apple, then Mankind would have never fallen in the first place and there wouldn;t have been any wars, period. It would all be Light and Presence and Being with chocolate milk waterfalls and endless reruns of Fawlty Towers.... Selah.

:D :D :D [/b]
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Postby Katiebug » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:44 pm

Whats done is done, so NOW let us be the ones who create peace :) Maybe all those men and women did all that because they were not conscious.
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