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Postby be-lank » Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:14 pm

This is a written discussion group. The words are expressions of thoughts and emotions.

For the most part, our attention is in these words, meaning a self is in the words, our self is in the words.

Here we are our posts, our names, our photos etc.

And this can be very entertaining.

This is also an Eckhart Tolle discussion group. His photo is on every page. Eckhart teaches The Power of Now. And The Power of Now is realized when there is no self. When the mind is still, and one’s attention is simply Attention itself. It is attention without any attachment to forms- such as thoughts, emotions, words, objects. It is attention without identification with forms.

What we all really want- deep within- is to know who we are. And who we really are is beyond form.

We unknowingly attempt to find ourselves through form, through thoughts, words, objects etc. We seek our Self in the outer, and in the mind. But we cannot find who we are in this way, or even in seeking.

Often we are simply seeking to enhancing our small selves.

The diminishment of the personal self allows an opening for The Power of Now to be realized. And this is the last thing the ego wants.

Practicing the portals in The Power of Now lessens the egos hold on our attention. And lessons the ego.

Yes, an Eckhart Tolle discussion group is irony.

But if used as a practice, it can be helpful and beneficial.

The practice would be watching one’s thoughts, emotions and words.
Being the witness of the mind. No matter what is written, that we are the observer of this writing.

We watch any emotion that comes up with our posts- fear, anger etc.

The practice would be allowing space, giving space to all posts and to everyone that posts.

We watch any resistance or reactivity that comes up.

Our practice being completely accepting what is in the moment- and it any reactivity comes, we accept that and keep it out of the head and story.

This is how the personal self loses ground, and how our attention stays pure and does not get stolen by the mind. And if it does, that’s fine, we recognize it as soon as we can. Then step back, and allow.

If we use this site as a portal practice, then it is in alignment with Eckhart Tolle and The Power of Now.

But if we are using this site as a platform for the ego to flourish,
then The Now is lost, and we might as well pursue a worldly endeavor, which would offer something more seemingly tangible.

No words or posts have to be editing or altered- just watched. And the watching becomes more important than what is written, than the posts.

We watch our thoughts, our minds, our self. We watch our inner space. We are the guardians of our inner space- of what it going on within us. Eckhart has said, “I cannot emphasize enough that all it takes is Noticing it.” That this watching is simply noticing it. That noticing it is Awareness itself. Attention itself. Freed from form.

“The only absolutely important thing is knowing who you are- beyond form.”

Eckhart Tolle
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Aware posting

Postby BillyPLed » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:14 am

I couldn't have said it better myself. I do not post much here. I come here daily to read posts and greatly appreciate each of you. I am sure that I would get more out of it if I posted more myself -- especially if I did it as a practice in awareness.

I do find it interesting noticing when others "react" to a post. I also react often, even if I do not write about it. That reactivity is an indication of resistance. What am I resisting? Why am I reacting so strongly? What did that person touch in me? Can I be with that reactivity / resistance long enough to find its source?
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Re: Aware posting

Postby phil » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:46 am

BillyPLed wrote:I do find it interesting noticing when others "react" to a post. I also react often, even if I do not write about it.


Yes, the reaction process is a shining light, agreed.

One observation of that process. I'll use myself as an example, instead of pointing the light elsewhere.

I go to nature. I have some experience. I like it. And so do it again. Etc.

So far so good. No need for conflict because you recognize I'm in my head and you are not. So if I say something feels good to me, you just nod and say, "OK, cool."

But I'm not quite content with that. The universe is soooo big, and I am so small. It's scary not knowing the master game plan, and how I fit in to it etc.

So now I take my personal experience, which does sincerely feel true to me, and expand it in to a general theory of what being human is all about for everybody.

My personal experience, which needed no name, now becomes Phil's Wholistic Nature Ecology Thingy, which I begin peddling to everyone.

I want everyone to accept this definition of reality, my definition, because then we'll all agree on a world view that makes sense to me, and thus I'll feel safer within that group experience.

I observe this, in myself.

Now I've launched some conflict, because other people have their own experiences, that they explain their own way. And most likely, many of these folks are doing the same thing I'm doing, trying to expand their personal experience in to an agreed upon global explanation they can live with.

We come here, and collide. And with luck, some light is created along with all the heat.

This is just one more system, but the best I can offer for a solution is a close examination of what we really KNOW, and what we just think.

My guess is we'll discover we actually know very little, close to nothing, and we might be united in that.

If we can get that far, then we can argue and explore with abandon! :-)
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Postby L. Bryson » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:57 pm

BINGO PHIL!....

We KNOW that we KNOW nothing, and this does create unity.
The important thing is that we all aspire to a higher level of being.
NOT a good/bad/right/wrong issue.... however KNOWING there IS a path
IS preferable opposed to NOT knowing ,in the sense of KNOWING there is a higher calling to right living/right thinking.

The difference between KNOWING and not KNOWING is simple...
those who do not know, just do not know. But once you do KNOW you cannot NOT KNOW! :) HOW CLEAR IS THIS.... LOL!

L.
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Postby phil » Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:10 pm

Hi L, thanks for the bingo. I never won before. :-)

Here's a try to add to yours.

Could we distinguish between our awareness of an experience,
and our interpretation of that experience?

Awareness

I can see each of us can "know" the experiences happening in
our own heads, that is, be fully aware of them.


Interpretation

Do we begin to leave the land of knowing with any certainty
when we begin to interpret our experiences?

Scientists establish the authority of a theory by having
lots of people do the same experiment until they all get the
same result. Lucky them.

In our arena, the more people who run the experiment, the
greater variety of results and interpretations we get.

I might interpret my experience to mean, "God's plan is for
everyone to worship squirrels."

As off the wall as that is, there's no way to either prove
or disprove it. I can't KNOW my interpretation is true,
and others can't KNOW it's not true.

For me, this ties back in to Lisa's opening post.

Are our interpretations one of the obstacles between us and
now, and between us personally?

If we conclude that we can't verify any of interpretations
with any certainty, then maybe our interpretations become
less of an obstacle?

Can we enter now without the baggage of any past conclusions,
or any future goals? Can we enter now for no reason at all?
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Postby L. Bryson » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:18 am

Hi Phil,


Yes, I think we can enter into the now without our past conditioning or future goals coming into play. That's the whole point, to be aware that eating a banana can be a different experience every time! LOL!
A banana may be just a banana but there are infinite possibilities as to how we experience the banana! How we prepare the banana, and being open to the fact that there are 100's of banana recipes OUT THERE that may infact have a serious impact on how we interpret " BANANA! "

Now I imagine your squirrels have limited ability to perceive their intent towards say a walnut. They are probably quite content with the same old walnut being served in the same old way, day after day. They have no ability to even perceive that there are vast combinations of walnut based dishes that they are missing out on. Every walnut is like the very first walnut and they enjoy their walnut's in the NOW!

We on the other hand may be in fear of getting a bad walnut based on a past experience, therefore our walnut moment is colored with the memory of the wormy walnut we ate 30 yrs, ago. So in conclusion I think it all comes back to presence, and reminding ourselves that something NEW CAN HAPPEN.


There is no reality, only perception. It is up to US to stay open to what shows up without the intanglment of past or future projections. Step outta the squirrel cage and whip up a Waldorf salad for your little rodent friends :D

L.
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Postby phil » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:49 am

Hi L,

Words can be wonderful sometimes, eh? Your use of bananas as an example tickled my funny bone. Someone should start a rock group, or maybe a religion, called The Infinite Banana, for no other reason than it would be fun to say.

And yes, I take your point, a world of new possible experiences opens up in the now. For me, I observe this easiest in nature. The longer I sit still and observe a single view, the more that appears within that scene. It can be magical, eh? Next time I'm gonna bring some bananas!

L. Bryson wrote:Yes, I think we can enter into the now without our past conditioning or future goals coming into play.


OK. In that circumstance we would need some other explanation as to why in some moment or another we decide to shift our focus to the now.

I'm trying to be simple about this. I'm sitting here. I can choose to think about what I'll write tomorrow, or I can choose to closely observe this post being typed.

If I choose to focus on now, why did I make that decision?
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Postby L. Bryson » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:26 am

Because you are making a CONSCIOUS CHOICE.... In the words of my old Chinese boss..... " Understand...? Perty simple" :D


BTW.... I thinkif you want to be the self appointed " God of the squirrels" by all means. I am the self appointed " Goddess of the Geese"
:wink:

L.
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Postby phil » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:20 am

OK Geese Girl, why am I making that particular conscious choice?
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Postby L. Bryson » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:24 am

Because it WORKS for you in the NOW. Because if your mind is busy thinking about what you want to say tomorrow you would have no space to express what your thinking NOW. You choose what WORK'S for NOW.
That's all there is to it. If you get up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, you just get up and GO. You don't lie their wondering IF you might have to go again tomorrow night. Too many " WHY'S " take away from the present moment.

If we are ALWAY'S asking " why " we would never get anything done in the present. Asking ourselve's " why "is a good thing for the most part...
builds awareness, however... if we never stop asking " why " we would be unemployed and starving.

Why do I like squirrels?
Why do I like apple pie?
Why is the sky blue?
Why was I born a man/woman?
Why is it raining?
Why are their mosquito's?

Think less, BE more.


:D L.
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Postby spatialbean » Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:22 am

If I choose to focus on now, why did I make that decision?


Because that's all that exists.
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Postby phil » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:46 pm

L. Bryson wrote:Too many " WHY'S " take away from the present moment.


Right, I agree.

And not enough "whys" can lead to a life filled with self delusion.

I'll use myself as an example.

I have a need for beauty and serenity in my life. So I go out to nature looking for beauty and serenity.

I take my walks on wonderful winter days. I get stoned on now in nature, and I find the beauty and serenity I was looking for.

I then begin to interpret these wonderful experiences in to various theories about nature, and our relationship to it, and what it all means etc. I'll buy books by other people who have theories like mine, and add them to my theory pile. I may go along for years telling everyone how wonderful nature is etc.

After reveling in all this for awhile, one day I ask why.

I observe that my trips to nature are motivated by my need for beauty and serenity. I notice my observations of nature are hopelessly contaminated by these needs.

I've completed disregarded the ruthlessly violent side of nature, because I don't take my walks on dark nights when a 30 degree rain is poring down, and all the weakest creatures are dying slow ugly deaths etc. I never see the pain in nature, because I go to nature to escape pain.

I observe I'm actually not really "there" in nature when I bring any kind of need or theory in to the woods with me.

All this time, I've been seeing my needs, not nature.

Uh oh, all my beautiful theories, and the theories I've borrowed from others, now lose their weight, because we've discovered they reflect my personal needs much better than they reflect reality.

Well, now what? I can't just turn my needs off with the flick of a switch.

But I can be honest with myself about what is motivating my journeys in to now and nature. That's something I can do.

I can observe that so long as I am coming to now with needs, it's too soon for me to get too serious about any interpretations I may buy, borrow, rent or create about my experiences.

I apologize to any readers here who are not coming to now out of any need, as I'm sure all of the above will be boring reading for you. :twisted:


----


PS: As a concluding sidebar, I'll observe that Tolle's writing, and this board, seem loaded to the rafters with interpretations, theories, conclusions, declaritive statements soaked in authoritiy of various kinds, and so on.

I have no objection to this, as a writer needs a point of view, or why bore the readers?

But I'm puzzled when I keep getting the "Think less, be more" sermon.

Is it really thinking and analysis itself you object to, or just thinking and analysis that collides with your own thinking and analysis?

I observe that when I'm thinking and analyzing in tandem with the group consensus, nobody objects.

Food for observation?

Thanks for the conversation girls!
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Postby L. Bryson » Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:31 pm

Hi Phil,

True.... not enough thinking leads to a " dilussional life."
I can't speak for anyone else on this forum and I am still a newbie so don't have any feelings yet for individuals approach. ( not that it matters in the least) However I can see MYSELF in your posts.

I am extremly prone to over anyalizing myself. Seeking balance between
appropriate use of mind and over expenditure of energy. Sometimes a duck is just a duck! Or a squirrel! :D I too have a " need" for beauty and serenity. Infact both are major priorities in my life. The key is balance.
Not always easy to maintain.

I don't think that your choice to not be out wandering in 30 degree weather with a willingness to observe dying wildlife means you are only "using" nature's finest moments from a place of selfish need.
I think this is just common sense.

I too live in wild area and as much as I love and " use"nature as a grounding experience myself, I am not going to plant myself in the forest at mid-night and wait for the Mtn. Lions to wander by!
I KNOW they are there, don't need to expose myself to their presence to prove I accept all that nature is.

My sharing the pitfalls of " over thinking" is intended only to observe that sometimes over anyalizing just leads to more mental pain/confusion.
Only we as individuals can determine when each approach is suitable to whatever is showing up in the moment. The $64,000 question.....
" when to hold em and when to fold em".......


Peace...... L.
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Postby phil » Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:35 pm

Hi again GG,

L. Bryson wrote:The key is balance. Not always easy to maintain.


With you totally there. That's what interests me, the balance. Yes, not easy to maintain. But luckily, we're part of nature too, and there are built-in balancing mechanisms that help us. Pain comes to mind.

L. Bryson wrote:I don't think that your choice to not be out wandering in 30 degree weather with a willingness to observe dying wildlife means you are only "using" nature's finest moments from a place of selfish need.


I'm not worried about selfishness, but clarity of observation.

I'd like to see nature, or now, as it is. Not as I wish it were, or as somebody has told me it is etc.

My need is in the way. My need polluted interpretations are in the way. Tolle's interpretations of what I will find in the now, and what it means, and so on, is also in the way.

Can we enter now without need, and without interpretations?

I hear you about common sense. I have a wife for that. :-)

We've talked about experience vs. theory. If I really want to experience nature, feel it, be it, not just know about it, I may have to take some of those rainy cold night time walks.

And then Guru Kathynanda (my wife) will get in the car with a flashlight and bring me back to "normal". I love her for that. I'd have explored myself deep in to some far away long lost prairie by now without her. (Hi Hon!)

L. Bryson wrote:Only we as individuals can determine when each approach is suitable to whatever is showing up in the moment. The $64,000 question..... " when to hold em and when to fold em".......


Well said, well said, agreed.

Lisa started us off with a clear statement of the power of now, and portals that can take us in that direction.

If anyone cares to continue, we've only begun to scratch the surface of need and interpretations as obstacles to now. That could be a portal perhaps.

Thanks again L, it's fun having another friend to play with.
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Postby be-lank » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:19 am

"M. R. DUCKS."

"M. R. NOT DUCKS."

"S.A.R. C.M. WANGS?"

"L.I.B. M.R. DUCKS!"
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