I would like to overcome anxiety and depression

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mikel
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Re: I would like to overcome anxiety and depression

Post by mikel » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:28 pm


Oswald wrote

Of course, what goes along with that is the knowledge that you will soon be dead and will have missed this shining golden opportunity called Life.
to truly become one with the sorrow in that statement might push you to truth.

on the other hand if it remains in the sphere of egoic story, it will just fuel this depressed identity.

I can testify to that.

Oswald2001
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Re: I would like to overcome anxiety and depression

Post by Oswald2001 » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:03 pm

mikel wrote:

Oswald wrote

Of course, what goes along with that is the knowledge that you will soon be dead and will have missed this shining golden opportunity called Life.
to truly become one with the sorrow in that statement might push you to truth.

on the other hand if it remains in the sphere of egoic story, it will just fuel this depressed identity.

I can testify to that.

Yes. It 'might' push me to truth.

On the other hand, I have been chasing 'mights' all my life. It's been fruitless.

So far, all the "mights' I have chased (for decades) have been just more carrots on just more sticks.

The sphere of 'egoic story' may...or may not...be accurate. Perhaps it's not beyond the ability of the ego to make an accurate assessment from time to time.

It's just where I am stuck. Trapped.


IT'S ALL ABOUT THE PARADIGM SHIFT.

I have noticed that plenty of others were similarly trapped...until...they weren't.

Until they had life altering experiences. Among them Eckhart Tolle, John Sherman, Gangagi, Neale Donald Walsh, Leonard Jacobson, Byron Katy....etc.

Historically, we have Moses, Joan of Arc, Paul/Saul (he of the 'road to Damascus fame) and many many others.

All those people were hopelessly mired in wherever they were at until they had a Paradigm Shift.

"Most people live lives of quiet desparation" because they know they are not being who they could be and are tortured by the inescapable fact that the promise of their lives is evaporating minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day.

Almost all of the BILLIONS of people on the planet will live...and die...without having the Paradigm Shift that I seek. (A possible contributing factor to Anxiety and/or Depression? One would think so. 8) )

ET was no different and would have committed suicide or simply hung around until his body gave up the ghost in old age as only one more wasted life...EXCEPT...

ET had a Paradigm Shift.

Until and unless there is a Paradigm Shift, nothing will change.

Throughout my life, too few times IMO, I have experienced some Paradigm Shifts. I have no clue why they came, when and how they did. But, I know I would still be stuck 'back there' unless those Paradigm Shifts showed up.

The question for me is, "How Do I Get My Paradigm Shift?".

In the past, it seems that they came on their own from The Universe in some process and with some timing that I don't understand.

As far as I can tell, none of my cursing, fighting, striving, pleading, begging, railing, screaming, crying, working, working, working, working, working, working, tryings, thinking, working, working, working or searching had anything at all to do with the Paradigm Shifts showing up.

From all of the BILLIONS of lives lived on Planet Earth over 1,000's of years, it seems to me that this should be well known, well marked, well mapped territory.

Not so, it would appear.

How could this possibly be? :shock:

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Webwanderer
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Re: I would like to overcome anxiety and depression

Post by Webwanderer » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:35 pm

Oswald2001 wrote:It's just where I am stuck. Trapped.

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE PARADIGM SHIFT.
Well that's one version. More fundamentally it's about the "shift". Paradigm is one type but there is also the pendulum shift. It moves more slowly but still constitutes a different perspective of seeing. Both refer to changes in how one sees "things".

For example: the problem is not so much "being stuck" or "trapped", but in the judgment that assumes that being stuck is somehow wrong. Wrong for who? The repeated reference to an "I" that is stuck, must be seen for the pseudo-identity that it is. Will that recognition come in a flash of paradigm shift? Or will it come in dawning clarity? Who knows! But any consternation for lack of results or progress is born of the very ego/mind perspective from which you wish to free yourself. And don't beat yourself up about it, that's just more of the same. Shut up and sense the timeless presence in front of you. :wink:

So much of what Tolle and the other fine authors point to, is accepting the way things are however that may be. There is a sense within you not only that you are trapped, but that you are wasting your life in non-awareness. I'm betting that you feel shorted, or like a failure. Can you see the self condemnation in these beliefs? What part of Essential Being makes such judgments? (HInt: If you feel upset at your state of being you are staring at shadows rather than the light)

While it is futile to attempt to force a shift, time spent silently and openly observing the content and circumstances of this moment, free from the rose colored glasses of hope, fear and judgment, allows that shift (or dawning clarity) to happen naturally. Reaching for enlightenment is stepping out of the presence where clear perception might be realized. It is chasing butterflies that might be enjoyed by simply sitting still and allowing them to come to you.

Fear of running out of time is as much a distraction to clear awareness as judgment and condemnation. It's like demanding to learn patience and you want it right now. And looking for rewards in awareness is a fools errand. Check out the movie "Razor's Edge". Events in life from the perspective of awakened presence may change very little, but one's experience of those events can be dramatically different. Be patient. 40 years of pressing is not equal to 10 minutes of genuine patience.

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Re: I would like to overcome anxiety and depression

Post by kiki » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:59 am

Oswald2001 wrote:Throughout my life, too few times IMO, I have experienced some Paradigm Shifts. I have no clue why they came, when and how they did. But, I know I would still be stuck 'back there' unless those Paradigm Shifts showed up.

The question for me is, "How Do I Get My Paradigm Shift?".
That speaks volumes, doesn't it. They came when nothing was done to make things different, when ego simply abated and you were left in the natural state of awareness. It's all that struggle, all of that effort that keeps them at arms' length. The "I" wonders, wants, strives, struggles, and demands. What is happening within that creates and sustains this "I"? What is the dynamic that keeps the "I" going? Can it be spotted midstream as it makes its appearance? When all of this is seen as it is happening then there is the opportunity to no longer get hooked back into that dynamic and you are simply left in the clarity of ever-present awareness.
Webwanderer wrote:...time spent silently and openly observing the content and circumstances of this moment, free from the rose colored glasses of hope, fear and judgment, allows that shift (or dawning clarity) to happen naturally.
These are wise words - as good a teaching as you'll ever find.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
---

mikel
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Re: I would like to overcome anxiety and depression

Post by mikel » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:46 pm

Oswald wrote:

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE PARADIGM SHIFT.
I would be wary of beliefs and assumptions...

the more you find yourself saying I don't know, the more free you become.

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Re: I would like to overcome anxiety and depression

Post by weichen » Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:42 pm

I would just like to be able to return to work without being a nervous wreck and worrying that people will be asking me questions about why I was sick for so long and why I have been demoted.

If you see yourself being a nervous wreck already, then is it possible that you do whatever you could to relief that (e.g. jogging, eat well, watch comedy, talk to people on this forum, etc), and then surrender to the remaining portion (maybe 95%) of nervous wreckness? And fully experience being a nervous wreck? not experience being a nervous wreck from mental concepts about mad people (which you have watched in movies and read from fiction), but experience it first hand.

Experiencing being a nervous wreck is a blessing in desguise. Many people never had that chance in their life. Eckhart had that blessing. But the key is not to have a prejudice against such experience.

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Re: I would like to overcome anxiety and depression

Post by Suzanne » Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:28 am

Webwanderer wrote:any consternation for lack of results or progress is born of the very ego/mind perspective from which you wish to free yourself.

So much of what Tolle and the other fine authors point to, is accepting the way things are however that may be.

While it is futile to attempt to force a shift, time spent silently and openly observing the content and circumstances of this moment, free from the rose colored glasses of hope, fear and judgment, allows that shift (or dawning clarity) to happen naturally. Reaching for enlightenment is stepping out of the presence where clear perception might be realized.
Bull's eye, as usual! Ding Ding Ding! :)

I think you're enjoying classifying yourself as a seeker. When you really tire of it, you'll put it down and accept, without the judgement of yourself.

Sw Anand Devagni.
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Re: I would like to overcome anxiety and depression

Post by Sw Anand Devagni. » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:20 am

It is natural for things to get worse before they get better - to use Ken Wilber's phrase, the worse you feel on the way down, the better you feel when you wake up! It's all yin/yang.

I recommend Jim Marion's 'Putting on the Mind of Christ'.

Love,

D

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Re: I would like to overcome anxiety and depression

Post by fifi » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:43 pm

Depression to me feels likes a 'hibernating' phase, Like when the trees go to sleep for the winter. All 'will power' (which is associated with the water element)has been sucked from under the feet. 'the lowest point' is associated with downward moving energy, thats how I came to realize why I felt deadlike from the top 'down'. When acceptance and fully feeling of this phase is realized, spring returns. :)

Anxiety is an Earth imbalance. earth controls the water element, (earth displaces water)when your living in your head, you tend not to 'feel' the downward movement of energy. Instead your spinning around. so you have a spinning downward spiral. To move on upwards and outwards(like the growth of a plant, first you have to be 'rooted' from your core(stomach/centre of earth energy)like imagine you have roots growing from there in meditation.
You can treat the earth(mother and nurture your roots, be in your body) to displace the water(which is associated with depression/). One way you can do this is eat a balanced whole food diet and meditate on earth qualities.(yellow/gold, nurturing, gathering, :arrow: :arrow: meditation of other energies,ripening, nourisment)

joy2U



And yes, I'm sure Ken Wilber is correct. As the bigger the back, the bigger the front.

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Re: I would like to overcome anxiety and depression

Post by entelechy » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:34 pm

I find this quite to be an interesting thread. I can see similarities in my own experiences.

What I have found is that whenever I feel something, (whatever it is), my coping style had always been to allow myself to feel it fully, as long as it is there. So when I am happy, I am REALLY happy, but if I am depressed, I am F***ing DEPRESSED. Like, BIG time. If I am depressed, I'm way down there, and I willingly go as low as I can. Hit rock bottom, so to speak. I dont care how low, and i dont care how messed up I end up, if i feel like being in that state, so what. Some may judge this as wallowing in negativity, however the advantage that I have found is that, because I really go deep into the experience of my negativities, I get sick of it within a relatively short period of time. So I get to that all important point quickly: Feeling I have had enough; that I got what I needed from it; I get to the point of KNOWING it wasn't working for me anymore, therefore there is no need for that any longer. And after that I bounce back, NEVER to go back ever again. And that's the beauty- it saves time, and it almost guarantees I never ever go down that road again.

Perhaps this is what many people do, only they don't realize it. They subconsciously seek crisis, drama, conflicts... because at a very deep level, they know that there is a path there that can lead to freedom, to the Truth? It's like the "game" that we play with the Universe: in order to know who we really are, we enter the world of form so we can experience who we are NOT.

The thing is that it gets more tricky when it comes to more subtle "sufferings" that we inflict upon ourselves. This is why being present, or even just watching our thoughts and feelings, is very important. Many of us suffer unknowingly, or suffer without knowing the source of our sufferings. In my experience, the moment I realise the dynamics underneath my behaviours, I was able to resolve the situation more quickly and more effectively.
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Re: I would like to overcome anxiety and depression

Post by Suzanne » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:23 am

entelechy wrote:I'm way down there, and I willingly go as low as I can. Hit rock bottom, so to speak. I dont care how low, and i dont care how messed up I end up, if i feel like being in that state, so what.
it saves time, and it almost guarantees I never ever go down that road again.
Welcome to the board, entelechy!

I have to admit I've done this a couple of times when it was time to let go of large, life-time attachments and hopes and losses, and you're right, it actually feels good, and then you find peace.

Please allow me to qualify that there is a therapeutic diagnosis of depression that is a serious condition and is not productive for anyone and should be treated by a professional. I'm taking your post to mean (and pixels are always limited!) that you're willing to feel the tearing away of a previous attachment and the deep loss and pain that is revealed. This is quite different from the chronic condition of depression. This is a very normal temporary human experience that most people needlessly put off for fear of annihilation. For me, it was the ending of my marriage, or what I had hoped from my marriage.

But it became much more than that. I didn't realize at the time that what I was actually processing was the end of youthful delusion that happiness could be found outside of me, specifically, through a partner or spouse. It was an acceptance that no deep, serious, permanent rescue would ever come from my attempts at personal relationships. And it was a tremendous relief. Now, I enjoy people for who they are, not for the inherant raw material for my own needs that I assume they have to offer to me, or withhold from me.

Eckhart talks about the pain body and burning up the ego with consciousness. I believe you're describing a kind of foundry where the hard metals inside you are melted down and reformed into lighter, softer shapes and forms. This ability to hold your ground and allow the demons to temporarily consume you will act in your life as a metamorphosis process, allowing you to emerge from one stage of life to another.

If this were the only lesson offered by Eckhart's teachings, that would be worthwhile enough to be a rescue for us all. Luckily, there are endless lessons hidden in his simple words. They seem to always be the lesson I need to learn today. :)
Stillness,
Suzanne

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entelechy
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Re: I would like to overcome anxiety and depression

Post by entelechy » Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:36 pm

Thanks for the warm welcome, Suzanne :)

Funny you mentioned you were depressed when your marriage ended, because that's exactly what happened to me, lol

Yes, you are right that what I meant in my post was that - I was "willing to feel the tearing away of a previous attachment and the deep loss and pain that is revealed". I am not sure if I was clinically depressed at that time, but it sure was the darkest, most painful hell I have put myself through. It lasted for about 2 months, which I think is relatively short. And that was the only time I ever went near feeling "depressed". I've had it and it was NASTY, so uh-uh... I wouldn't do that ever again even if someone offers to pay me :P

Initially I took it out on me. Everything was MY fault. I hated myself, despised myself, judged myself. My then husband was deeply insecure, which caused him to act in ways that caused various problems within the relationship - and I blamed myself for all of it. In fact, I blamed myself for every wrong choice he made. By the time he ended the relationship, I completely lost my self-esteem and even my self-respect. I hadn't read TPON yet when this happened, so I wasn't that aware of presence and the power of surrender. However, I had enough common sense to accept things as they were. Whenever I felt anything, I would stop and reflect why I felt that way. What was the belief system that supported that "attack thought"? What is this belief based on? Is that true or false? How could I see it differently? How could I choose differently? At first it was hard because I made everything about my little self ("he cheated on me cos I am UGLY! Cos I am not good enough! Cos there is obviously something wrong with me!"), but eventually I realized that I had to learn how to see things differently, and make different choices, if I genuinely wanted positive changes to happen to my life situation.

Like you, I learned how to be more responsible and proactive, and to rely on me for my own happiness, rather than looking for it outside of myself. I have also learned how to be more compassionate and accepting of other people, and learned that people do what they do irrespective of me, so I have stopped taking anything personally. I was able to forgive my ex husband, and let go all of the dramas and traumas I carried from the "failed" relationship.

Now, I am with the most loving, compassionate, affectionate, progressive, communicative, drop-dead gorgeous boyfriend who also cooks great healthy meals and is thoughtful enough to do most of the household chores! lol... Now I see that if my ex didn't mess up, I wouldn't have had the fortune to meet this wonderful man! :D
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Re: I would like to overcome anxiety and depression

Post by Suzanne » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:28 am

entelechy wrote: I learned that people do what they do irrespective of me, so I have stopped taking anything personally. I was able to forgive my ex husband, and let go all of the dramas and traumas I carried from the "failed" relationship.
This is probably the most freeing part of Eckhart's teachings. Until you stop taking everything personally, you can't forgive. But that means you also can't forgive yourself, because in order to keep someone else on the blame see-saw, you have to stay on it, yourself. In other words, if you allow your mind to condemn someone else for their transgression, you have to also take blame for yours. Living like that has no light, no love, no fun.

You've learned all this decades before I did. And so you'll have decades more peace.

People are doing what they do for unconscious reasons, and we're all wasting our lives taking it all personally. Because if each of us stops doing or refusing to do whatever others are reacting to, they'll just go find someone else to play the blame game with.

What a relief to get off that roller coaster!
Suzanne

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Re: I would like to overcome anxiety and depression

Post by Cleis Pearce » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:25 pm

Hi ...This is my first reply...... when I was at a very hard place I came to realize that the only true thing right then was to breathe in and then to breathe out. Also yoga nidra is so helpful ... truly relaxing refreshes our outlook and also swimming laps pulled me through another very hard patch after a long terifying illness and I had to drag myself to the pool day after day. Just thought I'd put out a few of my little self careing hints.All best wishes .Cp<

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Re: I would like to overcome anxiety and depression

Post by Suzanne » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:35 pm

Welcome to the board, Cleis! :D I hope your illness is in the past and you're feeling better.
I think there is always a good side to a bad situation. It sounds like you've had to find your inner self where there is strength and trust. You'll never have to doubt that, again, and so, I'll assume that the little things don't get you down anymore.

Eckhart gives the same advice in his books and lectures, so, you'll get aggreement here, I'm sure.

Eckhart says that these difficult times send us toward spirituality. I'm sure you have a great deal you can share with others here. Thanks for posting!

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