Science and Technolgy

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sudhi
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Science and Technolgy

Post by sudhi » Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:35 pm

I have just completed reading the 'Power of now'. Got really inspired by the book, and then found this forum.

In his book Tolle mentioned that, if all the peoples are enlightened the science and technology may cease to exist. That was a disturbing remark for me.
Does he mean that science and technology is not all important?. With out science and technology we will be still staying in caves!. If some one gives me an option of staying caves in an enlightened state and staying in the modern world with the present ego mind, I would rather choose the second one.

Would like to have your feed back on this..

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Webwanderer
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Re: Science and Technolgy

Post by Webwanderer » Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:43 pm

First off, welcome to the forum suhdi. Good to have you with us.

On your point about science and technology, I'm not sure about the context in which Tolle spoke; but consider if everyone were "enlightened" then life would be perceived quite differently. How much technology is needed in a dream?

It's does seem impractical to live in the world of form without any science or technology. Even the simplest things require a certain science, and the simplest tools are forms of technology. I would even venture to say that one of the mind's basic functions is the science of figuring out the workings of the world of form. What exactly is the best way to pluck an apple from the tree?

However, as science and technology may or may not run amuck in the hands of an ego centric mind, it is to compare living in the Garden of Eden to Darth Vader's universe of empire and slavery.

Of course it's all speculation, even on Tolle's part. The world and life is as it is, a mixture of light and darkness. And there is nothing wrong with the way things are unless we make it so. Who's to say what life's ultimate purpose may be? Eventually all of us will leave technology behind when we leave the world of form. Will that leaving guarentee enlightenment? Or is there still other, more subtle worlds awaiting? I can't say I "know" the answers, but I certainly like the questions.

Meanwhile our best perspective here and now is to remain clear of all judgments in our perception of this moment, whatever it contains.

(edit: had to fix a broken sentence)

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Kutso
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Re: Science and Technolgy

Post by Kutso » Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:58 pm

I seriously doubt that technology will cease to exist. As Webwanderer pointed out, even the simplest of things is technology. For instance an axe to cut down a tree is technology.
But maybe what Tolle means is that advanced technology may seize to exist. Maybe we will have no more use of it. Maybe the technology we have will stop advancing, cause everybody just accept everything as it is. Everything is fine as it is.
Anyway, it's pointless in discussing it. Because that's not how it is right now anyway.

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D'ray
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Re: Science and Technolgy

Post by D'ray » Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:37 pm

“Technology is destructive only in the hands of people who do not realize that they are one and the same process as the universe.”

Alan Watts.

Generally I don't like the way how Tolle speaks about "the new consciousness", for example he says that entertainment wouldn't exist anymore because we don't need it. Maybe I don't get it, but I don't see anything bad about entertainment if you don't try shut down your mind with it.
There's no "I" to become enlightened. The "I" can have spiritual experiences.

DON'T resist the RESISTANCE! The resistance is there. Walk into it. Feel it. Become one with it.

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Re: Science and Technolgy

Post by dubhasa » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:08 pm

Webwanderer wrote: And there is nothing wrong with the way things are unless we make it so.
For some reason, I just do not understand this statement. Even from higher spiritual level, why is suffering in the world; like ; violence, burning of the churches with kids(Kenya), assasinations of political leaders, not wrong? Are sufferings, intense pain, loneliness, helplessness not legitimate experiences for human beings? Why are they not wrong when majority of the populace is helplessly engulfed in it?

Don't we have anything in this world which can be considered as wrong from unbiased perspective whether one is spiritual or not? Are wrongs different for common man and enlightened man? ( or woman?).

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Re: Science and Technolgy

Post by Kutso » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:40 pm

dubhasa wrote:Don't we have anything in this world which can be considered as wrong from unbiased perspective whether one is spiritual or not?
It is only wrong if you make it wrong. All these things you speak of is wrong, for the mind. But for the universe there is no such thing as right or wrong. Everything just happens as it happens. A black hole may swallow an entire galaxy. Is the black hole wrong in doing so? Is it evil? It is neither. It just happens as it happens.

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coriolis
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Re: Science and Technolgy

Post by coriolis » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:07 pm

D'ray wrote: Generally I don't like the way how Tolle speaks about "the new consciousness", for example he says that entertainment wouldn't exist anymore because we don't need it. Maybe I don't get it, but I don't see anything bad about entertainment if you don't try shut down your mind with it.

There isn't anything "bad" about entertainment. But Tolle is right, when you're present you don't need it or have any desire for it. The need to "be entertained" comes from the thought that one's mind/attention needs to be "occupied" with "something". In stillness (presence) that thought is just a thought and the need to be "entertained" (ie. mentally or emotionally stimulated by something) evaporates. Entertainment isn't bad at all. It just looses most of it's appeal when one is present.
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin

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Kutso
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Re: Science and Technolgy

Post by Kutso » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:00 pm

coriolis wrote:There isn't anything "bad" about entertainment. But Tolle is right, when you're present you don't need it or have any desire for it. The need to "be entertained" comes from the thought that one's mind/attention needs to be "occupied" with "something". In stillness (presence) that thought is just a thought and the need to be "entertained" (ie. mentally or emotionally stimulated by something) evaporates. Entertainment isn't bad at all. It just looses most of it's appeal when one is present.
Well said coriolis. Desire. That's just it, isn't it? And to be enlightened is to desire nothing. Even entertainment.

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weichen
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Re: Science and Technolgy

Post by weichen » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:39 pm

I remember reading this quote from Tolle. I think he thinks "much of the technology" may disappear. I don't think he refered to "science".

I agree with Tolle that indeed is possible. Certainly much of the weapon may disappear. Even essential technology such as telephone may not be needed. You may not need to call your parents oversea anymore. Door lock may not be needed as people inside a building, a block, a city live like a single family. Radio or TV may greatly reduce, as people are mainly silent.

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Re: Science and Technolgy

Post by Webwanderer » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:55 pm

dubhasa wrote:
Webwanderer wrote: And there is nothing wrong with the way things are unless we make it so.
For some reason, I just do not understand this statement. Even from higher spiritual level, why is suffering in the world; like ; violence, burning of the churches with kids(Kenya), assasinations of political leaders, not wrong? Are sufferings, intense pain, loneliness, helplessness not legitimate experiences for human beings? Why are they not wrong when majority of the populace is helplessly engulfed in it?

Don't we have anything in this world which can be considered as wrong from unbiased perspective whether one is spiritual or not? Are wrongs different for common man and enlightened man? ( or woman?).
Sure, there's lots of stuff in the world that qualifies as right or wrong; but only from a limited perspective, a perspective that separates one person from another, or separates a person from that which is judged as wrong.

So long as one sees any given conditions in the world with clarity, those conditions need not be seen in terms of right and wrong, but rather as cause and effect. Wrong is a judgment that only serves to isolate the event from the perceiver, it is not inherent in the conditions.

Kutso is clear in his post. If the murder of a single child is wrong, how wrong is the destruction of galaxy, or planet, or city. Is the difference merely individual willfulness? If so, can we truly know the nature of the murderers blindness? For the most part it's beyond our capacity to see the details of anothers motivations; but we can understand that pain and suffering is born of ignorance as to life's true nature. So if we find ourselves in a state of judment concerning some event, it offers an opportunity to free ourselves from the ego/minds separating energy. In that understanding we may be much more effective in bringing harmony to the world at hand.

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Kutso
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Re: Science and Technolgy

Post by Kutso » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:03 pm

Webwanderer wrote:So long as one sees any given conditions in the world with clarity, those conditions need not be seen in terms of right and wrong, but rather as cause and effect. Wrong is a judgment that only serves to isolate the event from the perceiver, it is not inherent in the conditions.
Great couple of lines, imo.

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dubhasa
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Re: Science and Technolgy

Post by dubhasa » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:38 pm

Thanks Webwanderer and Kutso. Good reading.

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BrahmanEternal
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Re: Science and Technolgy

Post by BrahmanEternal » Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:50 am

How wrong are billions of animals being slaughtered? Oh wait, did i see anyone blink , nah.
When harm is done to us our judging eyes are opened, and when harm is done to others they are not so opened any more,
In most cases It is only wrong when harm is done to the ego.
So what is the point of right and wrong?
Is there any real authority of it?
Judgment appears as wrong, like a tree appears before the forest and the whole forest appears only as one tree, one needs to change at this basic level and accept this truth or not change at all by becomming a spiritual masturbator who judges selectively.
Free of need to be Free.

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