Red Flags

Talk about anything Tolle-related here.
Post Reply
NowIsNotForSale
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:19 am

Red Flags

Post by NowIsNotForSale » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:51 am

Hi, Im new to this board, (and have been reading posts over the past 2 months- but hey thats in the past).

I have also been listening to heaps of Eckhart audio and video and also re-reading PON over & over etc for (again the past) last 3 years.

Several things I "thought" of:


SOURCING THE MATERIAL AND RE-DESCRIBING IT FOR A WESTERN AUDIENCE.
1) the idea of power of now, is similar to heaps of other texts.

I like the book, yet I feel it comes across to me as a very neatly written, algorhythmically well formulated, mathematically sound, neat little self-referencing essay, that encapsulates simple spiritual principles from other texts, much like many books written by people who have extensively studied a field, and "re-described" it for the lay person (Carlos Castaneda http://sustainedaction.org/intro.htm comes to mind).

CHANGE PERSONAL HISTORY/NAME
Many authors who do this, get source material, template and filter it into a simple logic and set of descriptions, then build a nice little pseudo -personal history about themselves to fit with thier status as "author".

I get the feeling that Eckhart Tolle has somewhat bullshitted about his "enlightenment experience" as well as changing his name (for whatever reason from Ulrich to Eckhart) , and, being an academic, has deliberately engineered much of his work, via extensive study, to appear as if it is generated from his genuine elightenment.

I feel that he just is another author/teacher who has "cracked the code" of re-packaging old stuff and re-inventing himself as the source of it.

check out : http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/

I really like tolle yet can definately see a deliberate engineering that has taken many years to build, much like what castaneda has done, amongst others, however tolle genuinely seems to be no ego- driven.

Something about him and his work, just doesnt quite seem natural or genuine to me

Although I like the big gaps, he leaves in between his words, very original.

any one else feel the same? or different?
Last edited by NowIsNotForSale on Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Onceler
Posts: 2257
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:35 am
Location: My house

Re: Red Flags

Post by Onceler » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:05 pm

any one else feel the same? or different?
Sure, I do sometimes. What we are talking about is slippery stuff. Either a writer hits you between your eyes, shuts down your mind, and opens your heart....or they don't.

Tolle has had the ability to do this with many people, myself included. I appreciated the simple, clear synthesis of many of the teachings I had read in the past. It was an "aha" moment for me to have all these disperate threads pulled together so powerfully.

I think that is the final question; does he speak to the awareness in you?
Be present, be pleasant.

NowIsNotForSale
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:19 am

Post by NowIsNotForSale » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:42 pm

.
Last edited by NowIsNotForSale on Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Onceler
Posts: 2257
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:35 am
Location: My house

Re: Red Flags

Post by Onceler » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:12 pm

A writer can do many things depending on the person reading. Your scope is too narrow , and either/or-ish.
Yes, it may be a binary decision at the onset of the investigation. But it does broaden in my experience.

I cannot comment on your relationship with his writings and your intutive/rational reaction. I also won't defend ET. He is what he is...you see him in a certain light and I respect that. How can I not?

(red flags accessorize well with many outfits)
Be present, be pleasant.

NowIsNotForSale
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:19 am

Re: Red Flags

Post by NowIsNotForSale » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:19 pm

.

User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6810
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: Red Flags

Post by Webwanderer » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:05 pm

Welcome to the forum NowIsNotForSale.

I don't know if Tolle invented himself, sat on a park bench, underwent a transformational awakening, or was ever a professor of anything. In truth I don't really care.

Truth, in its Essential Nature, is unchanging. So all statements pointing to Truth are going to have fundamental similarities, no matter who does the pointing.

What I do know about Tolle is that when I read his words, or listened to his talks, I was deeply moved. Presence and clarity dawned in awareness with a richness that did not previously exist in my experience. I could see time and me/self for the concepts that they are. I awoke out of the experience of life based on memories and imaginings, and saw directly into this moment. My perception on life changed. I am no longer a victim, and in that there is a wonderful freedom to live in a world of wonder.

So how is it that the pointing of Tolle had an effect that 30 years of other teachers did not? I'm sure ripeness had something to do with it, but I think it also true that Tolle spoke from a deep harmony and clarity with the very presence he was pointing to. Many say the same words and point to the same eternal truths, but somehow lack the enlivening energy that comes through Tolle. It seems the difference is the genuine alignment and presence with ones Essential Nature engenders words with a power that ego/mind cannot.

There are of course others that speak with the same power as Tolle, many are mentioned in this forum. In fact, it seems there is a glut of fine teachers in the world now. All the better. So Tolle is not exclusive, nor does he claim to be. Does he repackage old truths? Or does he just see directly the same truths that are forever present? Maybe some of both, depending on how one views it. In any case it is incumbant on each of us to make our own discoveries, directly, without regard to the nature of the pointer. Maybe ones own unique perspective will influance each of us to repackage those truths, directly seen, in our own way.

User avatar
erict
Site-Admin
Site-Admin
Posts: 1812
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:24 pm
Location: Israel
Contact:

Re: Red Flags

Post by erict » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:18 pm

I thought enlightenment was something universal, and not copyrighted/trademarked/patented...

PS:
Actually, I just read WW's post and realized that I've absolutely nothing to add. :)
"Be sincere; don't ask questions out of mere interest. Ask dangerous questions—the ones whose answers could change your life."

User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4587
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Re: Red Flags

Post by kiki » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:54 am

I always knew ET was saying what others have said, and he certainly never claimed any of it was original. But reading about this stuff 35 years ago (from others who may have repackaged it themselves) never "delivered the goods" like his way of explaining, pointing, and teaching. The question one has to ask themselves is this: how has it impacted your life? I could give a rat's a@s if it was "repackaged" as long as it lead me out of how I used to experience life and into a deeper appreciation and experience of reality, and that's precisely what it did. I do not doubt his awakening experience at all based on my own experiences.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
---

weichen
Posts: 734
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:37 am
Location: NYC

Re: Red Flags

Post by weichen » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:27 pm

NowIsNotForSale,
Interesting topics. I have a few comments.

1. There is no personal transformation beyond repackaging.
When a person is in deep peace, the portal is open. that is to say the following components gets automatically repackaged in this moment:
a.all the books he has read (Tolle did mention some books he read when he was a teenager), b.all the past life experience
c. the present moment experience

In this process of repackaging, the present pain is dissolved and past pain is also reduced (one's past life experience is altered). Repackaging is pesonal transformation.

When I use the word "repackaging", I use it in the sense of what happened to Tolle. Not what happened to other writers whose repackaging is not through peace.

2. Repackaging lead to new form.
Repackaging sometimes means new associations. Tolle gives new meanings to the spiritual texts in the Bible.
Repackaging sometimes means new structure. In mathematics, "multiplication" can be seen as a repackaging of "addition", rules of multiplcation are based on rules of addition. But this is a hell of a giant step forward. Each step of repackaging lead to better form that saves space. Tolle introduced a key new concept "painbody", this is not new, just as "multiplication" is not really new beyond "addition".


3. Did Tolle invent his story of awakening?
Of course he did, words are distortion, they can not truly describe any experience, but he did the best he could. He described his awakening as a sudden and complete withdraw from the old dominant habit of identifying with a miserable self (with the help from the force of extraordinary suffering). To people who have similar experience, this is quite ordinary. Some readers do not like this description because deep down they do not believe such "once and for all" personal transformation. That was not Tolle meant, in Tolle's interview, he said that it took him ten years to integrate the initial change into his life, so this was not really once and for all. Tolle also said that depth of enlightenment has no end. So whoever think Tolle cheat the public is really due to a misunderstanding of what Tolle has said.

4. Is there self-serving in Tolle's behavior?
Tolle's behavior is not really a single person anymore, he needs to compromise with other people who has a money interest in his success.

User avatar
mistral
Posts: 330
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:58 pm

Re: Red Flags

Post by mistral » Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:54 pm

Me too, I noticed right away that Tolle's work sounded almost word for word identical to the book "A Guide To Awareness and Tranquillity" by William Samuel, which were written at least 35 years ago. However, I had to console myself in knowing that it does not matter by 'what venue' the Truth reaches out and finds those who want it. Now I am just glad to know that the Light is expanding and touching greater numbers of us...or in other words, I am just happy that a 'sea change' is now taking place via some like Oprah and Eckhart, no matter by what means this is happening, it is happening and it has all got be for a grand and greater Good, and because of Grace in all things.... I am very sure.

Peace and Joy, Mistral

NowIsNotForSale
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:19 am

Re: Red Flags

Post by NowIsNotForSale » Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:42 am

thankyou everyone for your replies, I really like Eckhart Tolle and his work, I dont mean to excessively criticise.

It is undoubtedly some of the best I have learnt from. I have read and learned from other authors and have been ultimately dissapointed by them, maybe im still recovering from that.

I am still learning.



I appreciate everyones responses, thank you again.

Oswald2001
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:11 am

Re: Red Flags

Post by Oswald2001 » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:46 pm

Tolle has never claimed that he discovered anything new.

There is a way that things are. There is an unalterable reality underlying all the illusion.

Just as there is The UNREAL...there is...The REAL.

1 + 1 = 2 and this will always be so.

And there will always be teachers required to show the new generations that come along that 1 + 1 = 2.

The nature of Life, Mankind and Egos necessitate many different teachers with many different approaches to teach the same thing. 1 + 1 = 2.

Tolle is simply one of the countless teachers that have been before, are here now and will continue to come. He has never represented himself as anything else as far as I know.





"That which has been is that which will be, And that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun."

-- Ecclesiastes 1:9

Sandiegojoereal
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:36 am

Re: Red Flags

Post by Sandiegojoereal » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:49 am

All this analysis is an egoic delay tactic.

None of the flags are relevant.

Does his writing/talks help you become Present?

Are you able to quiet your mind yet?

If so the answer will be clear, and your questions will dissolve along with the flags.

Post Reply