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Some Tough Questions

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:35 am
by garuda
If a wisdom teacher like Eckhart writes a book on Truth. And if we truly believe that the whole of the Truth is contained within the book. And if the teachings in the book tell us that the ultimate answer is contained deep within each of us. Then what is the point of searching for this Truth outside of ourselves? Or in another book? Or another teacher? Or in another place? Or in another time? Or in another search? Or in any other source?

If we continue the search outside of ourselves — which is what ego-mind seems to do — while every wisdom tradition exhorts that the sum of the Truth is within us — then are we actually searching for the real Truth, or just pursuing another distraction to keep us from learning that ultimate Truth? I think honesty is the requisite for answering this question correctly.

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Could anyone offer their views or opinions about the questions above? Thanks in advance.

Re: Some Tough Questions

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:52 pm
by weichen
if we truly believe that the whole of the Truth is contained within the book
Tolle said, it is important to read the book frequently, but it is MORE important to put the book down. The truth is not inside the book, but inside the letting go of thoughts.

in the next one million years, human is going to make progress in science and technology that today's human mind will not even be able to dream about, but all these new discovery happens because the inventors are able to afford at least a tiny gap of peace, thus allow the unmanifested to manifest. The details of new science and technology in the next one million years is not within the book PON, but how this new science and technology comes is.

Re: Some Tough Questions

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:22 pm
by D'ray
Ecky and the others are pointing to the truth. Not telling the truth because it is impossible with words.

Re: Some Tough Questions

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:24 pm
by BrahmanEternal
Most of us here understand that thoughts need to stop and then something will happen but as Echart says : Is it true for you?
Who says there is no truth or method ? I know people who experienced samadhi on heroine and LSD but had to go to mental hospital for few weeks or years,
but as the name suggest heorine will make you feel like a hero only for one night and then like all fleeting forms those temporary feelings will pass and then what?

I think the main goal here and Truth here on this planet is Pain Body and how we deal with it, because of pain bodies suffering starts so we need to learn how to cultivate acceptance of pain body and realize the truth from there which is accepting the unacceptable and heaven and earth will be bridged then.

If you go around life with this Accept-Unacceptable attitude then one does not depend on math of her astral body calculations but walks unshakable independent of sweetness of incomming forms.

Re: Some Tough Questions

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:56 pm
by gretta
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"Anything can function as a door to "Now" - a tree speaks eloquently, waves talk to me all the time. Also, the truth comes to me invisibly, I read it without needing my eyes, I hear it without using my ears." DBerkow

lovely quote (((smiles)))

ahh Love

gretta

Re: Some Tough Questions

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:41 pm
by coriolis
garuda wrote: If we continue the search outside of ourselves — which is what ego-mind seems to do — while every wisdom tradition exhorts that the sum of the Truth is within us — then are we actually searching for the real Truth, or just pursuing another distraction to keep us from learning that ultimate Truth? I think honesty is the requisite for answering this question correctly.
To the ego, what we have always considered ourselves to be, this inner stillness is no less than the emptiness and annihilation of death and will therefore always be seen as "the last resort" to a mind made construct that is only aware of it's own existence via the abstraction of a subject-object dichotomy.

It may be that some lose their ego entirely before physical death, but I haven't lost it.
It seems indispensable for functioning in the "world" that has been created by thought and propagated by language.
Without it there would be no thoughts or words, just the stillness that has not need to know, much less speak.

When I look on the "inner" side of the imaginary membrane that separates inner from outer I still see ego there and it still wants what it always wanted, namely to be special, distinct, have more than and be better than others. But in this "seeing it for what it is" it becomes what it is --- just a bundle of thoughts and their emotional echoes arising and passing away in the space of now.

An ego will always want to pursue a new teaching, therapy, method, meditation, or exercise to avoid facing the (to it) unacceptable void of actual truth that (to it) is annihilation.
Yet that which "sees" the ego is untroubled, complete, and never needs anything "more".

Re: Some Tough Questions

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:29 am
by Foxtrot
If a wisdom teacher like Eckhart writes a book on Truth
He didn't as I see it. He wrote a couple of books that point to the truth and also the false in people, to help them see the difference and choose wisely.
And if we truly believe that the whole of the Truth is contained within the book
Nothing contains the whole of the truth.

And if the teachings in the book tell us that the ultimate answer is contained deep within each of us.
It is. Atleast in my experience
Then what is the point of searching for this Truth outside of ourselves? Or in another book? Or another teacher? Or in another place? Or in another time? Or in another search? Or in any other source?
This would be best for you to ask yourself daily and find your own answer whithin, although I suspect you already know the answer.
If we continue the search outside of ourselves — which is what ego-mind seems to do — while every wisdom tradition exhorts that the sum of the Truth is within us — then are we actually searching for the real Truth, or just pursuing another distraction to keep us from learning that ultimate Truth? I think honesty is the requisite for answering this question correctly.
Replace the words "we" and "us" to "I" and "me" so that you are asking this inwardly. Isn't finding your own answers, your own truth, to these questions really what you want? If all the wisdom teachers and traditions all say to find the truth inside yourself, then why not try looking there, instead of continuing your search outside yourself, which is what you are doing by asking these questions here.

The word " Truth " with a capital " T " when used by a spiritual teacher or text, is not synonymous with the word facts. The Truth is what you are, and no words used to define or describe the Truth of You, can come close to your realization of this.

Re: Some Tough Questions

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:21 am
by BrahmanEternal
coriolis wrote: An ego will always want to pursue a new teaching, therapy, method, meditation, or exercise to avoid facing the (to it) unacceptable void of actual truth that (to it) is annihilation.
Yet that which "sees" the ego is untroubled, complete, and never needs anything "more".
And yet in this annihilation is what ego always desired.
Whenever i get close to the present moment my Ego will say "but i cant just go into the void, i need to control things, i need to make money, i want security, no no chance..... i m gonna think some more" and then thoughts start spinning like crazy.
I m still clueless how to make peace agreement between Egos desire for security , which is rational because bills need to be paid, and the unconditional peace and love of Spirit.

Re: Some Tough Questions

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:35 am
by Webwanderer
BrahmanEternal wrote:I m still clueless how to make peace agreement between Egos desire for security , which is rational because bills need to be paid, and the unconditional peace and love of Spirit.
Brahman, I found this useful - maybe you will too:

Have you ever been so absorbed in a television show that you were unaware of being on your chair or sofa? Most of us know the experience. Well the next time your watching an engaging show withdraw your attention back into the room and recognize the moment. Then return to watching your program from the present awareness of being in the room.

The point of this little exercise is to recognize experiencially the perspective of presence-awareness as distinct from absorbtion into a story actively running within ones mind. The identifying pull of a TV show or movie is not so hypnotizing as is the full sensual experience of life in direct contact with form, but the comparison of the engagement of two senses (sight and sound) plus emotion, with that of five senses plus emotion; still offers a similarly comparitive perspective.

If you gain some clarity on the nature of mind-story free awareness as related to TV movies, you may take it with you in your contact with other events and experiences in your life. The watchful nature of clear awareness is always available once one recognizes the inherent ability to observe while current events play out, even though one may be actively engaged with the activity.

Re: Some Tough Questions

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:01 am
by no won
Thanks for the above Webw. some very relevant pointers in there.

Re: Some Tough Questions

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:21 am
by garuda
coriolis wrote: An ego will always want to pursue a new teaching, therapy, method, meditation, or exercise to avoid facing the (to it) unacceptable void of actual truth that (to it) is annihilation.
Yet that which "sees" the ego is untroubled, complete, and never needs anything "more".
Coriolis,

Your words sound correct.

And, Coriolis, I would love to reply to your words, but I just noticed a problem. I accidently left my dinner dishes out last night with food still on them — which attracted a swarm of gnats. I must go now to take my flat-panel screen over to the computer repair shop before they close today. :lol:

Re: Some Tough Questions

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:55 pm
by coriolis
garuda wrote: I accidently left my dinner dishes out last night with food still on them — which attracted a swarm of gnats. I must go now to take my flat-panel screen over to the computer repair shop before they close today. :lol:
My gnat is certainly less intimidating in appearance than your Garuda, though perhaps more irritating -- :wink:

Re: Some Tough Questions

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:54 pm
by garuda
Actually, I find your “gnat” to be an excellent training aid, or reality check. When I find myself irritated with it, I realize that I have lost my presence. So it can serve as a great reminder of our current state of present awareness.

Plus..... It sometimes makes me laugh because it reminds me of my occasional monkey mind that also runs about in figure-8s.

Re: Some Tough Questions

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:24 am
by garuda
coriolis wrote:It may be that some lose their ego entirely before physical death, but I haven't lost it.
It seems indispensable for functioning in the "world" that has been created by thought and propagated by language.
Without it there would be no thoughts or words, just the stillness that has not need to know, much less speak.
Some people (aptly) say that my explanations are often too lengthy. So.... for economy of words I sometimes skip over details and specificity, which can cause confusion.

You did an good job with your succinct description. I often make the mistake of saying, in the interest of brevity, something like “extinguishing or destroying the ego-mind is the goal” which is technically wrong, in the view of the manifested — and can be misleading to others. I am erroneously assuming the reader understands something that I take for granted. What I probably should say is, “dismantling or destroying the 'identification' with the ego-mind is one approach or goal." The mind is okay so long as we don’t exclusively think it is the actual “I” or “me.” I think you are correct when stating that the “fundamental” thinking mind is necessary to function in the manifest world — useful in the sense that it helps the physical body find the toothbrush in the morning. I suspect you already know all about this.

You said it well. Perhaps I should take some lessons from you.

Re: Some Tough Questions

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:12 am
by garuda
coriolis wrote:My gnat is certainly less intimidating in appearance than your Garuda, though perhaps more irritating -- :wink:
Coriolis,

I thought we were both on the same page...... until you deemed my “garuda” as being intimidating. Look closer, I don't think it's all that intimidating. I guess we can’t always see eye-to-eye on everything. :lol: