Vegetarian

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garuda
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by garuda » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:01 pm

Natalie wrote:Something quite mysterious has happened to me since I last posted on this thread.

Three or so days ago, I found myself slowly drifting back to some old and unhealthy eating habits.... When I became aware of this shift, I felt deep gratitude and sent a quick mental prayer of thanks to the Universe for allowing this surrender to take place. I also asked the Universe for “help” with my food issues. Nothing else happened and I went about my day.

The next day I became aware that I had no desire to eat beef... pork chops... chicken....
Any thoughts on what could have had happened?

Natalie

Hello again, Natalie,

We conditioned humans are naturally curious about the events and experiences in our lives. That’s normal. But I've asked myself this question countless times when it happens to me: "Is it particularly helpful to over-analyze the small and great wonders and miracles that occur around us and to us everyday?" Would it be an economy of energy and help promote more delight in my life if I simply accepted the small miracles with an unspoken feeling of joy, instead of placing too much of my attention on the cascading mental thoughts about it all --- which tends to rip me out of that splendid moment of awe and wonder when immersed in the miracle of that now moment experience? Does it matter whether I understand it all; or whether it sync's with other people's experience, as if checking to see if I'm okay? In your example, I try to enjoy the delight and joy of the shift away from meat and toward the revisited appetite for the vegetables and fruits, while retaining gratitude for the small miracle given to me. Too often I catch myself spending too much time analyzing the contents of the moment instead of expeiencing the natural joy, and wonder of feeling the essence of the miracle-event within that moment.

I liked what you said about becoming more aware, thanking the universe, feeling deep gratitude, and petitioning the universe for more help with your challenges. This I think defers our mental commentaries on the miracles before us, and plunges us into that mystery in which the miracles iminate. I try to stay in the mystery, remain quietly grateful for the miracles, and bask in the present moment of felt joy and delight. I wish you the same simple joy in all your experiences and miracles.
Recognize present awareness......... rest in that awareness..........don’t become distracted.

Dan_Clizer
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by Dan_Clizer » Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:48 am

Beautifully said garuda!

Love,
Dan

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Natalie
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by Natalie » Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:05 am

We conditioned humans are naturally curious about the events and experiences in our lives. That’s normal. But I've asked myself this question countless times when it happens to me: "Is it particularly helpful to over-analyze the small and great wonders and miracles that occur around us and to us everyday?" Would it be an economy of energy and help promote more delight in my life if I simply accepted the small miracles with an unspoken feeling of joy, instead of placing too much of my attention on the cascading mental thoughts about it all --- which tends to rip me out of that splendid moment of awe and wonder when immersed in the miracle of that now moment experience? Does it matter whether I understand it all; or whether it sync's with other people's experience, as if checking to see if I'm okay? In your example, I try to enjoy the delight and joy of the shift away from meat and toward the revisited appetite for the vegetables and fruits, while retaining gratitude for the small miracle given to me. Too often I catch myself spending too much time analyzing the contents of the moment instead of expeiencing the natural joy, and wonder of feeling the essence of the miracle-event within that moment
This really clarifies things for me garuda. Very helpful post. Accepting with joy is definitely the direction I should be headed with this shift in my eating habits. I do just that with several other changes/shifts happening to me in other areas of my life. I will just observe the “curiosity” when it comes and see what happens. Thanks.

Have a question for seasoned vegetarians. I was (am) a very low carb eater. For years, my meals have consisted of salads and generous portions of grilled meats/poultry. I miss the long lasting feeling of fullness animal protein gave me, 5, 6 hrs or more. I now find myself hungry every couple of hours and find the planning and preparation of meatless meals quite cumbersome. I am really not looking forward to supplementing my diet by adding carbs, simple or complex, hate carbs.There is a lot of thought process and effort involved in addressing feelings of hunger every couple of hours and I am not particularly enjoying the process. Perhaps is time for a good vegetarian recipes book.

Something doesn’t feel right. I feel this process should be more joyous. I know, I know, I am over-analyzing and checking to see if I am ok again, but I am seriously considering a deliberate relapse.
Any thoughts??????

Natalie

runstrails
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by runstrails » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:56 pm

Hi Nat,
There are some wonderful carbs believe it or not. Really complex carbs like lentils, chickpeas, quinoa, (old world grains, I believe these are called) that are very filling. Anything that has a lot of naturally insoluble fiber is really filling and good for you. Plus, I also always have fruits on hand to snack on. You body will take a while to adapt to the change in eating habits. So don't do anything drastic. Just so you know, I do eat turkey and fish now and then. But it just feels more pleasant to eat natural, delicious fruits and veggies and whole grains. Conscious eating is so lovely. Of course, there are times when its not possible (work, kids etc..) but those few meals I have eaten consciously have been very special.

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Natalie
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by Natalie » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:40 am

Thanks rt. I enjoy fish ocassionally as well and would kill right now for one of those smoked turkey legs they sell at state fairs. :)
Funny how I can now see my ego trying to make a big deal of this experience and assuming its leadership role in the victimization department (why me? ...why is this transition so dificult for me? hahaha,,,, my old MO.) What a pleasure is to observe that.

i really appreciate your reply. It helped me realize nothing is ever black or white, everything is grey. Thanks

Garfed
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by Garfed » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:17 am

I think this is a distraction to the main thread / streaming from the spiritual realization. As mentioned in the Second World War, when it comes to awareness, we needed to focus on eating the "fruit of good and evil, " Holy Communion...

Border Collie
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by Border Collie » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:36 pm

Garfed wrote:I think this is a distraction to the main thread / streaming from the spiritual realization. As mentioned in the Second World War, when it comes to awareness, we needed to focus on eating the "fruit of good and evil, " Holy Communion...
I dont understand this post. Would you care to add clarification?

How are any discussion threads which are of interest and value to posters, a distraction?

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Onceler
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by Onceler » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:49 pm

I like your nickname, Border Collie, to add to the distraction.
Be present, be pleasant.

Blenderhead
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by Blenderhead » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:55 am

I think this is an interesting subject. In christian cults animal sacfrifice was illegal and the buddha was also against it. There are also indications in the bible, that Jesus was a vegetarian. Many books have probably been written about this, if anyone is interested. I think being a vegetarian is closely connected to being spiritual. Human beings are not predators like lions. We cannot eat raw meat, we need to cook it in order to digest it. We also don't have any fangs like predators to rip up the prey nor do we have sharp teeth. When lions hunt they get ecstatic by the taste of blood and sharks get crazy too when there is blood in the water, humans do not behave like this. Many humans, who are a little present, would not be able to kill an animal and eat it if they had to do it themselves. So I see many indications that humans have just adapted to eating meat but we are not really predators by nature and we can quite easily break the habit and eat something else.

xkatex
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by xkatex » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:23 pm

I think with the issue of vegetarianism, situationism should certainly apply. In developing countries, for example, it's a lot harder to get hold of tofu or other foods that can be substitutes for the nutrients we lose out on when giving up meat. In the West, it's much easier to be a vegetarian and even cheaper in my experience. The law of supply and demand applies here, and if the slightly decreased demand for meat allows a couple less chickens to be killed, so much the better. Personally, I'm a vegetarian, but it's a matter of personal choice; my inner body happens not to feel ok with eating meat. But hey, if you like it and you don't feel guilt about it, then eat meat. Monks relying on alms are encouraged to take whatever food is given.

Obviously if you do eat meat, it's advisable to get free range so you know you're not actively contributing to the suffering of battery farm animals, but if you don't have the means then that's OK too.

It could be looked at in both ways:

You could say vegetarians who practice presence are more spiritually evolved because they are not avoiding the issue of animal suffering.

You could say that meat-eaters who practice presence are more spiritually evolved because they do not have issues with the guilt arising from eating animals.

The most important thing is that, whatever choice you make, you practice presence. That is the important part - practice it all the time!

Be present with your food choices. Presence has caused me to be vegetarian, it may not for you. Presence has caused people to give up studying, it certainly hasn't for me; I love it even more!
It's all different; the universe wants to manifest in different ways. Let it.

Peace everyone :)

Blenderhead
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by Blenderhead » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:43 pm

8) Excellent post, peace and good luck with your studies

usernameless
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by usernameless » Fri May 27, 2011 10:27 pm

This issue always attracts vigorous debate.
For me, it's interesting to see the energy, passion, emotion behind it all.
Always in spiritual circles, there are a few issues that many will really get into.
Environment, vegetarianism, materialism, etc;
The thing is, do what you're going to do, and that's all.
Realisation DOES NOT discriminate if you eat meat, recycle, buy too many shoes, volunteer, or whatever.
I'm not saying do or don't do any of these things.
Because you're basically going to do what you do.
Just don't get all righteous and argue that only veggies can awaken, or only hippies can awaken, or any of that bull.
It's just another distraction, something for ego to get behind, another us and them divider, when it gets to be
all rigid and militant like that.
A need to justify one's decisions to those who don't subscribe or to others within that milieu.
Alcoholic, wasteful, dog hating, meat eaters wake up.
And super healthy rawtarians that volunteer and compost and give up possessions and lord knows what else, can easily remain entirely
ignorant of their true nature, and wander aimlessly in delusion.
So do what you do, within reason, you know, sensible, balanced, middle way kind of thing, and focus on inner work to awaken.
And when you awaken, you will know, without a shadow of a doubt, that there is absolutely nothing wrong or defective with the world.
All is exactly as it is. As with so many paradoxes in spirituality, it doesn't mean you won't be moved to take action or be a veggie or whatever, but it does mean there will never again be the mistaken notion of a me at the helm - an I that is doing this or that, in control, saving the world, etc;

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HandfullaMinerals
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by HandfullaMinerals » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:11 pm

When I eat meat, in particular red meat like, it feels like it's taking more life energy to digest.

On another note, I do remember this other post about how you can force enlightenment by making garden weed tea or something. It's just more for the mind to chew on.

As usernameless says, you will do what you do anyway regardless of what you think.
It is the ego which raises difficulties, creating obstacles and then suffers from the perplexity of apparent paradoxes. Find out who makes the enquiries and the Self will be found.

hanss
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by hanss » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:36 pm

I talked to a woman a while ago about spirituality and the "spirit of nature". Then she asked me when I became a vegetarian. I answered that I am not, and love hamburgers, chicken and bacon. "Oh... I assumed..."
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
(Eckhart Tolle)

usernameless
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Re: Vegetarian

Post by usernameless » Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:29 am

People will gravitate towards things.
Vegetarianism.
Activism.
Hatha Yoga.
Sweat lodges.

That is fine. That is the way of the world.
But don't think for a moment - that Pure Consciousness (insert your preferred word here - or none at all)
depends on any of it - in order to awaken to itself.
We may want to believe that we are following a righteous and good cause - and it may well be - but neither
food, nor actions, nor way of thinking, nor tapasya, or any thing, can touch or influence Pure Consciousness.

For the simple reason that mind and body have nothing to do with Pure Consciousness. Nothing. They may
appear to - like I am going to Satsang and doing self-enquiry, in order to awaken - but they do not - as they
do not exist - only to the ajnani, the seeker in duality, do they appear to exist and be real.

In my opinion, I can understand why a teacher that is enlightened might say, that it is important, or even
essential, to be vegetarian - other teachers will not - but all know - if they are truly Self-realised - that
ultimately - it has nothing to do with whether one awakens or not. Any more than this or that sadhana,
this or that lifestyle, this or that living environment, etc;

The ajnani, who is still caught up in mind, may well be very adamant about it. They may well be very
upset when someone says otherwise. They may well look around in disgust at all who eat meat.
But it doesn't make it so.

I submit, that you will not find one true Jnani, when pressed, who will insist that being vegetarian
has any bearing on awakening and Self-realisation, or that it is any indication of living a good and
honest life. They may come from various traditions, and times in history, with various inclinations
and preferences, but none, when pressed (or without pressing), would insist on any link between
the two.

People are going to do what they are going to do. If you are drawn to being a vegetarian, than by all means.
But don't make the mistake of believing that one is necessary for the other. It absolutely is not.
There have been plenty of realised souls (of course I can't be sure can I - but follow me here for a moment)
who ate meat. Some were muderers. Some were womanisers and prostitutes. Some were warriors,
some were butchers, some were intellectuals, and others simple minded.

It's only when, we are overly identified with this or that cause, this or that lifestyle, when we are still caught in
dual mind, that we might take a strong stance on the importance of vegetarianism. It's understandable of course.
Killing animals to feed ourselves is not pleasant - particularly the way it is done in the industry.
They are living things - they feel fear, pain - they have a right to live peacefully.
It's probably the right thing to do - being a vegetarian - when you really look at.

But........
It still doesn't change the fact that it has no bearing on enlightenment - as Pure Consciousness has nothing to do
with body & mind. Now, a person may awaken, and be eating a hamburger, and you walk by and ask him how he
or she could do that. It's a feasible scenario. They can answer however they like - and you can disagree or agree.
But IF they are Self-realised - there would truly be nothing to say. They would be doing whatever they are appearing
to be doing - from the standpoint of the observer /ajnani - but for them there would be absolutely no sense of
an I chomping on a burger. That's how I envision it anyways.

ps. I often write in such a way that it appears that I think I know something - with large statements and assertions and the rest.
As though I am Self-realised, or speaking from experience.
I'm not, and I'm not. The overwhelming majority know that - but some still make the mistake of thinking that I
actually stand behind these posts - or that I think I am wise. Or that the posts should be taken seriously.
Some posts seem to want to stir the pot - many of mine seem to want to.
So take it with a grain of salt. It's just a fat slab of words.

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