The Evolutionary Leap

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The Evolutionary Leap

Postby heidi » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:27 am

So, In A New Earth, Tolle talks about the evolutionary leap that humankind may be taking in order to survive as a species. He used the example of water drying up and forcing some creatures to grow legs. What's your take on this leap? Maybe he talks about it more, but I haven't read (listened to) the whole book yet.

This is what that leap means to me. (I just wrote this in another topic but realized it's a topic all on its own. )
I think that personification of the divine - ego identification with the concept of diety (son of god and all) - is what has led humankind down a path of destruction where we have been destroying our environment and each other, and having little respect for all of the rest of Creation, as we seem to think that we are somehow the preferred species. I think that in The New Earth, the evolutionary leap (I got the CD and have only listened to one disk so far) that we as a species will be forced to take is that leap to the unmanifested so that we are no longer identified with thoughts that separate us from the rest of Creation. If this critical leap doesn't take place, then we snuff ourselves out having made our own environment uninhabitable for us and many other creatures.

So, what do you think?
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Postby spatialbean » Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:19 am

I think you are right Heidi.

A friend of mine talks about a concept called Spiral Dynamics and it is like a map of human developmental stages. At certain stages you cannot see beyond your own nose and unfortunately they make up a huge segment of the population. They haven't developed the empathy gene or whatever, to see that "if I do X it might hurt someone and I have felt pain and I don't want them to feel that".

Then once they make that leap, they would still have to make the leap to the non-human population, plant life and the planet itself as a living being.

I also think that it's a misunderstanding of abundance and God providing for all our needs, that we could just suck the life out of the planet and more would arrive.

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Postby heidi » Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:53 am

The abundance is there, we just need to honor it, be stewards of it; always give back.
Though it doesn't sound so "present" it's so true. Because past/present/future are all here right now : ‘We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.'
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Postby spatialbean » Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:25 am

Yeah Heidi, I think it is present, because if you are present you only take what you need, there is no greed or fear involved, no hoarding.

Our planet runs efficiently, it has for a gazillion years. It still could. There are washing machines that clean clothes with ozone, no detergents to harm the environment. There are cars that run on garbage or vegetable oil that don't pollute. Houses made of hay bales that don't use much fuel to cool or heat them. It's all there.
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Re: The Evolutionary Leap

Postby phil » Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:26 am

heidi wrote:So, In A New Earth, Tolle talks about the evolutionary leap that humankind may be taking in order to survive as a species. He used the example of water drying up and forcing some creatures to grow legs. What's your take on this leap?


Sometimes I think of it as...

Data, a natural element, moving through us like water does.

A race between two types of data, knowledge, and wisdom.

We develop knowledge as a group, over generations. Knowledge is very easily stored and transmitted to others. The more pieces of a jigsaw puzzle that are in place, the faster the puzzle is completed. Knowledge grows exponentially.

As knowledge multiplies itself, faster and faster, both our best and worst features are amplified. As the world gets worse, it also gets better. But we are at the point where just one bad day can sink the ship. Russian roulette.

Wisdom grows arithmatically, having to almost be rebuilt from the ground up in each person. We mostly learn wisdom from our own personal experience, thus the ability to build wisdom as a group effort is quite limited.

On the face of it, this is not happy math. I don't know where it all winds up.

heidi wrote:as we seem to think that we are somehow the preferred species.


As you know, you have my vote here.

And I can see where Christianity in particular, as wonderful as it is in some respects, does an awful lot of work towards dividing God, man, and nature in to different boxes. Not too helpful.

The "preferred species" bit reminds me of how we used to think the entire universe revolved around the earth, and thus us. A collective manifestation of the "me" best I can tell.

"We borrow it from our children..." Great quote Heidi, do you remember the source?
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Postby heidi » Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:30 am

Wise words from our forefathers. Indigenous peoples of this continent I live on. The People of the First Light. :) Now that's something my little mind likes to dientify (I'm not correcting that typo) with. he hee :) :)
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Postby phil » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:43 am

spatialbean wrote:There are washing machines that clean clothes with ozone, no detergents to harm the environment. There are cars that run on garbage or vegetable oil that don't pollute. Houses made of hay bales that don't use much fuel to cool or heat them. It's all there.


Power plants that run entire cities off the hot air generated by blowharding squirrels. We've only begun to tap in to the planet's natural energy sources. :-)
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Postby summer » Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:25 am

It is ironic that the notion of God has caused so much suffering on planet Earth. What so many of the religions claim to be "Our Saviour" is one of the roots of our delusion. And these same religions have caused most of the wars and bloodshed that we have witnessed for centuries, now.

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Re: The Evolutionary Leap

Postby Clare » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:56 pm

heidi wrote:I think that personification of the divine - ego identification with the concept of diety (son of god and all) - is what has led humankind down a path of destruction where we have been destroying our environment and each other, and having little respect for all of the rest of Creation, as we seem to think that we are somehow the preferred species.

So, what do you think?



I think we are too romantic about the natural world. Our selfishness, lack of foresight, territorial instincts, discrimination - all of these things derive from the code imprinted in all species on this planet that enables us to survive. Most animals operate entirely from what we would interpret as ego.

I would say that our understanding of divinity as part of our 'nature' - that we ARE Divine creators here, more than just flesh and bones that must be fed and sheltered and procreate - is the first step towards salvation, not destruction.

I have either a basic misunderstanding or a dichotomy - not sure which -between the ideas you suggest here, of personification (or egofication) of the Divine, and feeling that we should all be just a part of nature - as if 'nature' is the ideal. Nature is rich in its beauty, and, due to the lack of manipulation of the earth, it works like a Swiss watch - but it is brutal. It is what we came from, sure, but we CANNOT go back. The things we take with us derive from the time before when we were just surviving - eating or being eaten. The only reason it got dangerous was because we learndd how to manipulate nature. The minute we realised we could make fire we put ourselves in a different place from any other creature on this earth. We are all little Gods - whether we like it or not.

Almost as soon as I wrote my last post, I was rewarded with the a sight of a pair of Blue Tits in my garden (as in birds - it wasn't my neighbour hanging out her washing topless. Birds. Keep your bawdy comments to yourself whatdayasay?). It seems that between the nuts and scraps I leave out for them, the rosehips on my unpruned roses, and the firethorn berries, they have been able to feast over winter and are looking fat and healthy, which made me glad. But then I noticed they were acting all puffed up and aggressive. A few moments of observation and I was able to see that the pair of Blue Tits had another visitor - probably another male, and they were staking out the peanut net! I stood there shaking my head - why are they so possessive? There's more nuts than they could ever eat, and if they did manage it, I'd put out some more. They have enough - why wont they share?

So, I'm looking at the potential community of Blue Tits I have facilitated by providing food source and safe shelters in the middle of a city, and I watch them fight over something that belongs to all of them, and there is plenty of it. There is enough - they just don't know that there is enough.

I am not sure whether it's God or Eckhart or a planet of beings who hacked that man/ape's brain and put the "make fire" chip in it who are looking down on us and wondering the same thing. And if nothing is looking down on us - then the only God we do have is Us.

And nowadays there are so many of us, maybe there truly isn't enough anymore. Maybe we need to self-destruct to allow the earth to regenerate. Maybe that is part of the Plan.

Who's plan? Dunno. All I do know is that DNA is like a beautiful organic computer chip. Something must have programmed it. And if it did, the human programme incorporated understanding and wanting to meld divinity into their personal code of living and relating. There must be a reason why.

Love, Clare
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Re: The Evolutionary Leap

Postby phil » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:50 pm

Clare wrote:I think we are too romantic about the natural world. Our selfishness, lack of foresight, territorial instincts, discrimination - all of these things derive from the code imprinted in all species on this planet that enables us to survive. Most animals operate entirely from what we would interpret as ego.


Yea, Clare is back!

Great post Clare. Yes, too romantic about nature, I agree completely, while still regularly doing it myself.

It seems to me the romantic part is us looking at nature through our needs, and seeing our needs. This is not theory for me, I've done it personally a thousand times.

If we look at the word "Nature" as another more neutral word for "God" then it raises the question of whether we may look at spiritual issues from this same need based perspective.

As long as we still have needs, it seems quite likely to me that our vision will be clouded by them, thus building our spiritual perspectives on a foundation of "I really just don't know" seems wise. Core beliefs, not sunk in concrete.

Perhaps this problem arises from our desire to be Gods. That is, none of other creatures on the earth worry about the global picture or their collective future. (Score one for Lisa!)

Nature has given us the ability to take on this burden, so I guess we are respecting that gift by taking the burden on.

My guess is that we might carefully seperate the process of caring about the future from the future outcome itself.

That is, an activist can throw themselves in to the experience of getting up off the couch and getting involved in their community, without laying awake at night worrying about how effective they are.

Do our best, and forget the rest.

Great post Clare, let's see some more nature love debunking. I'm at the head of the line, awaiting your gift of freedom from the fog of romanticness.
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Postby heidi » Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:07 pm

Who's romanticising? We ARE part of nature, so of course we would romanticize in our egoic identififcation with it. :) :)
Clare:
Maybe we need to self-destruct to allow the earth to regenerate. Maybe that is part of the Plan.


Everything is as it should be. Which would also include us not going down without a fight - not going gentle into that good night :twisted:
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Postby be-lank » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:45 pm

Clare wrote:

So, I'm looking at the potential community of Blue Tits I have facilitated by providing food source and safe shelters in the middle of a city, and I watch them fight over something that belongs to all of them, and there is plenty of it. There is enough - they just don't know that there is enough.


Can we see perception at work here?
What if we stepped back and simply "looked."
What is we became this very "looking"?
What would we see then?

Beauty, peace, aliveness, stillness, sacredness, intensity- Our very Self.
We would see the divine love dance of what was happening with these birds in this moment. In the only moment there is.

We would see nature truly.

We would see Love.

For that is who we are.
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Postby Clare » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:16 pm

Can we see perception at work here?
What if we stepped back and simply "looked."
What is we became this very "looking"?
What would we see then?

Beauty, peace, aliveness, stillness, sacredness, intensity- Our very Self.
We would see the divine love dance of what was happening with these birds in this moment. In the only moment there is.

We would see nature truly.

We would see Love.

For that is who we are.


I could see the divine love dance in humans dropping bombs on eachother, or male lions killing and eating cubs when they take over the pride of another alpha male. or chimps clubbing to death an outsider in their tribe, or office workers denigrating eachother, or men brawling in a pub to impress a woman, or sharks eating eachother in the womb, or bigger kids bullying smaller kids, or wasp larvae eating live caterpillars slowly.

It could be looked upon as a Divine love dance, Lisa, all of it, you are right. I am not judging the behaviour of the birds, or of man/womankind or anything, I am simply making the connection that it all comes from the same place - an instinct to survive, to keep the "I" alive above all other things - ego.

I was pointing out that we often look to nature over God now, as if it is a utopia and paragon, when to me it is the very thing that gave us this need to be "I" in the first place. because we are still a part of nature,yes, and we have the same desire to survive at all costs.

That doesn't mean that I think it is bad. I just think us still having that going on when we can control so much is what is causing the things Eckhart and Heidi here is talking about. The only way we get away from that is to get away from that instinct. But let's not forget where it comes from. Not god- but nature. Our nature.
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Postby spatialbean » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:04 pm

I was pointing out that we often look to nature over God now, as if it is a utopia and paragon, when to me it is the very thing that gave us this need to be "I" in the first place. because we are still a part of nature,yes, and we have the same desire to survive at all costs.


But does it go so far as "I" must survive, or is it just "survive"?

I think (pffft) it's pre-thought. There isn't an "I" involved. Instinct is before thought, no thought involved, it's a response to something internal before thought becomes involved. So not egoic. To me, anyway.

When we begin to say something like "you have the oil we want so it's ok for you and your family to die" then it's egoic. There is a lot of space in between what you want and the thoughts you have and the actions you take. Space for choosing something else.

Just my take on things.

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Postby Clare » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:47 pm

Hi Claudia!

Certainly, I'd agree that we put a lot more thought and intelligence around these actions - simply because we have the capacity to do so, and this is part of what makes us so much more dangerous than other creatures on this planet. Of course, as we have evolved we have sophisticated it, but I don't feel that changes where the instinct comes from originally.

Let me scale it down to the men in pub brawling over a woman scenario. The instinct in that situation is to ususrp the weaker male so that the stronger one can fertilise the female, but of course we being humans, we don't see it that way. If you asked them, they'd probably put it down to emotional components of either anger at the other male's behaviour, or their protectiveness of the woman - Nobility- Honour: a lot of thought stuff. They'd even storytell to justify their actions. But the instinct is still there, we just get clever with it, is all.
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