EGO is present

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opt
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EGO is present

Post by opt » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:44 am

I am new here and have many questions, I have found some answers over my lifetime and am looking for more. I would not be able to define my level of awareness but much of ET's writing I have been exposed to in my own thoughts, in verying degrees...so I am interested in learning and experiencing more from anyone that cares to offer any of their thouhgt, experience or opinion.

I have found the information and views on EGO very valuable and has inspired me to seek more understanding. EGO's impact/ role in my life as well as the lives around me has been evident to me for some time but the exposure to ET's writings, which came about in a strange way, has keened my interest and maybe in some way attached some validity to my own ideas/ views.

Recently, I have come to realize a woman that has been a part of my life for several years has a significant tendency to focus on being better/ greater than others or make others lesser than. This came to the fore as we were reading/ studying A New Earth, the more we covered the more evident the egoic involvement became clear...maybe the most important was looking at my own EGO in the process. The EGO will not allow the relationship to continue but the increased awareness of self is huge.

Ken

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Re: EGO is present

Post by kiki » Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:08 pm

Welcome to the board, opt.
the more we covered the more evident the egoic involvement became clear...maybe the most important was looking at my own EGO in the process.

Good for you.

kiki
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: EGO is present

Post by opt » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:37 am

Thanks Kiki, it is good to be here.

You have pointed out my awareness of my own EGO and it's contribution to the situation...it seems to me that one needs to be able to see the intention of the EGO in the others we interact with as well as what is going on with our own, which of course is the main focus.

I find power/ control egoic intent is very common and when present the initiator sees others as if their EGO is of the same intent...would this be judgement based on a reality of pain or low self esteem?

Ken

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Re: EGO is present

Post by kiki » Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:50 am

I find power/ control egoic intent is very common and when present the initiator sees others as if their EGO is of the same intent...would this be judgement based on a reality of pain or low self esteem?
As phrased, your question is a little unclear to me, so I'll just say this for now:

Ego is intent on maintaining a separate sense of self, is intent on finding ways to keep itself cut off from wholeness and if it takes a case of low self esteem to do that then so be it. It doesn't matter one way or another to ego how it is kept active and separate as long as it is kept active and separate - low self esteem works just as well as high self esteem. When you see the dynamic of this within yourself you can see it more clearly in others. Ego in them is doing the same thing, so what you have are relationships and life being lived on a mental level as perceived through personalized egoic lenses rather than through a clarity of awareness. In most cases understanding of ego involvement comes after the fact when there is reflection upon events, but as awareness of presence deepens it is seen in the midst of events as those events unfold.

But once you see clearly within yourself the arising of ego as it happens you are less likely to get drawn into egoic entrapment by others. That is the "death knell" of attachment to ego, the spotting of it as it arises. This, of course, can be seen as threatening to other egos and very often they will look for ways to bait you back into old conditioned thinking just as a way of preserving their more familiar world. Egos are very adept at finding the right buttons to push in themselves and others so that the whole charade can continue, though they won't perceive it as a charade. They are convinced it's reality, but it's not.

It is clarity of awareness that ends the charade as it simply sees what's happening without judgment - there is just the recognition of what's going on and a shedding of the previous automatic reactions that flowed out of old conditioned thinking. There is the recognition that ego within oneself or others is looking for self-maintenance through power or control, or through self-enhancing thoughts or self-defeating thoughts - all of that becomes very clear on a very deep level, and there is the stepping away from that old conditioning. This is the bursting of the bubble of ego as it begins to form in the mind.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: EGO is present

Post by eyogateacher » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:32 am

Kiki

Thanks for the excellent explanation about how EGO works and how not to get trapped in it .

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Re: EGO is present

Post by opt » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:59 am

kiki wrote:Egos are very adept at finding the right buttons to push in themselves and others so that the whole charade can continue, though they won't perceive it as a charade. They are convinced it's reality, but it's not.
This has been apparent to me in the past and as my exposure to this work increases my clarity is improving...it is so well identified in one being conscious or unconscious.
kiki wrote:It is clarity of awareness that ends the charade as it simply sees what's happening without judgment
Is it possible to be without judgement?... or does the intent of the judgement determine it's state of acceptance?
kiki wrote:There is the recognition that ego within oneself or others is looking for self-maintenance through power or control, or through self-enhancing thoughts or self-defeating thoughts - all of that becomes very clear on a very deep level, and there is the stepping away from that old conditioning. This is the bursting of the bubble of ego as it begins to form in the mind.
I think the recognition of EGO in one's self and others around you does create a state of consciousnes which would allow one to live life successfully. As I gain more understanding of this dynamic my 'self' seems to improve on different levels..there is a price to be paid in a sense, as one becomes more aware there seems to be less involvement with others than there was in the past. This makes one more solitary but not necessarily alone.

Ken

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Re: EGO is present

Post by kiki » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:59 pm

Is it possible to be without judgement?...
Yes - the natural state of your true essence is simply awareness and when there is a resting in/as this natural state judgment doesn't arise - ego, the "judging entity", is gone and what's left is awareness, which judges nothing.
or does the intent of the judgement determine it's state of acceptance?
An "intent" of judgment arises out of some sort of conditioning that resides in the mind. Without that conditioning asserting itself there is just acceptance. Mind/ego can come in and make declarations that say, "I am not judging, I am accepting and allowing what is to be as it is," but that's just an interpretation of what's going on. In the midst of the actuality of what's happening, though, thoughts of judgment/not judgment don't arise.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: EGO is present

Post by opt » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:12 pm

kiki wrote:Mind/ego can come in and make declarations that say, "I am not judging, I am accepting and allowing what is to be as it is," but that's just an interpretation of what's going on. In the midst of the actuality of what's happening, though, thoughts of judgment/not judgment don't arise.
As I gain understanding do I not have to judge what you are saying as positive, valuable, accurate information...or not? If I am to not judge another's opinion/ view that what you are saying is wrong, untrue, of no value, I would be unfocussed, unsure, lost. But if I am to judge what you are saying as lacking understanding, it is not in agreement with me or differs from my view/ opinion, that would be unconscious intent of judgement resulting from me being egoicly challenged...do we not have to judge but be conscious that our judgements come from a 'zero' or healthy egoic state...how would I know what a good day was, if I couldn't see bad?

By the way, good morning Kiki and I appreciate your knowledge and understanding...thank you.

Ken

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Re: EGO is present

Post by kiki » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:20 pm

You won't know if what I am saying is true until you see it for yourself based on your own direct experience. I read about this from others more than 30 years ago and didn't really understand it until my ego was seen for the illusion that it is. Suddenly there was the seeing of the "me" getting created in the mind and the realization that "I" was what was seeing that mental creation. After that all those descriptions that I read about years ago made sense.

Right now you are caught up in a lot of thinking and it's that thinking that is blocking the seeing/realization. You are pure simplicity itself - awareness, while thinking is "complexity" arising within awareness, which only tends to detract attention away from the simplicity of awareness. Thinking has its place in the world of form, but thinking about this particular subject, especially in order to "get it", is just a lot of mental gymnastics that keeps you trapped in thought and ignorant of the formless dimension that is your true nature. Thought does little good in this one area of investigation unless it is used to turn awareness back onto itself, which is what Ramana's self-inquiry is about. As it is right now, your attention is focused on content of the mind rather than on the container or source of mind, awareness.

I suggest that you just stop looking for further explanations about it and simply rest in presence so that you can tune into clarity of awareness. It is that awareness that will reveal understanding. Go outside and "get lost" (egoically speaking) in the beauty around you. Pay more attention to what's present before your senses than what's in your mind - you don't have to know anything about what you see in order for it to be seen - just "see" it and discover that that's enough. The drive to know about it, while understandable from an egoic viewpoint, only gets in the way of realizing it. The drive and need to know is just another strategy employed by ego in order to delay the realization of what you are. It's OK not to know because you'll never get it through the mind. Being OK with not needing to know flies in the face of everything the ego and mind want but it is the basis of freedom and peace.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: EGO is present

Post by HermitLoon » Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:05 pm

Thank you Kiki - the clarity of your words is a great gift :D
Peace

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Re: EGO is present

Post by opt » Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:43 am

My own direct experience has validates most of what you have said, some of what you have said I am working on. 30 plus years ago I was searching much more than than understanding...although I was always in tune with nature and the environment around me but my understanding was lacking. As I have lived life, I have evolved my thought process and understand that thoughts are very complex...I agree that most of the problems one faces are perceptions we have created and if one can separate themselves from the 'chatter' of the mind a peaceful state can be achieved. I live in and focus on the presence of what is around me, especially nature, most of each day and I appreciate my opportunity to live this life...I value the formless dimension.

I don't need to know for egoic gratification, I want to know so that I can understand and achieve clarity in who I am. I respect your ability to live in a state of consciousness but for myself, and maybe others, journey to that level is a process and as we all have differences the path may have some different turns...as long as we are as conscious as is possible, on an individual basis, the healthy we will be collectively.

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Re: EGO is present

Post by the key master » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:04 pm

Hello opt,


Opt said,
I don't need to know for egoic gratification, I want to know so that I can understand and achieve clarity in who I am.

Who is it that wants to know? The essence of You, eternal consciousness, or ego? Can you be comfortable not knowing? I respect your desire to achieve clarity of your true essence, but just realize that egoic involvement is implicitly involved in early stages of awakening. Smile at it.

Best,
Jason

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Re: EGO is present

Post by opt » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:32 am

Hi Jason,

I don't know that I could idenify a part of who I am that is interested in understanding...I know that EGO is present at all times and in my quest for understanding how what ET has written works with my Self, my egoic state is quite neutral.

If it were not for thought and a desire to understand, I would not be here...I know how the 'chatter' of much of one's thought is an obstruction to clarity and consciousness but, I believe, thought/ mind is also a gift that is necessary in achieving Awareness.

I can be very comfortable not knowing most of my thoughts but thoughts about how my EGO is involved, at any given time, or the what dynamics are involved in the egoic environment around me...one has to think to know they are Aware. I can Be with no thought.

Thank you, Jason, I appreciate and value your views/ opinions whether you agree or disagree.

Ken

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Re: EGO is present

Post by kiki » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:52 am

I don't know that I could idenify a part of who I am that is interested in understanding...
Perhaps you can't identify that part because it doesn't exist outside of some concept that is arising in the mind that constantly changes. Look for that which doesn't change - what is found that never changes? Is it in the mind or in that which watches mind? What is its nature? Can there be a simple relaxing and resting in what is found? Discovering "that" and realizing that that is what you are is what awakening is about.
I know that EGO is present at all times and in my quest for understanding how what ET has written works with my Self, my egoic state is quite neutral.
Are you sure ego is present at all times?
If it were not for thought and a desire to understand, I would not be here...I know how the 'chatter' of much of one's thought is an obstruction to clarity and consciousness but, I believe, thought/ mind is also a gift that is necessary in achieving Awareness.
Mind/thought is a tool that enables us to function in the world of form, but it isn't necessary in achieving awareness, which is formless. You can't achieve what you already are - you ARE awareness. Mind arises out of awareness; you must see this for yourself. If awareness precedes mind then "you" cannot be anything that is found in the mind. You, therefore, have to be something prior to the mind. What that is can be realized but it cannot be arrived at through thinking - all there is is the seeing of it, the realization that it's already here fully right now.
I can be very comfortable not knowing most of my thoughts but thoughts about how my EGO is involved, at any given time, or the what dynamics are involved in the egoic environment around me...one has to think to know they are Aware. I can Be with no thought.
Be comfortable being in a state of "not knowing", of not having to know something, of not resorting to a reliance on mind to simply "be" - it takes no thought to "be". The dynamics of the egoic environment, both within and without, are seen through/by awareness itself. When there is a recognition that ego has somehow come in that recognition comes from the silent and still background of knowingness/awareness, the real you.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: EGO is present

Post by opt » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:22 am

kiki wrote:Perhaps you can't identify that part because it doesn't exist outside of some concept that is arising in the mind that constantly changes
Perhaps, but doesn't one have to have the strength/ presence of mind to find balance in order to be aware of the changes?
kiki wrote:Are you sure ego is present at all times?
Yes, I believe that when EGO is in a neutral/ zero state when not in a superior or inferior state, but is present always.
kiki wrote:You can't achieve what you already are - you ARE awareness. Mind arises out of awareness; you must see this for yourself. If awareness precedes mind then "you" cannot be anything that is found in the mind. You, therefore, have to be something prior to the mind. What that is can be realized but it cannot be arrived at through thinking - all there is is the seeing of it, the realization that it's already here fully right now.
If one is formless/ aware in a natural state then form can only be created when the natural state is altered by the mind... if the formless/ natural state is to be reestablished, form has to be identified by the mind through thought.
opt wrote:The dynamics of the egoic environment, both within and without, are seen through/by awareness itself.
Can awareness determine the state ot the egoic environment without thought/ mind? If to Be is being in a state of thoughtlessness and one was to remain in a state of being,they would not have thought again until they cease to Be...is this correct?

Ken

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