Isn't Discussion Generating More Thinking?

Talk about anything Tolle-related here.
sevenworlds
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Re: Isn't Discussion Generating More Thinking?

Post by sevenworlds » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:14 am

It's one thing to say that but does it operate in an individuals life? To look at your father/son/partner and not know what you are looking at. It reminds me of a story UG Krishnamurti told about the scientists who came to see him. They would often agree intellectually with what he was saying, that there is no time and no space, and they could rationalise it through their theories. He would then stop them dead in their tracks by saying "If you really know that to be true, what does that mean when you are making love to your wife?".

lucy
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Re: Isn't Discussion Generating More Thinking?

Post by lucy » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:53 am

sevenworlds wrote: He would then stop them dead in their tracks by saying "If you really know that to be true, what does that mean when you are making love to your wife?".
lol 7worlds . I guess it would be a very satisfying form of masturbation.

.
sevenworlds wrote:It's one thing to say that but does it operate in an individuals life?
It can't possibly operate in an individual's life because there is no individual having a life; The question itself is based on a false assumption. As long as the individual is granted some reality, suffering is held in place.
sevenworlds wrote:To look at your father/son/partner and not know what you are looking at.
You may not know what you are looking at but you know that what you are looking at is YOU. When all sense of separation disappears it has to be YOU.

Mina
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Re: Isn't Discussion Generating More Thinking?

Post by Mina » Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:23 pm

Hello everyone,

Just registered here and saw the question of 'discussion generating more thinking?'

It seems that this does not have to be the case. As is seen here, discussion, if/when it is moving in thought only (which means the thinker moves under the illusion it is separate from thought), can only generate more thought.

But there can also be perception/intelligence present, words appearing as part of it, as one with it. In that case discussion can be different, not analytical, not leading to more concepts, but on the contrary it can softly tenderly be part of the undoing of all identification with thought.

****

You might wonder if the above is "just more thought". It is irrelevant what I would answer to it, because the answer lies in the reader. Receive it in wholeness and it is it. Receive it in thought, and it becomes "more words".

Amazing the power of transformation that lies within each of us. It is never "what the other says or is", it is what we ourselves are which is discovered to be the whole of existence, embracing, including all others.

Greeting all of you in silent gratitude for the Gift of Life

sevenworlds
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Re: Isn't Discussion Generating More Thinking?

Post by sevenworlds » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:28 pm

lucy wrote:lol 7worlds . I guess it would be a very satisfying form of masturbation.
:) Yes, I said that to someone else - the world is basically masturbating itself. I think they were turned on by that.
lucy wrote:It can't possibly operate in an individual's life because there is no individual having a life; The question itself is based on a false assumption. As long as the individual is granted some reality, suffering is held in place.
I only used the word "individual" there for the purposes of communication.
lucy wrote:You may not know what you are looking at but you know that what you are looking at is YOU. When all sense of separation disappears it has to be YOU.
I know what you're saying but I wouldn't necessarily put it that way. This whole thing about the world being You is often misunderstood. Like "the world is an illusion", it tends to be intellectually claimed as some sort of fact because it's such a common phrase now.

There is no boundary where my body ends and anything else I am looking at begins. Nothing in me tells me this is my body and yet I still know it is my body when I need to. If someone is sitting next to me or my hand is resting on the sofa, it is all one scene. The only indication of MY body are the points of contact. If I tap my chest right now with my hand while looking straight ahead, I can feel the touch at that point, but that is all. I cannot picture what my chest looks like, it's as if I'm tapping nothing and yet I feel a sensation. I cannot picture what the back of me looks like either. It is almost like I am flat. I can tap the back of my head, which indicates there is something there but as soon as I remove my hand, I am back to square one. I cannot build an image of myself anymore and so I cannot even say what I am looking at is myself. I don't know what I'm looking at. I could be looking at a woman but nothing inside recognises "woman" or even says "you are looking at yourself" unless I need to know it is a "woman" for some reason.

I'm probably off-topic again... :)

lucy
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Re: Isn't Discussion Generating More Thinking?

Post by lucy » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:52 pm

Mina wrote:You might wonder if the above is "just more thought". It is irrelevant what I would answer to it, because the answer lies in the reader. Receive it in wholeness and it is it. Receive it in thought, and it becomes "more words".

Amazing the power of transformation that lies within each of us. It is never "what the other says or is", it is what we ourselves are which is discovered to be the whole of existence, embracing, including all others.
Yes. I totally agree and welcome to the board Mina.
sevenworlds wrote:This whole thing about the world being You is often misunderstood. Like "the world is an illusion", it tends to be intellectually claimed as some sort of fact because it's such a common phrase now.
That is very true. I think there is a tendency in the beginning to fall into the "nonduality speak" without really stopping to verify it for "oneself". That certainly was the case here for many years, but once it is seen that everything occurs at zero distance from this Awareness (Douglas Harding's words) clairty takes place and a kind of an expansion occurs. At least that was the case here, I'm not saying contraction can't occur, but "I" find that this is the case as long as there is no identification taking place with the "thought bubbles" arising. The conceptulization of "everything is one" has to bypassed for the truth of these words to emerge.

Mina
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Re: Isn't Discussion Generating More Thinking?

Post by Mina » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:18 pm

Dear Lucy,

The eye caught a few sentences from you yesterday and the depth of what your words (and beyond) conveyed, was immediately felt, in "total agreement."


lucy wrote:You may not know what you are looking at but you know that what you are looking at is YOU. When all sense of separation disappears it has to be YOU.
Right, wonderfully said. There is the realisation there is only one and that One is what you are. Fascinating.

Peaceman
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Re: Isn't Discussion Generating More Thinking?

Post by Peaceman » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:16 pm

don't see how it can happen the way Tolle says. You can't carry on living the way you did and have This at the same time
What is "This" sevenworlds?

sevenworlds
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Re: Isn't Discussion Generating More Thinking?

Post by sevenworlds » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:20 am

Whatever is left when all of 'that' is gone.

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eagle2phoenix
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Re: Isn't Discussion Generating More Thinking?

Post by eagle2phoenix » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:43 am

Shouldn't be saying this but anyway who cares ~ this is an interesting, enlightening thread, bringing the different colours of the rainbow together. And when different colours of the rainbow come together, we get white.

This thread reminds me of what I felt some time ago ~ that I am but a cell in this gigantic being, minding my own business. My very existence is to be that cell (may it be a red blood cell or a white blood cell or a cell that is part of an organ, etc.) and my role is to do what the cell is supposed to do. All of you folks and the rest of the world make up the rest of the body fluids or organs or bones etc. The Government - ah, they think they are the brains of the people, thinking up plans, budgets, policies. The Religions and its leaders think that they are the heart, pumping blood, oxygen and food all over the body. The spiritual masters - well, they can be anything in the body (often they are just another ordinary cell). Now all in all, the people are just cells that form the different parts of the greater body. Some cells glow, others do not, some are healthy, some are inflicted with disease and become cancerous but still live in the body, some die and get flushed out, some die and gets stuck on some parts of the body only to form a cyst or gangrene. But the body continues to function as it is. This gigantic being lives in spite of it all. What makes it so? What causes all these cells to stick together and function as one body?

So now this cell (me) is suddenly enlightened. From an ordinary cell, I am now enlightened to see everything as they are. But hang on for a moment, I am still just an ordinary cell, doing my part.

I love science fiction stories because they are often "spiritual", far flung from reality, so spacious. And perhaps that is all what we are. Tiny speckles of atoms floating around, held together in place by some powers that be. Men in Black.

Is this a thought form? No, it is just describing what I once felt this reality is all about.

So isn't discussion generating more thinking? Like doesn't heat and condensation generate more clouds and precipitation (rain)? More importantly, is this thinking with or without awareness?

Love & Light
Life is fascinating. Nature is beautiful. Live life with nature.

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